That is the question.
Does it matter?
Should the fastest loco go first, or should the slowest loco go first.
What if your consist is ABBA or ABA and one or both of the B units is faster?
Looking for opinions to the point of debate.
Rich
Alton Junction
If you're using DCC and can speed-match your engines relatively well, then do that and you're probably not going to have a problem.
But, it's not an ideal world, is it? Put the fastest engine in front. What you want is to have the front engine's coupler pulling on the second engine's coupler, and so on, so that the string of couplers remains under tension. What you don't want is to have any of the couplers under compression, because that makes them more likely to pop apart.
Most of the time, it will not matter. The last engine will be slowed by the weight of the train. So, even if it's faster than the lead engine in a no-load test, it will be slowed down enough that the lead engine will still be pulling against the coupler link.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
My locos are all about 1 smph or less within each other for the class of locos that get MUd. So, it doesn't really matter. But, back before DCC speed matching I would put the fastest in front to help through switches and avoid derails. I would not put 2 locos together that are significantly different in speed as it's not good on either loco or the track. For example, no sense in sliding wheels.
Richard
Of course you need to speed match them as best you can - but one will always be faster than the other.
My thought is to have the slowest one first. This way, the couplers between the units are always compressed. With the faster one first, it will be trying to pull away off and on and bang back and forth with the second unit.
Now that probably doesn't mean a hill of beans, but if I had to pick one or the other, the slower one would be first.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
I'm not sure it matters at all. The way operations work on my layout, a consist is as likely to run one direction as the other, so the slightly faster loco spends about half its time leading, the other half trailing. I haven't noticed there really being a performance issue either way.
Rob Spangler
It only makes a difference when running the Loco's by themselves. Once a load is put on, unless they are grossly mismatched they should all be pulling.
Just my observations.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
If you put the slowest one in front they will never uncouple.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
I like the faster one in front if there is a small difference ... but I thought the original poster had DCC. Why not just speed match them?
Sure you can speed match them, but they are really never run absolutely perfect same speeds, from speed step one, to full throttle.
I found if the slowest loco is in front, it binds on the couplers around curves. So I put the faster loco in front.
Also when pulling a long consist the weight of the train evenly distributes out the tension on the consisted locos.
Michael
CEO- Mile-HI-RailroadPrototype: D&RGW Moffat Line 1989
I believe He said that ABBA,consist,that the B's were faster,that the A's,so he would have to have,BBAA, NO!? Or, AABB ?
Could not restrain myself, any longer.
Cheers,
Frank
zstripeI believe He said that ABBA,consist,that the B's were faster,that the A's,so he would have to have,BBAA, NO!? Or, AABB ?
If you read closely, that was just theoretical. In any case, why does the OP not use his DCC to speed match?
alco_fan why does the OP not use his DCC to speed match?
why does the OP not use his DCC to speed match?
I actually did, alco_fan, but even with speed matching, one seems to outgain the other just a little bit, so I wanted to find out what others do.
alco_fanIf you read closely, that was just theoretical. In any case, why does the OP not use his DCC to speed match?
Alco Fan
Just how close can you yourself get them when speed matching. I have a fifty foot loop I use to speed match and can get them very close. Maybe within a 3 or 4 inches on a good day after one lap. I find matching different brands a bit more challenging even still.
What's your secret to getting them perfect? I have never seen this done, even by the most experienced.
BATMAN I have a fifty foot loop I use to speed match and can get them very close. Maybe within a 3 or 4 inches on a good day after one lap.
That is plenty close for operating and certainly good enough for me. I never said I got them "perfect", and that is not necessary.
To me it sounds intuitive to put the slowest one first and let the rear take up the slightly larger share of the pulling.
Thinking about it a bit further, if you put the fastest in the lead, it will lessen the burden on the trailing locomotive by relieving it of some of its towing job, which will encourage the slower trailer to maintain the same speed.
Mind you, that could also happen if they were switched.
Ergo, it don't matter. Only if you have a pusher at the rear and it tends to cause problems by being too aggressive at a given throttle setting. In that case, you'll be shoving your cars off the rails or you get couplers in the way of each other.
-Crandell
alco_fan zstripeI believe He said that ABBA,consist,that the B's were faster,that the A's,so he would have to have,BBAA, NO!? Or, AABB ? If you read closely, that was just theoretical. In any case, why does the OP not use his DCC to speed match?
Alco_Fan,
Actually, my post had nothing to do with you,, It was a pun,joke,between Rich and I from his other thread. He just didn't catch it.
zstripeActually, my post had nothing to do with you,, It was a pun,joke,between Rich and I from his other thread. He just didn't catch it.
Perhaps you guys should deal with your unrequited feelings for one another in private, since the rest of us seem to be disturbing your tete-a-tete
Cheers
As might be expected, there seems to be no definitive answer.
Some say put the fastest loco in front.
Some say put the slowest loco in front.
Others say it doesn't matter.
My sense is that it doesn't matter so long as they are running at reasonably similar speeds.
O.k. time for the dumb question of the day...coming to you at my expense On my Son's N Scale layout we operate on DC. Before I switched my HO layout from DC to DCC I used to use dummy locomotives when I operated it with multi-unit consists. But for his N Scale layout he operates all modern equipment (Kato Sd70ACe's, AC4400's, Sd40-2's etc etc) and we have no dummy's. He has wanted to use two locomotives at one time on one consist but I have been leary of him damaging one or both of the locomotives, both being powered of course. So, can you operate two comparable locomotives (speed wise) together on DC or is this not advisable? Example: two Kato Sd70ACe's. In that same vane, I see that Kato offers powered A units and powered B units for their N Scale F series of locomotives. This would suggest that you can operate multiple powered units on DC. Would that mean that Kato has manufactured both the A and B units such that they are closely matched in speed/power? If so, then theoretically the modeler could use not only a Kato AB consist, but an AA, ABB, ABBA etc etc correct? Thanks all...I appreciate your thoughts, insight, and time!
Happy modeling all!
Don.
"Ladies and gentlemen, I have some good news and some bad news. The bad news is that both engines have failed, and we will be stuck here for some time. The good news is that you decided to take the train and not fly."
Don, I run in DCC, but the DC guys run multiple locos in consists all the time, even different types of locos from different manufacturers.
Don,
To answer your last sentence, you can run,more than two of anything,on a DC layout,also ABBA's,the key,lies in the fact,if your power pack,has enough output,to be able,to run,more than two at the same time. A train set power pack,may only be able to run two at the same time. And if you use the Acc. outputs,for lights,switches,etc. that greatly reduce's,your output.
zstripe Don, To answer your last sentence, you can run,more than two of anything,on a DC layout,also ABBA's,the key,lies in the fact,if your power pack,has enough output,to be able,to run,more than two at the same time. A train set power pack,may only be able to run two at the same time. And if you use the Acc. outputs,for lights,switches,etc. that greatly reduce's,your output. Cheers, Frank
Thanks Frank. Power is supplied by an MRC Tech 4 and we don't use the ACC output as we use caboose industry manual ground throws and nothing is lighted. So there should be ample power for MU's. I asked about the Kato F units as my Son is really interested in adding a passenger train to his layout. He likes the Santa Fe and Great Northern F3 units so I was thinking for a Christmas gift I would spring for an AB unit and eventually add some of the Kato passenger cars. Seeing as how both A and B units are powered, I want to make sure that they will operate properly. Sounds like they will. Thanks guys!
Happy modeling!
richhotrain Don, I run in DCC, but the DC guys run multiple locos in consists all the time, even different types of locos from different manufacturers. Rich
The biggest thing I think is getting a consist that looks right and performs well together. There is another thread regarding which to put first, faster or slower... I think it depends on your layout and what works and looks good. Experiment and have a good time doing so, it's all good!
Duane
singletrack100 richhotrain Don, I run in DCC, but the DC guys run multiple locos in consists all the time, even different types of locos from different manufacturers. Rich Don, as Rich said, I am one of "those guys", running in DC and running several different mfr's together... currently running an IHC 2-8-2, Mantua 2-8-2 and a Rivarossi 0-8-0 triple-headed on a 30 car freight consist with 3+% grades, 22" curves. It all runs well together, though each one has its own "by itself" speed. Playing around with which one is where occurs to get best results, right now with the IHC in lead, Mantua 2nd and RR 3rd, but that is my layout and in HO. The biggest thing I think is getting a consist that looks right and performs well together. There is another thread regarding which to put first, faster or slower... I think it depends on your layout and what works and looks good. Experiment and have a good time doing so, it's all good! Duane
With a MRC Tech 4, You will be fine. Have Fun!
EMD.Don I asked about the Kato F units as my Son is really interested in adding a passenger train to his layout. He likes the Santa Fe and Great Northern F3 units so I was thinking for a Christmas gift I would spring for an AB unit and eventually add some of the Kato passenger cars.
I asked about the Kato F units as my Son is really interested in adding a passenger train to his layout. He likes the Santa Fe and Great Northern F3 units so I was thinking for a Christmas gift I would spring for an AB unit and eventually add some of the Kato passenger cars.
Don, a few years back, we spent our first retirement winter in a rented condo in Florida, leaving my DCC powered HO scale layout back here in Chicago. I was playing lousy golf and missing my trains, so I started fantasizing about laying down a set of track and running some trains in DC. I was drooling over the prospect of picking up an N scale consist , Kato's Santa Fe Warbonnet ABBA, and a string of Super Chief cars. I never did it, so if you do, invite me over to run trains with you and your son. Get that Warbonnet set. As Franks says, that MRC Tech 4 can handle all four powered units.
richhotrain Don, a few years back, we spent our first retirement winter in a rented condo in Florida, leaving my DCC powered HO scale layout back here in Chicago. I was playing lousy golf and missing my trains, so I started fantasizing about laying down a set of track and running some trains in DC. I was drooling over the prospect of picking up an N scale consist , Kato's Santa Fe Warbonnet ABBA, and a string of Super Chief cars. I never did it, so if you do, invite me over to run trains with you and your son. Get that Warbonnet set. As Franks says, that MRC Tech 4 can handle all four powered units. Rich
I can see it now...we two grown adults standing around the layout all antsy and excited begging my Son "Is it my turn yet? When can I operate the train?" . Actually I am going with the Santa Fe Warbonnet set. My Son has always loved that paint scheme and I saw yesterday that the Kato cars are widely available. Come Christmas morning he will be really excited! I doubt that I will get any operating time until he goes to bed though...
Don, don't spend any time thinking about what to get me for Christmas. When you buy that Santa Fe ABBA Warbonnet, plus the ten passenger car consist, just get a matching set for me. Is it my turn yet???
Merry Christmas
richhotrain Don, don't spend any time thinking about what to get me for Christmas. When you buy that Santa Fe ABBA Warbonnet, plus the ten passenger car consist, just get a matching set for me. Is it my turn yet??? Merry Christmas Rich
LOL...I'm on it !
Almost all of my DC-powered trains are double-headed due to the numerous grades. As long as locomotives are relatively close in speed, there is little issue, but it is important that the additional loco(s) are actually needed to move the train. It doesn't matter if the faster loco leads or trails, or even if it's used as a pusher, but the extra power will work much better if it's actually needed.
Here's a video of one such train - while the locos are all Bachmann 2-8-0s, I've run trains more than twice as long using various combinations of these locos with Athearn Genesis Mikados and re-motored Athearn switchers, and in various configurations, too - all on the head-end, with multiple pushers and even distributed throughout the train. The grade shown in the video is 2.5%, on multiple curves - the equivalent of 3.44%. I should also mention that any apparent jerkiness is due to my point-and-shoot camera, rather than the locos.
Wayne