Yes WiThrottle has a screen for consists and it looks simple enough though I haven't actually messed with it yet. I have an Alco A/B consist that I have been running together and it automatically comes up on WiThrottle just like it does on the NCE controller.
There is nothing fancy about my basic Toshiba laptop and it gets the job done without any noticeable response delays. The only tricky part is getting the local network set up. I am finding that once set up coms are rock stable. But getting it all going from a cold start sometimes can be a bit tedious.
Sorry for the delayed response- been literally traveling the world the past couple of weeks with very little free time to read through the forum. But I gotta make money to support the hobby :)
Huntington Junction - Freelance based on the B&O and C&O in coal country before the merger... doing it my way. Now working on phase 3. - Walt
For photos and more: http://www.wkhobbies.com/model-railroad/
Can you set up consists from WiThrottle?
I'm hoping to set this up at home too. Installed a serial card into my doorstop computer (867mhz woohoo fast!) It should be plenty fast for doing just general JMRI stuff...I hope.
Hoping I don't have to setup a separate network for WiThrottle. We'll see though. Thanks for mentioning that! As soon as I get this serial cable, I'll be hooking it all up.
Chris
Glad you jumped in and changed the subject. I think the control system options have been well covered (well maybe beat to death.)
After months of "construction" I just now have enough track down to actually run trains and I just put WiThrottle on my phone over the weekend, so hardly an expert at any of this. But I already find myself grabbing the phone instead of the wired controller. Being able to walk around the layout un-teathered is definitely a big plus. And having controls for 2 trains on the same screen makes operating my small layout much easier. So yes I like it a lot, though I can see a real NCE wireless controller in my future.
Getting the communications from the laptop to the phone took a little time to sort out. I tried going through my home network router but couldn't make that work, so set up a new direct wireless network on my laptop just for running the RR. Then connected the phone to the laptop Wifi network that I set up. I had to mess around with network security protocols to get WiThrottle to link up and eventually found that WEP works fine. Once getting through all that it has worked great.
The software is well thought out. Trains are selected directly from the JMRI roster so you don't even have to remember the loco numbers, though you can easily enter one in to run a loco that is not in the roster. The throttles and function buttons for horn etc. work smoothly. Emergency stops are easy to hit. The only downside is the touchscreen, but then its an I-phone- they don't come with knobs and buttons!
Battery life is no problem, at least for a new phone- mine will run trains for hours. But if you get lots of calls that may be an issue. I just hit the ignore button when a call comes in. I wouldn't answer the phone right away when trains are running anyway.
One more thing- got to be sure to turn off sleep mode on the laptop. If the computer goes to sleep while trains are running then you lose control.
So how do you like WiThrottle vs a regular throttle? Battery life acceptable?
I'm thinking about trying the software out since I have all the components (JMRI, Locobuffer, iPhone) just never plugged everything in yet.
Chris Palomarez
Phoebe VetEven lions cannot operate a switch machine with only one wire. Electricity needs a complete circuit to flow. I see no difference between running your common and a switched wire, and running two switched wires, and I don't like the idea of turning the power to the Tortoise on and off 30 times a second.
A BEAR BUS runs around the layout. It is GROUND.
ONE wire leaves the console and connects to the Tortoise. The tail of the tortoise is connected to the BEAR.
To the Turtle thinks he is dancing on two wires but the console only knows about one of them. The distribution cable only knows about one of them. Cable 2, Conductor 16 connects to Tortoise number 45.
It does not get any simpler than that!
Now it is feeding time at the zoo.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Phoebe VetOn the other subject, the output of your system does not result in half the voltage, it results in full voltage (minus the loss through the diode) half the time.
That makes perfect sense- didn't think of it that way.
By the way Tortoise includes this basic circuit design in their instructions (option 3) so it should be fine as long as the voltage is not too high.
Now everyone is fully caught up. As long as I have happy Tortoises and LEDs that don't burn out then pulsing DC is OK with me, but it got a bit more interesting when I put the LEDs in the signal lines.
I agree with Lion on DPDT switches, and extra wires, and doing any more soldering than I have to. It has nothing to do with cost- I am just not fond of soldering and the resulting tangle of wires.
Even lions cannot operate a switch machine with only one wire. Electricity needs a complete circuit to flow. I see no difference between running your common and a switched wire, and running two switched wires, and I don't like the idea of turning the power to the Tortoise on and off 30 times a second.
Wire is not that expensive. I seem to remember you saying you had access to a large amount of Cat 5 cable. That is 4 twisted pairs.
On the other subject, the output of your system does not result in half the voltage, it results in full voltage (minus the loss through the diode) half the time.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
Phoebe VetWith the bridge rectifier the common wire you show stops at the bridge. You have almost 12 volts between the two wires. To reverse the polarity you just reverse the wires or use a DPDT switch. You still only have two wires running around your layout. The way you have it, the common wire is still AC and is just alternating paths on the return side. The result is that your two return sides are turning on and off alternately and you have changed it from 60Hz to 30Hz because each wire is only hot half of the time.
LIONS do not *like* DPDT switches. LION likes ONE WIRE to each switch machine. Wire after all is very expensive.
HObbyguy Phoebe Vet A bridge rectifier is cheap, simple, and will give you about 10.5 volts of much cleaner DC. Yes but to get +12 and -12 volts to common using bridge rectifiers you need two power supplies and a circuit like Lion illustrates on his site. And I wanted the dual-polarity in order to use SPDT control switches (anything to reduce wires and soldering!) If I were to do it all over again I would just buy two matching 12 VDC wall warts and be done with it. It might not be as much power but plenty enough for what I plan to do. But I've got a few hours running trains now since I got the control system hooked up and I haven't had any problems. LEDs are lighting and Tortoises are cycling properly (and 0 derailments so far!) So not in a real rush to make any changes.
Phoebe Vet A bridge rectifier is cheap, simple, and will give you about 10.5 volts of much cleaner DC.
Yes but to get +12 and -12 volts to common using bridge rectifiers you need two power supplies and a circuit like Lion illustrates on his site. And I wanted the dual-polarity in order to use SPDT control switches (anything to reduce wires and soldering!) If I were to do it all over again I would just buy two matching 12 VDC wall warts and be done with it. It might not be as much power but plenty enough for what I plan to do.
But I've got a few hours running trains now since I got the control system hooked up and I haven't had any problems. LEDs are lighting and Tortoises are cycling properly (and 0 derailments so far!) So not in a real rush to make any changes.
With the bridge rectifier the common wire you show stops at the bridge. You have almost 12 volts between the two wires. To reverse the polarity you just reverse the wires or use a DPDT switch. You still only have two wires running around your layout. The way you have it, the common wire is still AC and is just alternating paths on the return side. The result is that your two return sides are turning on and off alternately and you have changed it from 60Hz to 30Hz because each wire is only hot half of the time.
But if that is what makes you happy, it's your railroad.
That is a very inefficient way to get really noisy DC. A bridge rectifier is cheap, simple, and will give you about 10.5 volts of much cleaner DC. A bridge rectifier costs about $2 at AllElectronics or about $5 at Radio Shack. Or you can buy 4 diodes and make your own.
HObbyguyI just looked at Lion's site and his simple design that I based my setup on does not seem to be posted. Here it is below. When using diodes instead of bridge rectifiers the measured DC voltage to the "neutral" leg is not 12V.
Yes, I suppose that would indeed be correct. I never built that one, I built the one with two transformers and two rectifiers. I drew that one for those who wanted to keep thing simple. It will work, but yes, the voltages would be lower than what I have written.
Even so, on the one that I am using, the digital volt meter shows 10+ volts rather than the advertized 12 volts.
Ach... You dont need no stinkin 12 volts anyway.
LION does NOT use a "neutral" leg, him uses a "GROUNDED LEG" tied to the ground system of our building. A true neutral leg would become the home of stray voltages that will begin to do weird and unnatural things to your power system,
Here is GROUND of LION system:
Here is TRANSFORMER of LION: 4kv line in; 208v "Y" out.
TRAIN ROOM is on top floor above the transformer.
jrbernier I have an unregulated 15v AC 'wall wart' for my Tortoise power supply(old charger fron something). Two large diodes are the half wave rectifier, and I get about 7 volts DC on each leg.
Yup, the only reason I bought the transformer is because I couldn't find an appropriate wall-wart in my collection. Otherwise sounds like we now have the exact same setup.
I just looked at Lion's site and his simple design that I based my setup on does not seem to be posted. Here it is below. When using diodes instead of bridge rectifiers the measured DC voltage to the "neutral" leg is not 12V.
Yes I cheated and wired the panel bi-color LEDs directly in the output wire from each SPDT control switch to the Tortoise, so using the Tortoises as the "protecting" loads instead of resistors. The output signal from the switch changes polarity when the switch is flipped to divert the turnout, so the inline LED changes from green to yellow. Quick and easy to wire panel indicators that way although there is a bit of voltage drop to the Tortoise. I'll just hold off on installing signals on the layout for now and use the aux contacts on the Tortoise and resistors when I do.
Everything is hooked up and working fine now. And with the reduced voltage at least the turnouts are slow and quiet. We'll see if this causes any problems down the road.
Yes Lion I like your site, and especially like the control schematics with part numbers. Some good ideas there. But that does not mean I will follow your designs to the letter!
_____________________________
I have an unregulated 15v AC 'wall wart' for my Tortoise power supply(old charger from something). Two large diodes are the half wave rectifier, and I get about 7 volts DC on each leg. The bi-color LED's and the Tortoise motors move quite nice. The LED's change to a 'mix' of the red/green color while the Tortoise is moving and go to a solid red or green when the Tortoise is at 'stall'. With a 850 ma capacity, I figure I can run about 50+ Tortoises off of that single wall wart....
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
The voltage drop across a bridge rectifier is only about a volt and a half. It is not true that you are only getting a half a wave. The voltage coming through the rectifier is pulsing DC but is still measured from peak to peak as it relates to the AC input.
HObbyguy My plan is to put a bi-color LED on the panel and for now a second bi-color LED on the layout for turnout indication, both wired in series with the power to the Tortoise. So far so good, but I forgot that about the voltage drop due to getting only 1/2 the wave through the rectifiers, so when I hook up the LEDs in series I am down to about 4V.
You need to look at the LION's Plan again. Him wires not thing in series with the motors.
1) There is a Common GROUND
2) There is a single control wire that is either -12vdc or +12vdc. It is this wire that will control signals, indicators, switch motors and aux relays if any. The these are all wired between the "stinger" and the ground, they are not wired in series.
3) What *is* wired in series is the LED with its protecting 1K resistor. Always think of the LED and the resistor as a single item.
Thanks fo looking at my site.
A big ROAR to ewe!
I finally have some permanent track and turnouts down and working on my control system. This is only phase 1 of the overall plan so just a few turnouts for now with a single district and a programming track (siding.) But I want to set everything up ready for expansion. I am using an NCE DCC system for train control, but planning old-school non-DCC system for turnout control using Tortoises and panel switches.
I ordered everything from All-Electronics based on the Lion's parts list for 12V turnout power supply using a single 12VAC transformer and rectifiers. My plan is to put a bi-color LED on the panel and for now a second bi-color LED on the layout for turnout indication, both wired in series with the power to the Tortoise. So far so good, but I forgot that about the voltage drop due to getting only 1/2 the wave through the rectifiers, so when I hook up the LEDs in series I am down to about 4V. Enough to drive the Tortoises but they are slow and the LEDs are pretty dim. (Lion- suggest you add a note regarding the 1/2 wave voltage to your single transformer diagram.)
Are there any issues with using a 24VAC transformer instead? I re-read the Tortoise instructions and they recommend a 14-16VAC transformer when using rectifiers, but this is without the added LEDs. With a 24V transformer it should be down to 12V across the bus, and then with the LEDs somewhere a bit under 10V half-wave at the Tortoise. Does a Tortoise care if the current flow is half wave, so rated up to 12V regardless? I don't want to hurt the Tortoises.
Also, I downloaded WiThrottle for I-phone yesterday since I already have JMRI up and running to program loco CV's. For less than $10 its a steal- wireless 2-throttle control with labeled DCC function buttons, and detailed loco and consist selection functions. And my Powercab controller still works to control a third train. Way too cool, and so far it has been flawlesst!