Waterfalls

[smkid51]

If you are old enough you will remember "television lamps" from the day that people thought watching tv was bad for your eyes if you didn't have another light in the room.  They were dim - maybe 40 watt bulb and decorative, usually the light passed through a plastic "shade" that had some landscape scene on it.  Really popular were ones that had ocean waves or waterfalls.  The effect of moving/falling water was created by having a moving cylinder INSIDE the lamp that rotated.  In the case of the waterfall, there were diagonal slots cut in the cylinder so light the light would seem to move down the vertical, giving the effect of falling water.  The cylinder would turn as heat from the light bulb passed through vents at the top.  I have thought of using this effect behind a waterfall on a layout.  Add a little sparkly dust to the clear "water" and it would also give the effect of spray.  A test had showed potential but I haven't developed a workable prototype yet.

[dknelson]

One feature of a real waterfall that I have seen replicated fairly well is the constant mist of water in the vicinity.  I have seen smoke units used to replicate the mist, but they are turned down so that the smoke is modest and does not "puff" but rather just hangs around the bottom of the falls.  

This is slightly off topic but years ago -- OK let's say maybe 1962 -- we used to go to a resort that had a bar and behind the bar was a lighted Hamm's beer ad that featured a beautiful water scene.  They had some way of making the water look like it was moving and shimmering.  It might be that the interior surface of the plastic on which the photo was printed had groved lines -- so it was a lenticular -- in the way of some old cheap Cracker Jack toys that would look like a horse was a bucking bronco if you moved the little picture back and forth- and the interior light source moved back and forth, so the waves looked like they were moving gently.

I see some advertising of the very sort I recall being sold on Ebay http://www.ebay.com/bhp/hamms-motion-light

Anyway it is surprising that nobody has figured out a way to bring this technique to model railroading.  I imagine someone has but it would not photograph well, you'd need YouTube or a GIF to do it justice.

Dave Nelson

 

 

[mlehman]

Hi Richard,

Sorry about the delay in getting back to yoru question. I've tried to find my tube of it without success, so can't give you an exact brand name. I did get it at Hobby Lobby, so it's widely available. It's silicone and I got the impression it could be used both to make molds so that decorations could be done easily in multiples and that it could be used as a substitute for the icing in cases where things were delicate enough to justify using it.

Not sure if it's "gel" or not. The right stuff won't be cheap. IIRC I paid in the $7 to $8 range for the tube I got. It should indicate that you can mix colors in with it.

[Grampys Trains]

Thanks, Richard. Yes to the clear sealant and white dry brush. The blue color is a reflection  of my blue backdrop. DJ.

[cowman]

Grampy,

Beautiful photos.  Did you just use the clear sealer, then drybrush the white on the face?  Is the color brushed on, underneath or reflection, like the real world?  Knew I had seen reference to silicone sealer being used, your work shows it can do a spectular job.

Always enjoy your photos, water or not.

Thank you,

Richard

[Grampys Trains]

Bob, here's a couple of shots of my waterfall made from silicone sealant on wax paper. DJ.

[cowman]

Had this thread in my "favorites" for when I was ready to try to make a waterfall.  It's been over nine months, so I figured I'd reserect it instead of having the others have to rewrite what they had written here already.  It may also help some folks thinking of looking up the subject.

Mike, you mentioned cake decorating silicone.  First, is it the stuff that is called "jel" used for writing on a cake?  Second, did you use white or were you able to find clear?  Sounds like you had a clear, as you mentioned adding white paint to it.  Third, how specialized was the store you got it at, bakery, craft store, grocery store?  At my grocery store the girl just looked at me and said she didn't think silicone sounded very edible.  I  had to agree.

Thank you,

Richard

[mlehman]

Richard,

Thanks for your comments.

Mine is a little different. I made up the polyfill rolled in plastic wrap. I formed the top part that fits as a lip to the plywood base of the stream and glued it with epoxy off the layout. When it was set, I placed it, then cut the front of the plastic vertically. I folded the plastic wrap back on either side of the polyfill, which helped protect the adjoining scenery. Then I drizzled on the resin as described previously in three pours. When things were set up, I trimmed the plastic wrap back for best appearance, leaving it where it was stuck well. Then I worked woth silicone and paint highlights.

[ollevon]

Thanks Richard,

   Once the vertical strands are in place, the high gloss enamel is sprayed on next, let dry. The last step is to drizzle  on the EnviroTex    "  sparingly."

   Sam

[cowman]

Mike and/or Sam,

Do I understand correctly that you put the fiber in place then pour the envirotex (or other resin) over the vertical strands?  If so, then I assume that not all of the fibers are covered by the resin, unless sprayed with the gloss enamel.

Both of your falls look terrific.

Thank you for sharing,

Richard 

[ollevon]

The way I made my waterfall, is very similar to Mlehman's. Instead of poly fill, I used that stuff people use to make spider webs around their house for Halloween.  I first tease it all in place. Once I'm satisfied with the look of it, I then spray it with clear high gloss enamel. When that dried, I then drizzled Inviro-Tex on it and let run down the falls. The Inviro-Tex  does not cover the whole thing, just streams of it here and there. Just enough to give it some sparkle.

 Hope this helps.

  Sam

[superbe]

This thread has reminded me of a member who hasn't posted in a long time, Grampy's Trains (DJ).

He has made some wonderfull waterfalls. I have one in my files but feel like I shouldn't post it without his permission.

I hope he is A-OK.  Does anyone know?

Bob

[mlehman]

Peter.

Thanks! Only been to Canada a couple of times, but the wife and I enjoy it, so some of the sceneray may have rubbed off. There was plenty of time for that on our honeymoon trip. We took the "Tour of the Line" on the Algoma Central in May from the Soo to Hearst and back

Yep, we're both that geeky. She likes trains, too. She ripped my cassette recording to digital of Animas Rover sounds along the line south of Silverton I made back in 96 or so. That's on a MP3 player and a set of computer speakers, one at each end of the aisle, as the two water features are at opposite ends of it from each other. I need some more waterfall-y sounds for the big one, which I call Cascade Falls, though, for it to really sound great. I keep it low, so it works fine and will be especially effective when I get over there with my new LED lighting, which you can see on the second page of The Night Scene:

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/213765.aspx?sort=ASC&pi314=2

My trees are a mix, but the predominant ones I use are Busch 189-6499 100 count pine tree asst. I also like the Heki pines, which are somewhat bushier. Then I've used a few Grand Central Gems Spruce trees lately and really like them, as they have a more detailed structure than the German brand ones. Mixing them up in terms of brand/appearance and height is important. That's a big part of the forced perspective in the second set of lower falls.

[HO-Velo]

Mike,

Great scene and great work!  Makes me think Canadian Rockys.  I like those conifers too, were they difficult to make?

Regards,  Peter

[mlehman]

John,

I appreciate your comments!

The poly-fill and resin combination is a little tricky to set up, but once you start pouring it just works to give an airy sort of feeling to the water. Actual artistic skill is minimal, other than having a good picture of it in your mind or otherwise available for reference.

[JohnB.]

Mike, I have to say the is one of the best looking waterfalls I've seen in a long time.

[bogp40]

I happened across this technique, the results are quite convincing

http://www.thewhistlepost.com/forums/tips-tricks-techniques/7916-waterfall-tutorial.html

[DSchmitt]

NP01

NittanyLion

Can't make small water.

You ever seen an old war movie that the used model ships and there's these huge blobs of water flying around?

Can't make small water.  That's why.

Aint that the truth. Real water just won't look right. 

It is also difficult to keep where  want it, is destructive to other scenery and the trains when it gets away,  needs treating with chemicals so it doesn't harbor unwanted growing things and bugs,  and it evaporates.

It does work on large G gauge outdoor garden  layouts as part of the landscaping, and many years ago there was a G gauge latout with real water in the middle of a Sacramento CA area shopping mall that was quite spectacular.

[NP01]

NittanyLion

Can't make small water.

You ever seen an old war movie that the used model ships and there's these huge blobs of water flying around?

Can't make small water.  That's why.

Aint that the truth. Real water just won't look right. 

[NittanyLion]

eaglescout

Texas Zephyr,

Gee, if real water doesn't convince you I don't know what can.  I am rather surprised more folks don't incorporate real flowing water with a small pump on their layouts.

Can't make small water.

You ever seen an old war movie that the used model ships and there's these huge blobs of water flying around?

Can't make small water.  That's why.

[mlehman]

Recorded sounds are as close as I want to get to real water on my layout. Outdoors is a different matter...

[eaglescout]

Texas Zephyr,

Gee, if real water doesn't convince you I don't know what can.  I am rather surprised more folks don't incorporate real flowing water with a small pump on their layouts.

[Texas Zepher]

Another thing I recently noticed about some water features (water falls, and just rivers or creeks), they look great in static pictures but not so good on videos.   I've seen all sorts of attempts to animate the water from real water to a rotating aluminum foil drum underneath.  None I have seen are umm umm convincing.

[mlehman]

Dennis,

Thanks!

Your comment reminds me of another tip. Arranging the "launching pad" is critical. There are dramatic falls like my first pics and others that are more sedate, falling over a series of intermediate steps. The terrain they spring from has to match, as well as on the way down. Then you can do the little green swirl at the top, etc to fit. Here's a more stair-stepping set of falls and whitewater, just they silicone on top of the resin.

The last little bit at the top is really tiny, with a coved backdrop behind it, where the forced perspective worked out pretty well..

It was kind of tricky, but as the resin of the first and second pours set up I was able to form and shape things. That's why you want just enough to anchor and add a bit of a "sticky armature" at first. Second pour lets you fill that out and then the third one pulls it all together. The poly-fill is white and gives most of the foaming water effect, then the resin makes it "wet."

I can't emphasize anough how great the cake decorating silicone worked for me. I tried Mod-Podge and it was going to take forever. The silicone whipped right up with some white paint. It's a little tricky, but you're just highlighting so the thing is mostly about keeping things small and numerous for best effect.

[chochowillie]

mlehman

After the last pour hardened, I trimmed the plastic wrap back so it couldn't be seen, but still provided a support with the hardened resin. I added more painted highlights, along with using some silicone that is used for making cake decorations. You can mix paint into it, so I added lots of white highlights by vertical smudging it on.

Now that my friend is one amazing waterfall!!! I particularly like the view from the side because you have totally mimicked a real cascade. Amazing work. 

Dennis

[mlehman]

This is how I did it. I used polyfill batting, like is used for cheap stuffing in pillows and craft projects. I took a piece and formed it to the rough size needed, plus extra at the top and bottom to anchor and teas out respectively. I wrapped it in clear kitchen plastic wrap.

I then attached it to a lip of brass that happened to fit where I needed it disguise a gap in between liftouts. I use clear plastic casting resin for my rivers, so worked the waterfall in after get the river right and leaving a way to slide in the brass lip. I cut open the front of the plastic wrap top to bottom and tidied it up.

Then I mixed and poured the resin in about three pours IIRC. The very first one was just enough to get it attached and was a nice green to show dense water. The other two were almost clear and went over and down the "falls". I also did some highlighting with white.

After the last pour hardened, I trimmed the plastic wrap back so it couldn't be seen, but still provided a support with the hardened resin. I added more painted highlights, along with using some silicone that is used for making cake decorations. You can mix paint into it, so I added lots of white highlights by vertical smudging it on.

What's critical is teasing out the strands of polyfill and the way they sort of worked together by the resin. Somehow it came out darn good, so it's not my skill so much as the materials. The resin is a little stinky, but not as bad as it used to be. B glad to answer any Qs.

[superbe]

Bob,

If the wax paper idea doesn't work I read where one of our fellow forum mmebers used clear scotch tape and left it on the tape.

Bob

[farrellaa]

Practice, practice and then practice. I had planned to add a waterfall on my layout and read of a great idea but haven't tried it yet. He used one of the water products or possibly gloss medium gel and brushed some on a sheet of waxed paper using long strokes. When it dries it is supposed to peel off the waxed paper leaving a transparent flexible 'water' that can be placed vertically on the waterfall model and finished with more of the 'water material'. It sounds like one of the better ideas, but as I said, I haven't tried it yet. Just a suggestion as a starting place.

   -Bob

[CTValleyRR]

All the methods you mention are at the tricky end of the scale. Try Woodland Scenics water effects or acrylic gloss gel (Liquitex is a common brand).. Both products are milky when applied, but dry clear. You can apply one layer, apply white acrylic paint highlights, then a second layer of you product, with quite convincing results. On most layouts ( including my old one) waterfalls are amont the most attractive scenic elements. Naturally, you're not good at making them, especially if you go in with that attitude. Practice a few times, on a simple diorama, and you will quickly develop the technique.

As for your other pbjection, well, except for those few of us who have one of the street systems to make vehicles move, nothing else does either. Vehicles are static, people and anilams don't move unless we physically relocate them, and plants don't sway in the breeze.