OK, here's the plan I came up with.
There is a one foot grid on the plan. Elevations are marked in blue. The staging yard is at 0", the town is at 4.5", and the city is at 9". It's actually fairly simple, though the small space and hidden staging under the town make it look more complex than it is.
This plan is based around putting a 1/2" plywood shelf over the center section (top at 4.5", 4" clearance underneath) to provide a location for hidden staging. Holes in the fascia would allow access. The yard is double ended, can hold 4 six-foot trains, and uses a pair of pinwheel yard ladders. The tunnels are designed so that a 6 foot train would always be visible from one end of the tunnel or the other. There is always 4" or more clearance when one track passes over another, so there should be plenty of room for supports and roadbed. Some cutting of the incline sets will be necessary, though. Large flat areas besides the town could be supported on plywood as well (namely the city scene and the coal mine), and this would save on materials.
This layout plan has a ruling grade of 2% heading to the right out of staging (4% with helpers for a short stretch), and 3% heading to the left. This is a great excuse to run double-headers and pushers on short trains, and the tunnels will make the train look much longer than it really is. And if there are serous problems with traction; use Bullfrog Snot - it works great.
Now a virtual tour of the layout.
Heading to the right out of staging, trains encounter a modest 2% grade. The train quickly emerges from a tunnel below the yard, and then ducks into another tunnel before passing underneath Champion Packing Co. The train emerges again below the roundhouse, and slowly climbs its way around the engine terminal before entering another tunnel in front of the passenger station. The train emerges again in front of Northern Light and Power, and enters a small town with a helper terminal.
The train passes by the beginning of a branch line to a mine, past a station and a water tank, under a long bridge, and then stops next to a rustic brewery while a helper locomotive is put on the end of the train. With both steam engines working hard, the train climbs the 4% grade up into the city.
After climbing the grade, the helper is cut off on the fly (there are several articles available on the subject - it's very simple actually), and the train continues past the engine terminal, yard tower, and yard. The train stops across from a large city station while the brakeman sets retainers for the descent. The train sets off, and passes through a tunnel and across the long bridge before beginning down the 3% grade.
The train winds its way down past a coal mine and through several tunnels, before disappearing into the longest tunnel on the layout. A cutaway in the fascia on the side of the layout will allow operators to view the train descending through the tunnel. After passing through this scene, the train reenters staging.
There are a couple points where construction of the layout may be a little tricky. The staging yard will have to be laid first, and thoroughly tested before the platform is built above it. The climb out of staging into the town will require a full 2% incline set, plus a single section of 2% incline. The 4% grade out of the town will similarly require a full 4% set plus a half-section of 4% incline. I would suggest putting the half section on the lift out to minimize its thickness. The climb to the coal mine would require a full 4% set, beginning at 4.5".
The platform supporting the mine should be built before putting in the loops around it, and the platform supporting the city should be built after the climb into the town is laid.
The 3% grade back into staging begins on the bridge, but the vertical curve is located over a pier, and it will be perfectly fine after a bit of shimming under the track. Two 3% grade sets will be required to lay the descent back into staging.
The yard does not have a lead since I couldn't fit one in, and the arrival/departure track loops around behind the station. A caboose track continues back from the A/D track to the mirror under the overpass. The engine terminal has room for many more tracks - I just didn't include them in the plan; they are up to the builder. As I said before, the right lobe is a city scene, the center section is a small town with mountains behind it, and the left lobe is a mountain scene.
I made liberal use of fascia flats and partial models on this plan. They take a little effort to make, but greatly add to the depth of scenes. The city station is not based on any particular kit.
I already mentioned the ruling grade on the layout. All the turnouts are Atlas #4s, except for one #6 near Northern Light and Power, and another between the engine terminal and warehouse. The minimum radius is 18", so the layout will be limited to 60' passenger cars, but this is actually a blessing in disguise. The shorter cars are not noticeably smaller unless set side-by-side with a full-length passenger car, and the shorter cars allow a train with more cars for the same train length, so it looks longer. A pair of powered F-units would be perfect for pulling the passenger train (or a powered with Bullfrog Snot and a dummy).
If you have any questions, don't hesitate to contact me.
S&S
Modeling the Pennsy and loving it!
Hi Don7,
Your revised locations of the yard and engine terminal look great! You might want to consider a compound yard ladder to maximize space in that location, or angle the tracks so that they are parallel to make the yard look more prototypical.
I would like to thank you all for your comments and ideas.
I have revised the top portion of the plan so that the engine and shunting yards are combined
RREBELL,
I guess the hollow core door Manufacturing Industry,making door widths,of 28'',never heard of the 30'',rule...22'' radius would have been great,in 48'' for the OP..
Have Fun,,,
Cheers,
Frank
zstripe RREBELL, I'm curious as to how,you are going to get,a full 36'' radius in 48 inches!?! I also don't recall,any 30'' rule,being in the Hobby 62 Yrs..I find it hard to believe,that I missed that rule.. Cheers, Frank
I'm curious as to how,you are going to get,a full 36'' radius in 48 inches!?! I also don't recall,any 30'' rule,being in the Hobby 62 Yrs..I find it hard to believe,that I missed that rule..
Now on to how I would change the plan assuming it is HO, make the left side 48" wide so you can have a full 18" radius on that side, then make the other side as large as you can keeping the 30" rule. Basic plan of the left side is fine but I would run the yard tracks from just north of the yard lead. The yards at the top I would remove and on the right side I would move the turnaround left as far as possible so I could make a large yard on the far right side. Then you could add sidings on the maineline as needed.
First start with the basics, a 24" walkway is not large enough, period!!!!!!!! It needs to be 30" or you will not like it long term.
Hmm. Has some possibilities. There are a few important specs that I didn't see. Important specs especially if this is a project for a customer. You don't mention the minimum curve radius. Or the size of mainline turnouts. Full length passenger cars, 80 footers, need 24 inch radius just to stay on the track, let alone look good. They also want #6 turnouts, they will derail going thru #4 turnouts. The 60 and 70 foot shortie cars are more forgiving of tight curves. The Athearn blue box cars with truck mounted couplers will go around 18 inch curves. Does your CAD program enforce curve radius, or can you tug a curve a little tighter with the mouse to negotiate a tight spot?
Likewise, you don't spec your ruling (steepest) grade. Anything more than 2% will make it difficult to impossible to get a long train up it. In HO you need 3 3/4" grade separation to run one track over anoher. It needs a long run (15 feet) to climb up 3 3/4 inches at two percent.
Turntables are space eaters. I'd settle for just one. Shays and such don't have tenders and so they run equally well in both directions. Logging and mining roads would run a light weight, sharp curve, steep grade line up into the woods or to the mine with no turning facilities at the far end. They would run in and back out. Was it me, I'd use the space for a mine or a logging camp or a sawmill.
Speaking of the engine terminal. Do you have a plan to locate a coaling tower, a sandhouse, a water spout and an ash pit? Was it me, I would rearrange the turntable tracks to face toward the run around track. The ends of the turntable tracks (back wall of the roundhouse) form a circle that will mate up with the curved run around track with little wasted space.
Not sure if I understand your yard. Is the yard lead that diagonal track? With slip switches all along? If so, you have a lot of too short tracks. I would try for a double ended yard with a couple of tracks long enough to hold an entire train. I can use it as a a staging yard, bring a train from the mainline into an empty track, and send another train out onto the main from a yard track.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
The original plan posted is overly complex. I don't understand the yard, it looks like a continuous line of double slip switches down the middle with a bunch of short stub tracks on either side, not particularly user friendly or practical as a switching yard (not to mention incredibly expensive to buy).
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Just got the track plan finished - got is done sooner than I expected! The notations are a little bit cluttered, but after studying it for a bit, everything should be clear. I have the .crw file if it's of any use.
The right lobe is a city scene, the center section is a small backwoods town, and the left lobe is a mountain scene with a coal mine. I have no idea what the mainline run is. I'd guess around 60 feet.
Your neighbor won't be able to run full-length passenger cars, but then he wouldn't be able to on any plan with curves smaller than 24". 60 foot passenger cars and 40 foot freight cars will be at home on this plan. 4 axle diesels (up to 6 axle Blue Box diesels), and steam smaller than 8-coupled will run fine. With these tight curves, it'd be best to get older locomotives at train shows or off e-bay. The IHC Big Boys could go around 18" curves, but the overhand might be a bit much for this plan.
There are 2 bridges (one over 3 feet long) and 6 tunnels in the plan. Using WS terrain foam stuff, it shouldn't be too hard to build. All the hidden trackage is pretty simple except for the staging yard, and that has pretty easy access.
I'll upload the plan now and post again with the plan and more information about it.
Hi,
I would consider linking one leg of the far right double ended siding to the main line. The area I'm talking about is the bottom right side of the diagram.
This would give an alternate route and allow more freedom in running two trains.
For what its worth............ just trying to help out.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
don7 I tried to move the engine yard and marshalling yard together so that they were not seperate.
I tried to move the engine yard and marshalling yard together so that they were not seperate.
Bummer.
With as many curves as the plan has, as well as spurs and sidings, I think this is a plan that would benefit from curved turnouts...the kind from Peco or Walthers. Don't think the trackplanning software you have allows for those, but I think they would be great space savers, especially where the yards would come off the main.
Perhaps fewer but longer yard tracks coming off the left side of the main, pointing in the opposite direction that you have them now, and then a switchback to the turntable.
- Douglas
I've been working out a plan for this space for fun. I designed the plan for 6 foot trains (1 engine, 9 cars, and a caboose) with an 18" minimum radius. Long wheelbase steam engines won't run unless they were made by IHC or AHM. There is a 3% ruling grade on the main line, with a short 4% section to require helper operations.
I fit in hidden staging for 4 trains, 2 towns, an engine terminal, a 4 track yard, and a branch line with a coal mine at the end. The steep grades give a great excuse for double-headers on short trains. If your neighbor runs diesels, he could easily run two units on the head end and a steam pusher tacked on the back behind the caboose. The scenery would probably look like Model Railroader's Virginian project layout. I drew the plan for Atlas code 100 turnouts and flextrack.
Give me a couple more days to put the finishing touches on the plan and I will upload it to this site.
The revision is looking great! Consider a lift out section to get the left off of the peninsula.
Note that given the angle coming off the bypass this is the best effort I can see.
For way ever reason the benchwork did not pick up the 2' x4' opening on the right hand side of the layout
don7 There will be a small 60' turntable to service a Climax or Shay.
There will be a small 60' turntable to service a Climax or Shay.
Did they ever get turned? I always thought they just ran 'em back and forth.
Dave
Just be glad you don't have to press "2" for English.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ_ALEdDUB8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hqFS1GZL4s
http://s73.photobucket.com/user/steemtrayn/media/MovingcoalontheDCM.mp4.html?sort=3&o=27
Does he need to stay strictly in the aisles to operate the layout - only using a fixed stationary throttle? Since the plan is open on three sides, it seems a shame not to have the operator walk around the layout.
You could put backdrops or ridges down the middle of the two blobs to gain scene separation. Kind of like the way the Virginian plan separates the marshalling yard side of the layout from the mine and truck dump side. You'll have to rework some of the track in the blobs, however.
The big empty space on the left seems like a good place for the engine yard - as you call it. Relocating it to that spot might help to create space for a ridge in the right blob and separate the mine scene from the rest of the layout, as I sort of already mentioned.
If your friend wants to stay put and see all of the layout from one spot, these ideas might not work out.
Edit: I would try to swap the locations of the shay turntable and the engine yard. I think it makes more sense to have the shay closer to the mine and the roundhouse closer to the big yard.
Either way, I would try to use the empty space for the engine yard, and lose the center ladder in the marshalling yard and replace it with a more traditional ladder.
Don7,
OK, so he wants at least two trains, mainline running, and some switching. Plus a mine.
I've been noodling around with this area in CADrail, and it looks like the best plan is to build a separate staging yard on the tabletop, with then a plywood platform over it (1/2" plywood, top at 4.5"). Using this set-up it should be easy to fit at least two towns, plus a mine. Atlas track planning software is good, but it is also fairly limited. There are several free track planning programs available, and there have been several threads on the subject. Just use the forum search feature and search for "planning" or "program". I've been working with Atlas #4 turnouts in the plan. I also found the specs for Woodland Scenics risers online.
The best track planning programs you have to buy. I use CADrail and love it, and I've heard good things about "3rd Planit". Trainplayer is also supposed to be good, but I tried a demo version and found it difficult and confusing. It's all a matter of personal preference. Try a few demos and see which one you like best.
He is interested in running a passenger train as well as a freight train. He would like to run a freight to the mine located along the highest track which is located on the right hand side of the layout.
He also indicated an interest in switching.
As i mentioned the only thing printed in stone is the size and shape of the layout. Looking at the layout there is a wall along the top of the layout and also the right hand side of the layout.
As I mentioned the yard is at 0" elevation the elevation of the main engine yard is 4" , hence the reason that yard is not adjacent to the freight yard..
The elevation of the layout portion contained in the circle on the left side is 3"
At the top of the layout the first turnout is at 4" elevation and it increases to 6" where it turns towards the front of the layout on the right hand side.
I have the Atlas program for planning track layouts to work with.
Interesting track plan - looks promising!
A couple comments, though. Your longest yard track is 9 cars long, and the total capacity of the yard is 20 cars. Since it is effectively a visible staging yard, this severely limits operations on the layout. I addition, the large engine terminal is roughly 1/4 to 1/3 around the layout from the yard. Most real engine terminals are directly adjacent to the yard. In addition, I only see two runaround tracks, which will make switching some of the spurs difficult.
This plan would be great for a mainline running layout, but it offers little in the way of switching interest. This design is a great candidate for impressive scenes, but the majority of operation would be limited to around-and-around.
Revisions of this plan could go in several different directions, so it would be helpful to all us track planning nuts if we had an idea as to what your neighbor was looking for in a track plan.
I was asked by my neighbour to help plan a layout plan. The plan was made from the Atlas track program that used to by a download on their site.My layer with the elevations did not print so I give you a narrative of the track plan starting at the main yard area, track plan is meant to run counter clockwise.
The plan is basically an 8' x 12' plan. The 12' section is agains a wall and the other sides are open. The track from the marshalling yard rises from 0' elevation and going counter clockwise rises to 3" elevation at the first switch The center of the circle is also at a 3" elevation and there will be an industry and misc buildings at that site. There will be a small 60' turntable to service a Climax or Shay.
Progressing from the first switch the track rises to 4" at the next turnout which leads to a mine or forestry site which is at 6" elevation and located at the right side (3 o'clock position). From the second switch the next turnout leads to the main engine yard which is located in the right hand circle portion, the elevation is 4" at that site, there is a roundhouse and 90' turntable here and a few railroad structures. The next turnout after the one leading to the main yard is to a depot, the final turnout is a bypass track past the yard and depot area. The track adjacent to the main yard area leads downhill to the yard, just before the yard the track enters a tunnel and emerges from the tunnel just before the main marshalling yard.
The layout will be on 1" foamboard and all risers will be Woodland scenic 2% incline risers.
The neighbour has a computer with a cad program and he has transfered the layout . He is happy with the plan, i suggested a shelf layout but this is the exact size framework he wants, the layout will be in a finished garage.
Hence, the shape of the benchwork is not to change.The aisle is 2' wide.
Comments anyone