small stream or creek

[woodman]

I am looking for advice in putting in a small stream or creek on my layout. I have 2" foamboard on top of 1/2" plywood. Any do's and don'ts you can give me would be appreciated. I thought of taking a knife and just cutting a chunk of the foamboard away, making sloping as I cut, also I don't know if I should paint the exposed plywood, if so what color. Also, what is the best product to use to give the appearance of water? 

[cowman]

First, I wouldn't cut all the way down to the plywood, but you can if you want.  I also would plan on lining the cut with plaster or similar product.  Don't know of anyone that has used just foam for the river bottom, but there may be someone.  Keep your bottom level as most products to simulate water will flow to level and if your base is sloped, it will all flow to one end.

To color the riverbed use a dark color for the deep water portions of the river and your earth tone for shallower water.  Put the dark where you want deep water and the earth tone along the edges, then while still wet blend the two colors together.  You will get a gradual change from lighter to dark, when done right.  If you don't like the looks of it, paint it over again, no harm done.

For water, I use Envirotex Lite, two part epoxy.  You have to be sure your stream bed is tightly sealed or it will leak out (one reason to use the plaster base).  You want to cut your stream bed so that your water depth is a maximum depth of 1/2".  When you pour, you only want to pour a depth of 1/8", let it dry and then add another layer.  Three to four layers should be plenty.  To help with the illusion of depth, add a drop or two of craft paint, I used olive green, to the first pour.  Some folks also add a little (very little) plaster to cloud the water.  I used less paint in the second pour and left the top pours clear.  It takes a day between pours for hardening.  Follow the instructions on whatever you use and it should work OK. 

If you want ripples in your water, something I have not done, something like WS Water Effects is often suggested. 

One thing I do after I pour is to put a piece of paper, tented over the water, so that dust and other contaminants do not fall into the fresh surface.  I keep a piece handy and cover the water whenever I'm not running the layout.  Just keeps the water looking nice, no dust.

Good luck,

Richard

[HObbyguy]

I am working on a small stream and this is the first time for me too.  I tested a few methods and water-making materials on pieces of 2" foam on my workbench and settled on almost exactly the same methods that Richard describes.  The Envirotex completely cures very quickly even if it gets a bit thick and it is nice and clear, so its easier to work with than some of the other stuff.

I cut my test stream beds out of the foam using a circular band-saw blade.  Its easy to curve the blade so I found I could get a nice shape in the foam without going all the way down to the ply.

After lining with plaster cloth I am brushing on a thin plaster mix to make sure it is sealed.  Since I am modeling a mountain area I tried casting plaster rocks right into the stream bed and colored them before adding the Envirotex.  This came out really nice on my test panels.

For me the biggest concern is getting the colors right.  I found that adding just a little bit of craft paint goes a long way and its not obvious how it will turn out until it is all over.  But without any color added to the lower layers the water looks too clear.  I am thinking of making up another test panel to get a bit more experience before doing the pours on the layout.

Since I am currently doing the plaster work I should be ready to add the water sometime soon.  Good idea on covering it while it cures- didn't think of that.

[MisterBeasley]

I also use Envirotex Lite for my water.  My first hint is to go to the web site for Michaels (the craft store) and print a coupon for 40 or 50% off of one item.  They have one almost every week.  Envirotex Lite is not cheap, so that coupon is a real saving.  Depending on the size of your layout, you may want to get the large package.  I find that Envirotex Lite does not deteriorate with time, so it has plenty of shelf life for years of layout building.

This is the first stream project I ever attempted.  First, I dug out a depression in the pink foam, and built up the scenery around it where necessary.  It does not come out cleanly, and I didn't want the "popcorn" look that comes with roughly cut foam.  So, I used plaster cloth to cover the base.  You can also get plaster cloth at Michaels, cheaper than at an LHS, in general.  It's got holes in it, as you can see:

Envirotex Lite will find those small holes, so I did my best to fill them with white glue.  Next, I used a skim-coat of Gypsolite, a gritty plaster, and then I painted the base with cheap acrylic craft paints.  (Yes, Michaels again for the craft paints, but I buy the Gypsolite at my LHS.)

I used Woodland Scenics "talus" for small rocks, and also added some Hydrocal castings.  As everyone says, the work is all in the base preparation.  Finally, I poured Envirotex in several thin layers, about 1/8 inch per layer.  It will not harden well if you pour it deep, and may develop air bubbles which will remain forever suspended below the surface.  I tinted the lower layers with just a drop or two of craft paint.  This gives the water more "depth" because it's no longer crystal clear.

The tall grass and "shrubbery" around the edges were added after the Envirotex had set, about 24 hour for each pour.  This final picture is from around the other side of the stone bridge, where the stream is much narrower.  I used a variety of pre-made and home-made trees, planted close to the stream bed to close it in even more.

[HObbyguy]

MisterBeasley

As everyone says, the work is all in the base preparation.

I hope my stream ends up half as nice as yours.  You definitely got the textures and colors right.  It looks like you had at least some of the reeds and ground foam in place before the pours?

[MisterBeasley]

HObbyguy

It looks like you had at least some of the reeds and ground foam in place before the pours?

This was a few years back, so I don't remember the exact order.  Envirotex will creep up the sides of things, and will soak into plaster and ground foam, too.  I like to add stuff to the edges to cover up any creeping after the Envirotex hardens up.

[CTValleyRR]

So, you've got the right idea -- cut the stream bed into your foam base (you can even build upmthe surrounding terrain a little with Sculptamold. Paint the stream bed very dark brown or black in the center, and your base terrain color at the edges. Apply all the scenicing materials in and around the stream bed. If this is s small, swift flowing stream, this will be mostly rocks and some deadfall; a more gently flowing stream will have more vegetation. Then use Acrylic gloss gel (available at most art and craft stores) to make your water. This is a thick, well, gel that will NOT flow. Basically, it's WSwater effects without paying hobby product prices. Brush it on wherr you want water, let it dry, then highlight areas with gloss white acrylic paint to simulate rapids. When the paint is dry, add a little more gel over it. Works like a charm!

[mononguy63]

For this creek I first poured a soupy plaster layer - it's self-leveling and covers the plywood base woodgrain. I then glued on some plaster rock castings and applied irregular earth-toned paint washes to both the rocks and streambed. Again using thinner washes of varying shades gave a nice mottled look to the streambed that implied varying depths without trying to use my nonexistent artistic skills. The 'water' is a few layers of Modge Podge stippled on with a cheapie foam brush. I don't use Envirotex because it costs money and I'm both cheap & broke.

 

The reflection off of the glossy surface makes it kind of hard to see the creekbed, but isn't that what we want anyway?

Jim

[HObbyguy]

Has anyone tried using different water materials in the same stream bed?

I tried Modge Podge and found it works quite well, and its easy because no mixing is required.  And its thick so you can work it to get ripples.  But it takes a very long time to dry clear especially if it gets a little thick.  I haven't tried Water Effects because it doesn't seem to be recommended much here and it isn't stocked in the single small local hobby shop.  Are Water Effects and acrylic gloss gel similar to Modge Podge?

Envirotex cures clear right away, is hard after an hour or so, and is ready for the next layer in 24 hours.  But not so easy to work the surface.

I tried dabbing some Modge Podge on top of cured Envirotex to add a ripple effect similar to the picture and it seemed to work OK.  Any long-term downsides to doing this?

[wp8thsub]

HObbyguy

Has anyone tried using different water materials in the same stream bed?

The water in this scene was built up from two 1/8" thick layers of epoxy resin tinted with Testors olive drab enamel, then coated with Mod Podge gloss for ripples.  The resin sets with a smooth surface that doesn't look much like moving water, but does a good job imparting depth.  Using both materials plays to the strengths of each.

I tried dabbing some Modge Podge on top of cured Envirotex to add a ripple effect similar to the picture and it seemed to work OK.  Any long-term downsides to doing this?

Not that I've noticed.  Streams finished that way hold up for many years.