Double Decked layout

[Anonymous]

After years of trying to cram too much track and industry in to too small a space I am going to tear out my layout and start anew. I plan to double deck this one to much improve the operation and have some questions.
What kind of lighting works best under the top deck to light the lower? Is it best to have the second deck out flush with the lower? What works best for brackets to attach the upper level to the wall?
I'm sure as contruction starts I will have others but these come to mind first. It appears to me that somewhere around a 16 to 17 inch seperation between decks is about right.
I would appreiciate any thoughts and experiences from anyone who has built and operated a multi decked layout.
Yes, it will have to have a helix. Because of the space, 12x15.6 with an additonal 11 foot leg on one side than can be no wider than 24 inches, I don't see any way around having one. Even though it will take up some space, I plan on having the helix be 30 inch radius. I believe in the long run this will work best and even though I lose some space on the lower portion it will enable me to pick up a great deal of space on the upper.
Thanks Clay Smith

[orsonroy]

Hi Clay, and welcome to the wonderful world of multideck layouts! There's been several discussions on the forum about multilevel layouts over the past year, so you might want to do a few archive searches for lots of information (well, probably too much information!). I'll quickly hit on your basic questions now, to get ya started. Keep in mind that these are only my opinions, based on building a 12x25 three level corkscrew layout, using foam-based and minimalist construction techniques. There are several "right" ways to build a multilevel layout, so you'll probably want to research several techniques before you settle on one method.

QUOTE:
What kind of lighting works best under the top deck to light the lower?

In general, flourescents. Single bulb with high-quality ballasts and UV-corrected light. I went with C7 and C9 Christmas lights, because I can't stand flourescent lighting (I can see the flickering and hear the ballasts whining). Incandescent lighting works well enough, but it does dump a lot of heat into the layout room (I use fans).

QUOTE:
Is it best to have the second deck out flush with the lower?

It's generally best to have the upper levels either narrower or only as wide as lower levels, especially if your decks are close together. I do have one area where the uppermost deck is wider than the lower decks, but I made sure those lower areas were scenically neutral (no switching, etc).

QUOTE:
What works best for brackets to attach the upper level to the wall?

Lots of stuff. I went with U-channel L-brackets screwed directly to the drywalled studwalls. These metal brackets have a load rating of 300 pounds each, so they're plenty strong for a model railroad. I decided to mount them directly to the finished walls for simplicity's sake (once I figured out the grades and chalk marked the height of each level, it took me a whopping three hours to mount all 170 brackets). If you don't like the look of the brackets on top of the backdrop (I've painted over mine), but have a finished wall, you can still use the brackets and add a false wall backdrop over them. If you have exposed studwalls and don't mind the cost of lumber, you could always screw 1x3 or 2x3 brackets to the studs, reinforcing them with angle plates.

QUOTE:
It appears to me that somewhere around a 16 to 17 inch seperation between decks is about right.

16 inches between decks should be more than enough. Most of my decks are in the 12"-14" range, and I don't even notice the upper decks while running trains. 8" is WAY too low! (but I had no choice in one area. Thankfully, it's only about 2 feet long)

QUOTE:
Yes, it will have to have a helix. Because of the space, 12x15.6 with an additonal 11 foot leg on one side than can be no wider than 24 inches, I don't see any way around having one.

With the space you're quoting, you're right. Even with my 12x25 space, designing out a helix was a major undertaking. My ruling grade is 2.6% or so, and most of my layout is at least 1.25%. My decks are relatively close together and I'm only running 12-16 car trains uphill (which is OK, since 30 car trains overwhelm the layout!)

Hope this has helped! If you want to see photos of my layout, give me an email offlist, and I'll be more than happy to send you a few!

[dmikee]

Our club is in the process of building a double decker with a lower third deck as a storage yard. We are using 20" of separation between upper and lower decks with 8" for the 'basement' yard. Room is 20 X 36. We are avoiding the helix like the plague. Instead we have established a 2% relatively constant grade to transition from the storage yd to main level and thence to upper level.
For brackets, we used L-brackets made from 2 x 2's reinforced by narrow plywood gussets. For lighting, we will be using two tube flourescent shop lights and track lighting for the upper level. The basement yard will use rope lighting.

The track plan is all double-track main line with cut-off's so that continuous running on each level is possible. Configuration is a Giant "C" with walkin access to all points and minimum 48" wide aisle-ways. Lower level is 36" deep while the upper level is 24" deep.

[jfugate]

For deck separation, 12-18" is good. Don't underestimate how good 12-13" looks -- you might be surprised.

The closer the decks are together, the easier it is to get the track from level to level. I dislike long helixes because the train can disappear into a hidden helix for what seems like an eternity.

It's alway good to do some test mockups to see how things look to you. You will learn a lot if you you do this, and it will help you avoid bulding something you have to rip out later because you don't like it.

[johncolley]

Another possibility is to open up the side of the tunnel about halfway up the helix. Do rock or concrete tunnel wall with a couple of grain-o-wheat bulbs so you can see the train's progress. Also if you double-track the tunnel you can use it for staging a couple of trains in line. Keep an open mind and use your imaginations!

[Anonymous]

For lighting, try Undercabinet Fluorescent Lights, thye usually come in 24" sections and are not prone to the crackling an buzzing normal Fluorescent lighting has. they also put out a lot of light for their size. there's others out there that come in 3-4" disks that are just as good and may be cheaper in the long run.

Home depot has a "Hampton Bay 3-Light White 20 Watt Halogen Plug-in Under Cabinet Light", and a 5-light set up, which are 3 or 5 small round halogen lamps that may be good, as they are dimmable as well. but not having used them in any capacity, i'm not sure if they're prone to the heat output of normal halogen or not, so they may not be suitable for deck lighting.

As for the decks, usually you set the lower deck to a set depth, say 30", then you'd set the upper deck to a slightly smaller depth, say 24". this is not set in stone, but every layout i've seen seems to follow a 6" difference in depths.

the hight difference in decks should be enough to accomidate any building you plan to use, as well as allow you to do varying hights of rail on the lower decks. 12" height difference (mesured from top of bottom deck to bottom of top deck) should be a minimum difference.

Helix's are a whole topic in themselves, and there's even a thread on them on this forum, so I won't go into them much here.