Best DCC

[robengland]

One more thought that I have shared in other threads: I work in software, and I can tell you that fewer and fewer people are buying corporate software based on the features. More important is the vendor and the market share: how easy is it to find expertise? how many other people can I talk to about it? how many third-party add-ons are there? hwo long will the company be in business in case I need support or parts or additional gear?

I bought Digitrax. There are some things about it I don't like, especially less intuitive controls (I have to have the manual handy to do much of anything) and inconsistency between devices (knowing how to use a DT300 tells you very little about how to use another Digitrax throttle). But I knew that before I bought it. I bought because:
- more third-party add-ons
- more info and discussions on the Web
- first system the freeware is targeted at
- successful company (far as I know)
- most folk around here use it

Think of IBM vs Digital or Microsoft vs just about everyone else, or VHS vs Betamax. I bet all those folk who bought VAX/VMS or OS2 or Ashton Tate are not so happy now. The best technology seldom wins (if ever). And you don't need the best: you need what works, what it is easy to find out about when it doesn't, and what will be available for a long time to come

[JerryZeman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by backpackingnn

For everyone who has tried multiple DCC systems, or have heard, what do you think the best DCC system would be? If I were to run about 5 locos, the size of a bedroom layout, and have alot of accessories. I need an opinion of someone who knows quite a bit about this. Thanks

You will find loyalists for all of the systems currently available. I can't give you an unbiased opinion, as I run NCE, and like it.

From what you describe, most manufacturers have systems that will meet your needs. I'm curious about you comment of "accessories". What accessories are you going to run? What scale do you model in? I have a basement sized layout, and with the exception of switch machine decoders on my new extension, I don't run any accessories. If I was starting from scratch, I don't even think I would automate my turnouts, I think I would go with a manual system such as described by Gerry Leone in a recent MR article. Much simpler, cheaper, and more interaction with the railroad for the operator. If you are running a modern CTC railroad, then this perception may change, but I doubt it if you are running a bedroom sized pike.

Go operate as many systems you can get your hands on, and make the decision based on your own preferences. The things that I like about NCE is the ease of decoder programming, ease of building consists, and the choices available for different throttles and remotes.

regards,
Jerry

[Anonymous]

Guy,

No need to duck for cover! Your post is very helpful. I don't think you flamed NCE, in fact you discussed what you consider NCE's good points, but talked about what you see as a negative in the wireless. That's something a person may or may not be able to find out by themselves.

It is posts like yours that are very helpful. You have experience with two systems and pointed out some good things and bad things on both and why you prefer one over the other ie: why that system is best for you.

I've never considered Easy DCC, so I'll to check that out and add to the list of potential units should I decide to go the DCC route.

Thanks!

Dave

[Anonymous]

Picking a DCC system is a personal thing. I think that you should try as many systems as you can before deciding which to buy. The previous post about going with what the local guys use (presuming that they nare honest, and they like their system) is also worthy of consideration.

I tried several systems and settled on Easy DCC. I especially like the wireless throttles. They use a knob instead of buttons for speed control and are very reliable. The previous poster who was having to use two steps to enter 4 digit addresses was using the old system. Using the current handheld or command station, I punch in the address, wait 10 seconds (wireless), and I'm off and running. The tech support is great (they fixed a throttle my neighbor's kid broke free of charge) and the system really is easy to set up and run.

The downside to this system is there are no frills on the wireless handhelds and there is no two-way communication between the wireless handheld and the base station like some other systems use. By this I mean the handheld unit does not get updates from the base station and while it does tell you which direction the loco is going and its speed (by physical knob position and LEDs) it won't tell you which functions are on or other info (you can check this on the base station). I don't need this feature (two way updating) and I have seen it cause problems with other DCC systems when the reception in the room is less than perfect. For example in the NCE system my friend has, the wireless hand held sends a new command to the base station and then waits for an update from the station before showing the new command on the throttle. If the signal should get lost by the station or not be received due to reception problems, the handheld won't be updated. The user may not be able to tell if the command station received the new command and is responding slowly or if it has been lost and needs to be re-sent. I have had situations where I sent a reverse direction order twice and ended up going the same direction because the station saw both signals when I thought it only saw one...This doesn't happen with the EASY DCC wireless because although it is spartan, the knob always shows speed and the direction is indicated by LEDS on the hand held which show which direction command the throttle is sending to the base Station.

The above is not intended to start a flame war with NCE users. I have seen NCE systems work perfectly and it is quality gear. I am pointing out the differences between the design of the systems. I like being able to see all the cool stuff on the the handheld that NCE has, I just liked the feel and simplicity of the EASY DCC system better than NCE and other systems.

I would also suggest that you avoid sets that are not able to be expanded. You will love DCC (hopefully) and probably will want to expand at some point. Some of these sets scrimp on features that make DCC so cool (consisting, 4 digit addresses, not enough function buttons, no wireless capability etc)

Ducking for cover,

Guy

[NZRMac]

I have just bought a Lenz compact, it's all in one system for $120 us $180 New Zealand and it does all the basics including sound. when I expand I can add to it, control turnouts, etc it's not portable but I could use it for yards. It's the boosters that add more amperage i.e more loco's lighting etc. add as many or as few as you want!! any base system, if that's your budget, is alot better in my opinion than all that block wiring and switches!!!

Ken

[rrinker]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dehusman

Lenz is also a very good system. I have not used it personally, but I know someone who does and is very satisfied with it (he used to design hump yard control systems and is an excellent er so I take his recommendation at face value).

Before you buy a cheap system, think about the cost of upgrading. Why spend $150-200 two or three times when you can spend it once and have all the features NOW.

And by the way, radio throttles are waaaay cool. No cords to trip over, you can follow your train wherever it goes, no fighting for the two plugs at the yard, no cost of putting in a throttle bus (unless you want the backup capability).

Best bet, try to meet some people and get some throttle time with various systems. Ask around at hobby shops. Join some of the Yahoo groups for the various systems and read the issues, ask around if there are people in your area with systems you can try out (each system has its apostles who are eager to convert others to their system<G>).

Dave H.

This is why those of us with Digitrax like it so much. We CAN start with a basic $150 system, but it expands with the layout, it's not $150 down the drain when we realize we need a more powerful system.

That's also the point I keep trying but apparantly failing to make in the Bachmann thread. Sure, it's only $53 street price, but it appears to have NO expansion, so if you need more than 1 amp, or more than one throttle, you are stuck with a white elephant. I believe you can expand the Atlas system with Lenz components without ending up with much useless stuff as well.

[dehusman]

Lenz is also a very good system. I have not used it personally, but I know someone who does and is very satisfied with it (he used to design hump yard control systems and is an excellent er so I take his recommendation at face value).

Before you buy a cheap system, think about the cost of upgrading. Why spend $150-200 two or three times when you can spend it once and have all the features NOW.

And by the way, radio throttles are waaaay cool. No cords to trip over, you can follow your train wherever it goes, no fighting for the two plugs at the yard, no cost of putting in a throttle bus (unless you want the backup capability).

Best bet, try to meet some people and get some throttle time with various systems. Ask around at hobby shops. Join some of the Yahoo groups for the various systems and read the issues, ask around if there are people in your area with systems you can try out (each system has its apostles who are eager to convert others to their system<G>).

Dave H.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by qwerty1


Also why do people downgrade a system because it doesn't have four-digit addressing.
How many people have over a hundred locos, how many have 9999 locos.

they're not downgrading, just showing it as a negitive feature. 4 digit addressing allows you to use the full engine number as the decoder address, which makes it easy to remember what a loco's number is by just looking at it. so if you have a loco number 1204, in 2 digit systems you have to choose what address to use, if you choose 04 (the last 2 digits) and you have a 1304 on your roster, what do you do? either renumber the loco or choose some obscure number and hope you remember it.

whereas with 4 digit numbering, you can use all 4 digits and set all your loco's to their on the model numbers, so you can now have 1204 and 1304 stored for easy recall by just looking at them.

Yes you will never have 9999 Engines to run, but you may have 20-30 that are classified by their numbers. example: steamers usually were classified by type (4-4-0) and builder (baldwin) such that you had each type assigned to a number group (100-199, 1200-1500, ect) and builders were assigned subsets in that grouping (xx00-xx50 being baldwin, xx51-xx99 being Lima). deisels bing more uniform in nature don't really ahve wide varieties needing classification groupings, but durning the transition era, even deisels were classified into a number group.

By using 4 digit numbering you are able to accuratly reproduce classifications and make identifying what loco you need to hurry up and take over a breeze.

[Anonymous]

What about the smaller systems like Prodigy and Atlas?
When clinchvalley said to choose the right system for you, I thought he was including every system. I've chosen Prodigy for my small layout because it is easy to understand and inexpesive(compared to NCE). It has consisting, cable throttles and two systems can be lashed together for 8 throttle operation.
Also why do people downgrade a system because it doesn't have four-digit addressing.
How many people have over a hundred locos, how many have 9999 locos.
thats what I thought.

[ClinchValleySD40]

Understand not having anyone else close by. But you should consider a trip to Dallas. I know for sure of some really nice model railroads there and all different types of systems.
How I chose my system. First thing to do is join all the various yahoo chat groups, there is at least one for each system. Lurk, don't say a word. Just see what people are posting about problems and such. You'll be amazed. If one system seems to have too many problems, eliminate it from consideration. Join the Op Sig list. People there love to have visitors, if you're traveling ask for an invite and check out the systems.
Do not buy a system just because others in your group/area have it. I didn't and glad I didn't. They all complain about problems which I do not have. I've also convinced a few to switch. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Jay,

Makes sense. I don't know if I'm ready to go the DCC route yet (who's kidding who - I'll get one before I know it!), but I was basically responding to a poster that asked why ask the forum about the various DCC systems, just go out and check them all out. Doing that is not always possible. But you make a very valid point, Jay, getting what others have in one's area gives you an instant support group.

dgoodlander

Nice to see someone who can say there is something not perfect about his own system! Seems that in the past a topic like this would be filled with negative comments about systems other than the poster's.

Markie,

I would also like to see some input from someone that has experience with the Lenz system. I am particularly attracted to the rotary dial on the 90. I've used a dial for over 30 years and don't know if I could change lol. Guess I'm turning into an old fart!

[Anonymous]

I currently have a Digitrax Super Empire Builder, no problems to speek of. However, after having the opportunity to use a NCE Pro, I would have rather spent the extra money and went with the NCE system. I found the hand held throttle much more user friendly. I don't care for the Digitrax DT400 throttle, especially the rubber buttons.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dkelly

where I live there is only one hobby shop that has trains and the owner pretty much knows everyone in town that does the mrr thing. As far as he know, there are only a handful of folks out here that have dcc and all have digitrax.

Well, based on that little bit of information, if you plan on working with the others in your area (club or just on friendly terms) then i'd suggest going with the flow of the area and get Digitrax, sounds like you have a good support group around if you have problems.

If you were to get a NCE or Lenz system, you'd be very frustrated if you ran into something you didn't understand and there's no one nearby to show you how to get past it.

Now mind you, i'm not fond of the Digitrax systems, but when it's pretty much the only DCC System in use in your community, it's probably a good idea to follow suit if you plan to run sessions with them (bring your own throttle deals).

[Anonymous]

clinchvalley,

That would be the ideal situation. But where I live there is only one hobby shop that has trains and the owner pretty much knows everyone in town that does the mrr thing. As far as he know, there are only a handful of folks out here that have dcc and all have digitrax. The nearest real "train store" is about a six hour drive from here (Lubbock to Dallas). Also, sometimes even if you play with each system for a while, hearing someone's comments on problems they ran into or "hiddgen" good things are invaluable.

[ClinchValleySD40]

Why ask others that have used all the different systems what they think? You should go out and try them all yourself and see which fits your needs. All of the systems are very good and differences come down to a matter of personal like/don't like. Nobody on this forum can tell you which is best for you and asking which is best is like asking which is better, Ford, GM, Chrysler or import. Very hot topic.

[Anonymous]

What about the Lenz 90 and 100 systems. At one time they were rated user friendly, price is comparable to Digitrax Chief and much less than NCE. I hope to buy a system in the not too distant furture and Lenz was the direction that I was leaning. Any insight would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Mark
http://webusers.warwick.net/~u1015590/

[Anonymous]

The best DCC system is what feels comfortable in your hand, seems easy to use for you and is in the right price range for what you can afford.

Please got to http://tonystrains.com/ and check out all the various system and what they have, narrow the list down to 2 or 3 sets you think you'd like and then see if you can find either a store, club or members in your area using those stems and check the systems out before you buy.

An informed buyer is a happy buyer, buy what is right for you not what is right for me (which was NCE BTW)

[Anonymous]

What Simon said. [:)] I chose the Digitrax Zephyr for pretty much the same reason -- great starting kit at a reasonable price, with a lot of power and features hidden under the hood. Once I get my layout in full operation, it'll be easy to expand with hand-held throttles and additional boosters as I need them.

And I didn't find the manuals very confusing, but then again I've been a computer professional for 20+ years, so in the scheme of things they're better than some other software manuals I've come across. And their decoder programming manual is worth having (you can download it from their web site) even if you don't use Digitrax decoders, because it as very good explanations of the common CVs.

[simon1966]

Hi Backpackingnn

Welcome to the forum. Use the advanced search feature of the forum and search the Model RR forum over the last 6 months for DCC and you will find several similar threads. My non scientific analysis of these threads is that the NCE crowd is very passionate about the system. The Digitrax crowd is more numerous but not as vocal.

The main complaints you will see leveled at Digitrax are complex and confusing throttles (Clearly a problem in the past, but the DT400, the new UT4 and the Zephyr control panel are much improved), and poor documentation. This may well be true and I can not comment as I have not read the NCE documentation. I have a Zephyr and have had no problems at all with interpreting the manual.

I chose Digitrax because I wanted an end point of a sophisticated system incorporating wireless, signalling and PC control. However, I did not want to get to this point immidiately for budget reasons. So for me the Zephyr was an excellent starting point. I also wanted a DCC system that was very simple to use and operate. Both my 4 and 7 year olds run the Zephyr without any problem. My Zephyr is now doing duty as a yard booster and controller and I have added other Digitrax parts found cheap on e-bay to add a main line booster and an Infra red wireless DT400 throttle. These items were integrated into the layout with ease and have added much enjoyment.

If you want to jump right in and get everything up front, then the NCE is clearly a system deserving of your serious consideration. The Digitrax equivalent would be a Super Chief. Your layout is a similar size to mine, so if you want to go for the building block approach, then Digitrax is an excellent choice. The bottom line is that these are 2 excellent systems, made and supported by good manufacturers that both listen to customers and improve their systems. You may well find that passions run high on this issue!

[dehusman]

I have operated on several layouts using Digitrax, Easy DCC and NCE. The different Digitrax throttles had no consistency between the labels on the buttons and what they did. They were very hard to figure out.

Easy DCC is very easy, but the systems I operated with had had only 2 digit addressing and the ones with 4 digit addressing required a 2 step process to enter an engine number.

At a large meet the Easy DCC and Digitrax guys had extensive discussions of problems they were having when you get over 8 radio throttles working at the same time. Didn't really understand it because I mostly operate on NCE and haven't had that problem with NCE.

The only issue I have had with NCE systems is that they allow only 1 base station for radio operation so if you have a large unusually shaped basement with lots of alcoves and interior walls, it can kill the signal in certain areas. A friend of mine used metal studs in his basement and in one spot the studs in the utility room wall form a perfect line to the radio reciever, so he has a spot, step one step backwards and it ooperates fine.

Dave H.

[davekelly]

Would it perhaps be more helpful is people listed the pros and cons of the system they used and why they thought the good things outweighted the negatives?

[Anonymous]

I agree with Robert Knapp's accessment of Digitrax's wireless being terrific. My club has used it for at least the last six years that I know of. The most important thing to any DCC though, is how "User Friendly" they are when it comes to programming. Digitrax I would guess is about as easy as any other and I know that as it has evolved that it has gotten easier to operate. However, I am not sure that one should base their desires on just one aspect of the system but rather on more practical things like needs and financial limitations. Therefore, the only one who can tell you what is best is you(or your club)is you. And that is why there are so many choices in capabilities and pricing. And why there are standards for the manufacturers to follow. My only advice to you would be to purchase one that can be easily expanded (like adding a booster for more power to operate more trains) and/or updated. Otherwise you will be throwing good money after bad to replace outdated or in-adaquate equipment. But, in any case, DCC is the way to go.

[dehusman]

The best DCC is NCE.

Dave H.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Robert Knapp

When my club was building a new layout, we decieded to use DDC. We had many members researching various companies(cost, options ,expandability, throttle options and ease of use) Radio and infared. Lenz and Digitrax had met us for demos. We went with Digitrax. Since this is the only system I am familiar with, you will have to weigh all the choices- as I believe many replies naming other brands will follow. If you would like untethered walk-around the DT400 radio throttle is fantastic. WE had many sceptics at first, but now after 8 years since our choice, not one of the 50+ members would do without DCC.
I am not into all the techical "stuff", just leave that to the Electrical Commitee. I am anxious to see where this thead goes- Hear more about other systems and thier recommendations.
Bob K.

Wow, Its funny how the story of the club I belong too, and your club are similar. But after checking out Digitrax, we went with NCE, and have not had any complaints for the last 8 years. The Manual was in English , not techese, and the technical support from Jim and the gang at NCE has been phenomanal! The have repaired our dropped (ooopps) [:0] throttles , upgraded some members radios and have given us protection circuits for our command stations, all at no charge. And we never needed an "electrical comittee" to keep our stuff going! [}:)]

BTW, Dale Jr ROCKS!!!!!!!!!

[bogp40]

When my club was building a new layout, we decieded to use DDC. We had many members researching various companies(cost, options ,expandability, throttle options and ease of use) Radio and infared. Lenz and Digitrax had met us for demos. We went with Digitrax. Since this is the only system I am familiar with, you will have to weigh all the choices- as I believe many replies naming other brands will follow. If you would like untethered walk-around the DT400 radio throttle is fantastic. WE had many sceptics at first, but now after 8 years since our choice, not one of the 50+ members would do without DCC.
I am not into all the techical "stuff", just leave that to the Electrical Commitee. I am anxious to see where this thead goes- Hear more about other systems and thier recommendations.
Bob K.

[Anonymous]

Oh boy. Did you open a can of worms lol. Check out the two topics here discussing the Bachmann DCC system. It seems that the DCC folks are just as loyal to systems as Jeff Gordan/Dale Earnhardt fan are lol. (For real fun read the MTH DCS threads that have been hot and heavy this last month lol).

Hopefully folks that respond to this thread (I'm not a DCC guy, but have read numerous threads and a bazillion posts about it) will tell you the pros and cons of the systems they have used in such a way that you can make an objective decision. From everything I've learned, there is no "best system." Each manufacturer and each system that they make have their good and bad sides to include: number of engines that can be controlled at one time, accessories that can be run, number of functions etc etc etc. Take posts that blast other systems with a grain of salt. For everyone that hates (pick one) Digitrax, NCE, CVP, MRC, Bachmann, etc. there is someone that will swear by it.

I am eagerly awaiting the posts here!!

[Anonymous]

For everyone who has tried multiple DCC systems, or have heard, what do you think the best DCC system would be? If I were to run about 5 locos, the size of a bedroom layout, and have alot of accessories. I need an opinion of someone who knows quite a bit about this. Thanks