I'm about to try my hand at putting a decal on an HO scale 'wooden' structure (actually styrene) that has lap board sides. It's my understanding that you wet the area with Microset, while the decal is soaking in water for about 30 seconds. The decal is a sign with a border around the lettering. Pick up the decal with.... what, tweezers, a soft brush? and somehow coax the decal off it's backing paper onto the model. You have a few seconds to use the brush to gently get the decal in position, I think. But, assuming all that I just said is correct, do you then use Microsol on the decal while it is wet, or wait until it's dry? I think I remember modelers talking about using furniture polish or something similar to get a shiny surface to apply the decal to. Is that necessary?
Jarrell
I'm sorry that this is off topic. and by the way I love your engineer setup in front of the Y6B. But ever since I first saw your getup on your "Show me something" post, you remind me of Ben Stein, the actor?
Joe C
The smoother your surface, the better and easier the decal application will be. So, if you are putting a name decal on a dining car, for example, you will want a gloss or at least a satin finish. On the other hand, if you're putting a sign on a wooden building, you can make it look old and weathered by applying it directly to a wooden surface.
I use both Microsol and Microset. The blue one goes on first, then the decal. I usually let it dry completely before applying the red one.
"Coaxing" the decal off the paper is a good term. Tweezers are harsh, because they tend to grip a small part, and have sharp edges, so they're likely to tear the decal. A small paintbrush is a good substitute. For large decals, I usually use my thumb, at least to get the whole thing loose. Push a small section beyond the edge of the paper, put that down on the model, and then slide the paper out from underneath. Regardless of how you get it off the paper, use a small brush to push it around and help it settle into the cracks.
Once it's in place, treated with the red bottle stuff, settled in and dry, give it a spray of gloss, satin or flat finish. This will keep it in place and protect the edges.
And, since we know you can take a picture, don't forget to post one for us.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I just used both for the first time when applying my Micro-Mark rivets (on Micro-Marks advise). I don't think I will ever apply a decal again without using them. Years of building R/C aircraft, model cars and MRR stuff I have wrestled with decals. I don't really know the why's and how's but both Microsol and Microset made the process a breeze.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
dominic c Jarrell I'm sorry that this is off topic. and by the way I love your engineer setup in front of the Y6B. But ever since I first saw your getup on your "Show me something" post, you remind me of Ben Stein, the actor? Joe C
Lol... thanks Joe, love Ben Stein and his dry sense of humor! :)
BATMAN I just used both for the first time when applying my Micro-Mark rivets (on Micro-Marks advise). I don't think I will ever apply a decal again without using them. Years of building R/C aircraft, model cars and MRR stuff I have wrestled with decals. I don't really know the why's and how's but both Microsol and Microset made the process a breeze.
thank Brent. I'm just learning the art/craft... so maybe I won't screw it up to bad.
MisterBeasley"Coaxing" the decal off the paper is a good term. Tweezers are harsh, because they tend to grip a small part, and have sharp edges, so they're likely to tear the decal. A small paintbrush is a good substitute. For large decals, I usually use my thumb, at least to get the whole thing loose.
I use a quilters pin or a ball head pin to lightly stab the decal and move it into position. A T-pin would also work. The quilters and ball head pins are similar to straight pins except a little longer with a head for grabbing. If the decal has been adequately soaked, it will easily slide off the backing without tearing. If it doesn't slide, soak it a little longer.
I don't let the decal float on the water surface. I hold the decal with backing with tweezers and hold it under water in a small shallow container. Then I place it on a piece of paper towel to continue soaking.
What I've been doing lately is placing the decal into position without any of the solvents, and then drawing the water off with a tissue. Then I gently blot the decal with a hankerchief. After all the water is drawn off, then I'll touch along the edge of the decal with the solvent. You'll see that the solvent will travel under the decal. I try not to touch anything at that point until the solvent has had time to dry. Larger decals may require the surface to be pre-wetted with the solvent. The problem with this is that if the solvent starts to react with the decal before you get it into position, you'll end up with a mess on your hands. I find it much easier to just make a few pin holes in the middle of the decal so that the solvent can penetrate.
The Microset is not very aggressive. Even after the Microset has dried, I've resoaked with more Microset to reposition the decal a bit. It softens the decal film, but doesn't dissolve it.
The Microsol (or Walthers Solvaset) will soften the decal film and the ink print as well. I like to apply the "sol" before the "set" has completely dried as it will help to draw the "sol" under the decal.
I also have a very soft sponge roller wheel about 1/4" wide mounted on a handle. I roll this over the decal when just about dry. Does an amazing job of forcing the decal down into the recesses and tightly over the raised details.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
jacon12It's my understanding that you wet the area with Microset, while the decal is soaking in water for about 30 seconds. The decal is a sign with a border around the lettering.
That's the general idea, although a decal may need more soaking time if it's large. Time needed varies somewhat between brands, or even different production batches within the same brand too.
Pick up the decal with.... what, tweezers, a soft brush? and somehow coax the decal off it's backing paper onto the model.
Using tweezers on a big decal is asking for trouble. It's easy for the decal to fold or tear. I almost always try to move the decal onto a piece of plain styrene before transferring it to the model. The styrene keeps the decal flat and hopefully in one piece.
You have a few seconds to use the brush to gently get the decal in position, I think.
It depends. If the decal film is strong enough, you may get quite a bit of time to position it. It's best to get the decal as close to the final position as possible. I usually get one edge of the decal to hang off the styrene, place that edge on the model, then pull the styrene (and backing paper if still present) carefully out from under the decal while holding that initial edge in place.
... do you then use Microsol on the decal while it is wet, or wait until it's dry?
I use Microsol only, and float the decal straight onto it so it starts dissolving in place quickly. If you're not experienced with decaling, you may want to exercise a lot more care and start with Micro Set. Either way, prodding the decal with a brush while wet can ruin it. Once it's where I want, I start flowing Micro Sol around the edges, letting capillary action move the solvent around as much as possible. You could also use an eyedropper or pipette to drip Micro Sol onto the surface to avoid hitting it with a brush. If you wait until the decal is dry, capillary action may be unable to get sufficient solvent under it for proper adhesion, and it may not conform to the surface of the model.
I think I remember modelers talking about using furniture polish or something similar to get a shiny surface to apply the decal to. Is that necessary?
A smooth, glossy surface is a big help. Future is an acrylic product that works like a painted acrylic gloss coating, so that's what I imagine you've heard about. Other gloss products can work too, like Testors Glosscote or similar.
A rough surface (like you get with flat paint) interferes with a decal deforming sufficiently to fully fit against it. The result is a lot of small voids behind the decal which can lead to "silvering" of clear areas of decal film. If your decal has no clear film, you may be able to get away without a gloss surface, as any voids will be hidden. Note that decals typically have areas of clear film around the edges, so either trim those away or ensure you apply over a glossy surface.
Rob Spangler
Try not to pick up moist decal films at all. If they don't tear, they will twist themselves into pretzels, impossible to straighten out. I trim my decals with scissors good and close to reduce the amount of glossy decal film on the model. Moisten decal and backing paper until the decal film loosens and will slide off the backing paper. Place the backing paper, carrying the decal film on the model close to the final location, and slide the film off the backing paper onto the model. Fingers, a brush, a pin, the point of a #11 blade all help to move the decal into place. Check carefully to see that the decal is level, centered, and in the right place. You can move the decal film so long as it stays wet.
I get good results decaling onto flat paint, like Floquil or rattle can auto primer. Blot up excess water with Kleenex to prevent the decal from floating out of position. Let the decal dry enough to stay stuck in place. Then apply Solvaset to soften the decal film and make it snuggle down around rivets, scribed plank lines and such like. You want to avoid having the decal float away on the Solvaset, so go easy with it. Solvaset softens the decal film, which means moving a Solvaseted decal will tear it, just about every time. I've been using Solvaset for many many years, it works, I understand it. I've never used the Microset/sol stuff, and wasn't really planning to do so any time soon.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
Mark, Rob, David... Mr. Beasley, thanks for the instructions and advice.
David,
I have been using, Your technique, for year's, never had any problem's with decal's. The Military Figure's and vehicle's,that I do, are all flat paint. The Warhammer game's figures,have tiny patch's and stripe's on them,sleeve's and shoulder's,flat paint, by brush. I just use Solvaset, that's all,with a light coat of Dull-Coat,brushed on..
Cheers,
Frank
Here's the building and the decals that came with it. It's the Walther's River Road Merchantile and I think I'll try the Doc Persheys elixar sign since he's going to have an office upstairs. The roof hasn't been permanently installed yet.
Ok, I've evidently misunderstood Microset and Microsol from the beginning. From the mfg's website..
"Description: Mirco Sol setting solution is for the most difficult irregulat surfaces to be found on models. It completely softens the Microscale Decal, allowing it to drape down onto the surface of the model, comforming perfectly to surface irregularities without distortion. The most amazing results in seemingly impossible places are possible because Micro Sol actually makes the decal part of the painted surface. For that reason you should coat Micro Sol on for only a few seconds and then leave it alone. It does the work. Do not touch until the decal has dried, as the decal is very soft at this stage and could be easily damaged. For the best results, first apply Micro Sol to prepare the surface and enhance the adhesive. Make sure the surface is free of particles that could get under the decal's film and cause a blemish. Then, when everything is dry enough that the decal will not move easily, apply Micro Sol with a small flat brush. Apply with as few strokes as possible so a not to disturb the decal. Then allow the decal to dry without disturbing it. One application is enough in most cases, but if necessary, a second application of Micro Sol can be helpful. Following these simple instructions will result ina model with Professional looking markings."
AND...
'Description: Micro Set is a very versatile decal setting solution that does several things to Microscale Decals to improve application. Micro Set should be applied to the surface of the model where you will be sliding the decal off the paper backing. Micro Set prepares the surface with special wetting agents that cut the oils in new paint and converts the adhesive on the back ofthe decal to a stronger and longer lasting one. In addition, Micro Set slightly softens the decal film to make it more flexible so that it will conform better to the model's surface. Better adhesion of the decal to the model prevents tiny air bubbles from forming and results in an invisible carrier film for the so-called "painted on look." To apply Micro Set: Use a soft flat artist's brush and apply Micro Set where you are going to apply the decal. Then slide the decal off the backing paper using a small pointed tip synthetic bristle brush to carefully position the decal in its proper position. Blot the decal carefully with a tissue or paper toweling, being careful not to disturb its position. Allow the decal to dry overnight. It will then be ready for a protective coat of Micro Coat Flat, Satin or Gloss."
I thought they were used together (use one to wet the area and float the decal into position, and the other after some drying, or totally dry to snug it in around boards, rivets etc.)
But Micro Sol is for those hard to decal spots, like on boards in my building and Micro Set is the uses on smoother spots. Right?
Sorry if I confused the issue more than needed.
Well, here's my first attempt.... still wet. I did manage to get it in position without completely ruining it so that's a start. I don't know if I put enough MicroSol on it but it looks like it's trying to conform to the boards. Quite a few trapped air bubbles though. I think I'll keep my day job for now.
jacon12 I don't know if I put enough MicroSol on it but it looks like it's trying to conform to the boards. Quite a few trapped air bubbles though.
That's pretty normal. A large decal like that will need repeated applications of solvent before it conforms. Use a pin or knife point to puncture any bubbles so solvent can get under them. You may need to do the same elsewhere as you go.
zstripe David, I have been using, Your technique, for year's, never had any problem's with decal's. The Military Figure's and vehicle's,that I do, are all flat paint. The Warhammer game's figures,have tiny patch's and stripe's on them,sleeve's and shoulder's,flat paint, by brush. I just use Solvaset, that's all,with a light coat of Dull-Coat,brushed on.. Cheers, Frank
Oh, yes, I forget to mention the DullCote. After the decal and the paint are good and dry, overnight at least, couple of days is better, give the model a light coat of DullCote to make the glossy decal film blend into the flat paint. I use DullCote in a rattle can with good results. Shake well.
Years ago I tried some other clear flat finish in a rattle can. It made the decals crinkle up. Since then I have stuck with DullCote.
wp8thsub jacon12 I don't know if I put enough MicroSol on it but it looks like it's trying to conform to the boards. Quite a few trapped air bubbles though. That's pretty normal. A large decal like that will need repeated applications of solvent before it conforms. Use a pin or knife point to puncture any bubbles so solvent can get under them. You may need to do the same elsewhere as you go.
Does it have to be completely dry before more applications or pin use?
dstarr zstripe David, I have been using, Your technique, for year's, never had any problem's with decal's. The Military Figure's and vehicle's,that I do, are all flat paint. The Warhammer game's figures,have tiny patch's and stripe's on them,sleeve's and shoulder's,flat paint, by brush. I just use Solvaset, that's all,with a light coat of Dull-Coat,brushed on.. Cheers, Frank Oh, yes, I forget to mention the DullCote. After the decal and the paint are good and dry, overnight at least, couple of days is better, give the model a light coat of DullCote to make the glossy decal film blend into the flat paint. I use DullCote in a rattle can with good results. Shake well. Years ago I tried some other clear flat finish in a rattle can. It made the decals crinkle up. Since then I have stuck with DullCote.
I'll do that. I was noticing it's awfully shiny.
jacon12Does it have to be completely dry before more applications or pin use?
No. Once the decal is fairly well stuck additional applications of solvent shouldn't ruin it provided you don't use too much pressure on the brush. You do have to be careful if puncturing decal film while it's wet to avoid pulling or tearing it.
Jarrell, looking good so far, If that film resists snuggling down w/ the Microsol, (some kit supplied decals may have a heavy film) try Solvaset. It is far more aggressive and will soften even some of the "thicker" films and allow to nestle into the siding contours. Avoid pooling it on the decal, holding the building @ a slight angle allow the Solvaset to run down over the decal. A small piece of paper towel helps to absorb the runoff. I am usually doing this for large heralds/ lettering on the long hood of a diesel.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
Ok, Bob and Rob.. thanks for the tips.
This is how it looks after drying about 3 hours or so. Not sure whether to add more Microsol or not.
Jarrell,
Good job so far! Very importantly you got it on straight.
Your sign will look even better though if you can get it to settle completely into the recesses of the lapped siding. My recommendation to carefully add some Solvaset, a softener even stronger than MicroSol or MicroSet. It will probably take repeated applications. You might even need to let it dry, then with a very sharp hobby knife slice the decal horizontally at the lower edge of each piece of siding, then apply more Solvaset.
On the other hand, if you are happy with it as is, you're done. After all it is your railroad.
skagitrailbird Jarrell, Good job so far! Very importantly you got it on straight. Your sign will look even better though if you can get it to settle completely into the recesses of the lapped siding. My recommendation to carefully add some Solvaset, a softener even stronger than MicroSol or MicroSet. It will probably take repeated applications. You might even need to let it dry, then with a very sharp hobby knife slice the decal horizontally at the lower edge of each piece of siding, then apply more Solvaset. On the other hand, if you are happy with it as is, you're done. After all it is your railroad.
Thanks Roger for the suggestion. I wish I had an LHS nearby that carried it, I would try the Solvaset. I think I will try cutting the decal and applying MicoSol once more to see if it helps.
I don't believe, I would cut it, like has been suggested, To me I would be thinking,that there is a chance,that it might separate in spots and would not look good at all. Maybe one more coat and leave it alone..Just my Thought!
zstripe I don't believe, I would cut it, like has been suggested, To me I would be thinking,that there is a chance,that it might separate in spots and would not look good at all. Maybe one more coat and leave it alone..Just my Thought! Cheers, Frank
Agree w/ Frank. Slicing the decal and reapplying "solvent" can cause larger irregular separations that you may not want. Many times for a quite weathered old sign, this may be Ok, but I doubt this is the effect you want. Just re-coat a few times to gain more snuggling if at all. Once weathered along w/ the rest of the structure, you should be good to go.
I may have to invoke the modelers 'three foot rule' on this one, I had already done the slicing when I read these last posts... :)
I did run into a little problem but it's not too bad. It's been an edjukation! I'll post a photo later.
When you do a bit of weathering on the building and sign, you should be fine, especially for the 3 ft. You could further "tatter" the edges and some siding laps as you "age the sign. Any minor "goofs" may actually aid in it's overall appearance. The sign is rather shiny and looks as if the paint crew just left!
Here's what it looks like so far. Needs weathering but I'm not ready for that yet. I still need to put a smaller decal on the front of the building.
I guess I didn't mess it up too bad, but I'm glad I did a big one for the first one.
It did exactly,what I was thinking it would do, although it's not real bad. When you get around to weathering,like has been suggested,above, should look pretty good. If you can though, I would give,Solvaset, a shot, That is my choice. On other Decals, hopefully you can get it.