I have a 20' wall for my shelf layout. I am thinking of using strong, steel, braced, shelf brackets. They are 19" from wall to end and rated at 1000 pounds of load, each.
My shelf will be 22 or 23" front to back. If I space the brackets 32" apart, run a ledger board of 1X2 along the back, and a 1X3 or 1X4 facia along the front Can I get away with a 5/8" plywood top directly on the brackets?
I could also space the brackets 16" apart but they are $15 each.
The absence of legs allows for my wheelchair to move freely along as I operate.
73
Bruce in the Peg
Lance Mindheim's East Rail layout was constructed using hollow core doors (22in wide) resting on heavy duty shelf brackets spaced about the same as yours. In one of his books, he suggests laminating 2 inches of foam to this and adding a 1/4in thick fascia to the front. That's it.I would think if you go the plywood route using 3 1x3 joists lengthwise (plus fascia) might also work.
Co-owner of the proposed CT River Valley RR (HO scale) http://home.comcast.net/~docinct/CTRiverValleyRR/
Bruce, I am no structural engineer, but 32" spacing seems stretching it a little. Instead, 24" spacing would seem to be a safer spacing. But, I assume that you are dealing with 16" OC stud work. In that event, it may be worth the extra money just to be on the safe side and go with 16" spacing.
Rich
Alton Junction
Bruce,
I would just reduce the thickness,of the plywood,to 15/32nd's exterior grade plywood,it is 5pl and will not sag,like 1/2 and use 16'' spacing,where you will spend the most time....If you can,glue and screw,the plywood to the frame....I can almost guarantee,,that it will work perfect..
Cheers,
Frank
Layout of LION is on a 27' wall and about 20' on the next wall too. Him build three levels, but maybe you do not want to do that.
Photos of my construction are here.
The deck is made of 1/2" sound board. Braces are on 16" centers with no other framing than what is shown.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
If you're using that cheap plywood from a big box store like HD or Lowes and screwing the fascia into the edge of the plywood then you may get warping. Instead I would build a regular frame from 1x4's and screw/glue the plywood on top. Mount that on the brackets. You could use less brackets as well - provided they are well anchored.
Alternatively, for your plan I would use a good 3/4" birch plywood with 13 plys. (Note, the big box stores around me have cheap 9 ply birch - and probably voids in the middle).
My ideas may be overkill. But I have never regretted overbuilding, the converse is not true.
Good luck
Paul
I think 32" spacing should be fine. On my Cascade Branch extension, a large part of it is on a pair of L-girders made of a 1x3 and a 1x2. It's roughly 15 feet long, with supports only at each end and at the 8 foot mark in between. No problems with sagging, etc and plenty of clearance underneath.
I'd suggest that you use an L-girder on the outside at least, as it will be stronger than just a board on its side. If you're just gonna tabletop it with plywood, it could be screwed directly to the L-girder.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
I have seen articles using 2" foam on shelf brackets, with a piece of 1x3 on top of each bracket glued to the foam and screwed to the bracket. Since you are looking at 32" centers. you might want to run a couple of 1x3 or 1x4 underneath for a little added strength. From your description, the brackets should be strong enough, it's just the sag between that might be an issue. Unless you are planning some heavy scenery, I don't think the extra would be needed. However, it would be easier to over strengthen when building, rather than go back and add it later. Your width should give you no problem with the 2" foam.
Good luck,
Richard
During my time in the service I built a lot of N scale modules using 1x2 frames and 1/4 ply for the decks (probably would use 1/2 if I weren't worried about weight). They were in closed bookshelf boxes that would work perfectly with brackets like you describe. If you can get them, or the MR CD, the Jan/Feb 77 issues have the perfect design for what you're talking about.
If that doesn't apply, then rather just put plywood on the shelf brackets, you might consider something more like L-girder or dominos with the brackets acting in place of legs. Has all the advantages of the brackets supporting the layout for clearances and still allows for grades and scenary below the track as in conventional benchwork. In fact, with L-girder, you could probably to the 6 feet between brackets because the strength would be in the girders. If you are concerned about thickness, 1x2 glue and screw girders would be plenty strong.
Bruce ,
Speaking from experience, I ran a ledger board at the back and used a 1x2 on the front of my layout to connect my fascia just as you are planning. I also placed 1x2 lumber on edge every 16" to form a strong open grid frame for my half inch plywood top surface. I then layed down cork for the track. With this design just be carefull to make sure there is no interference from the stiffeners if you are using switch motors.
Good.luck.
Bruce, Gee whiz! How heavy is your layout going to be? 1000lb rating @ 32" centres? Sounds more like a heavy duty workbench!
But I guess that is not what you mean't. I think you could get away with what you propose provided you glue and screw the fascia and ledger to the ply. This gives you a girder on each side. However I don't think this is a good method. The "flatness" of your layout will depend on the accuracy of the mounting of your brackets. I would recommend L girder.
Part of my layout is a 20" shelf on a 20' wall. Four steel brackets bolted to the concrete columns, L girder front and rear, cross joists @ 16" centres.
Bill
Speaking,of heavy duty,workbench!! Looks good though..
Most of my layout is around the basement walls and is 18 inches to 3 feet in most places and all I did was run a 1 x3 with a 3/4 x 1 screwed to the leg for support so it doesn't bend from front and angled it back to the wall stud just above the molding so anyone walking around the layout didn't have to worry about kicking any legs. Its been this way for 6 years and haven't had any problems, the only place there are legs is the islands which are 6 and 1/2 feet wide and any thing 2 feet or more from the walls. Since this is for you and you need the room for your knees I think it would be the best way to support your shelf. I built my framing from 1 x 3 's on 16" centers, and 1/2 plywood screwed to them so there was no need for the metal brackets. You would not believe how strong it is. Jim.
This was precisely the method I used for a shelf railroad I had about 10 years ago and it worked great. Never had any problems until it was dismantled.