Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Removal of background images

5403 views
20 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: California - moved to North Carolina 2018
  • 4,422 posts
Posted by DSchmitt on Friday, March 1, 2013 5:36 AM

richhotrain

So, did Clever Models find the guy who was stealing and selling their images?

Rich

One of the posts I have read, not on this Forum said "apparently everyone favorite thief is back again"  and  "all references to him and his "products" were removed by all isp's/web sites last year, apparently there is one dumb idiot out there who got suckered, again". It also referes to Tomkat-13  and has a link to the removed thread on this site.  It is a confusing post with cut and paste of messages from several people on several forums.  

 I beleive the person who made that post is not affialated with Clever Models, but is (like me) a purchaser and fan of their fine products.

Tomkat-13 has been a member of this site since 2005 and started his Sign thread in 2009.  I don't know when he started his Background Building thread , but am sure it was at least several years ago.   Roughly  counting  the copies I made of his buildings, he must have made in the neighborhood of 280 posts to that thread.  I  He has,  at last count, posted on this Forum 1585 times to many threads, and is a valuable member of the Community.

I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.

I don't have a leg to stand on.

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Friday, March 1, 2013 5:16 AM

So, did Clever Models find the guy who was stealing and selling their images?

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: California - moved to North Carolina 2018
  • 4,422 posts
Posted by DSchmitt on Friday, March 1, 2013 5:14 AM

richhotrain

DSchmitt

 

I doubt the the reaction to Tomkat's thread would have been the same if they had not mistaken him for the person who was stealing and selling their material.  He meant no harm.  Also, although I have purchased every model and more than half the textures made by Clever Models, I did not recoginize any of their material in Tomkat's posts.

 

How could that happen, mistaking an innocent forum member for the person who was stealing and selling their material?

If that is the case, maybe Tomkat has been libelled by Clever Models.

Dunno, this thread makes little sense to me.

Rich

It's kind of confusing, but I got the impression that the person who told them about TomKat assumed he was that person and implied he was  selling images.  He did use some of their copyrighted material without acknowlegement which is apparently a violation of the law.  I doubt they were harmed by his use, but the situation got blown out of porporation.

Basically it was lack of communication and a big misunderstanding.

I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.

I don't have a leg to stand on.

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Friday, March 1, 2013 4:53 AM

DSchmitt

 

I doubt the the reaction to Tomkat's thread would have been the same if they had not mistaken him for the person who was stealing and selling their material.  He meant no harm.  Also, although I have purchased every model and more than half the textures made by Clever Models, I did not recoginize any of their material in Tomkat's posts.

How could that happen, mistaking an innocent forum member for the person who was stealing and selling their material?

If that is the case, maybe Tomkat has been libelled by Clever Models.

Dunno, this thread makes little sense to me.

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: California - moved to North Carolina 2018
  • 4,422 posts
Posted by DSchmitt on Thursday, February 28, 2013 10:12 PM

CTValleyRR

Let me start by saying that, a ) I never saw the thread in question, and b) I believe that Tomkat was motivated by an honest desire to help others and not profit. Tomkat, don't get defensive or testy -- you made a mistake, you've come forward with this thread as a mea culpa, which you were under no obligation to do. As far as we're concerned, you've done the right (and mature) thing. So don't ruin it by pleading ignorance. Western culture is pretty strict in its views on intellectual property. To pass off someone else's work as your own, even if you don't intend to profit by it, is at best dishonest, certainly unethical, and usually illegal. Even sins of omission (where you just don't admit that the work is someone else's) are generally wrong.

 

True, but:

I doubt the the reaction to Tomkat's thread would have been the same if they had not mistaken him for the person who was stealing and selling their material.  He meant no harm.  Also, although I have purchased every model and more than half the textures made by Clever Models, I did not recoginize any of their material in Tomkat's posts.

I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.

I don't have a leg to stand on.

  • Member since
    May 2007
  • From: East Haddam, CT
  • 3,272 posts
Posted by CTValleyRR on Thursday, February 28, 2013 7:59 PM

Let me start by saying that, a ) I never saw the thread in question, and b) I believe that Tomkat was motivated by an honest desire to help others and not profit. Tomkat, don't get defensive or testy -- you made a mistake, you've come forward with this thread as a mea culpa, which you were under no obligation to do. As far as we're concerned, you've done the right (and mature) thing. So don't ruin it by pleading ignorance. Western culture is pretty strict in its views on intellectual property. To pass off someone else's work as your own, even if you don't intend to profit by it, is at best dishonest, certainly unethical, and usually illegal. Even sins of omission (where you just don't admit that the work is someone else's) are generally wrong.

Just to let you know the extent of the problem: my wife is an English professor at the college level. A year does not go by during which she does not flunk at least one student for turning in a paper with large blocks of text copied directly from the Internet. In one case, a student submitted a Wikipedia article, without even bothering to correct the spelling and grammar. A word to the wise: if a teacher asks you to turn in a project or paper, it's a safe bet that he has read the Wikipedia article.

Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford

"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: west coast
  • 7,667 posts
Posted by rrebell on Thursday, February 28, 2013 7:20 PM

Ignorance of the law is no excuse (just saying), ask any cop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Member since
    January 2005
  • From: ARCH CITY
  • 1,769 posts
Posted by tomkat-13 on Thursday, February 28, 2013 5:42 PM

1st I never sold any image! I made these for my own layout & shared them with the forum. These buildings were kit-bashed from many sorces, a door from here, a window from there, texture, signs, ect from all over the net. I ment no harm to anyone just to help others in their modeling. I now understand it was wrong & I say again I will not post anymore images unless they are my own. tkat

I model MKT & CB&Q in Missouri. A MUST SEE LINK: Great photographs from glassplate negatives of St Louis 1914-1917!!!! http://www.usgennet.org/usa/mo/county/stlouis/kempland/glassplate.htm Boeing Employee RR Club-St Louis http://www.berrc-stl.com/
  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Gateway City
  • 1,593 posts
Posted by yankee flyer on Thursday, February 28, 2013 4:44 PM

richhotrain

leighant

mobilman44

What's a segue?

I understand a segue to be a transition to a followup.  I think what the thread is missing is an introduction.  It begins in the middle of something that has been discussed somewhere else, maybe offline.

Exactly

I thought it was a two wheel machine that you stand on and go places.  Whistling Smile, Wink & Grin Laugh

Lee

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, February 28, 2013 4:00 PM

leighant

mobilman44

What's a segue?

I understand a segue to be a transition to a followup.  I think what the thread is missing is an introduction.  It begins in the middle of something that has been discussed somewhere else, maybe offline.

Exactly

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: California - moved to North Carolina 2018
  • 4,422 posts
Posted by DSchmitt on Thursday, February 28, 2013 3:18 PM

Tomkat -13 enjoys making images of bulding fronts for use a backgrounds on model railroads. He posted them on this Forum for others to copy and use. He obtains the elements for his creations from many sources including some which are copyrited

One of the copyright holders (Clever) has had major problems with a particular person stealing their materal and selling it as his own. They were aapparently able to get the thief shut down.

Someone saw Tomkat-13's thread and notified the copyright holder that "the thief is back" and claimed he was selling the copyright holders work.  The copyright holders reaction resulted in the thread being removed.  

I believe that Tomkat-13 and the copyright holder are both really victims in this situation.  Tomkat-13's "crime" was basicly that he did not acknowlege where he got the material. 

 I believe his statement that he has never offered any material for sell.

As I suggesed previously Tomkat-13 should contact them to discuss the situation.  Had they been contacted previously thay might have ok'd the posting on this Forum as long as their copyright was acknowledged. (I don't know if they would have, but it would seem to be good free advertising for them.) They also have a section on their website where they host work like Tomkat-13's (that uses their copyrighted material) for free download.)

 

 

I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.

I don't have a leg to stand on.

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: Omaha, NE
  • 10,621 posts
Posted by dehusman on Thursday, February 28, 2013 2:38 PM

As far as I can tell the OP was copying artwork from the website of a company selling sheets of signs and posting it on this forum for people to print out sheets of signs (which means they wouldn't need to buy the signs from the company that produced the artwork).

Evidently the OP just recently tumbled to fact that that could be considered stealing or piracy.

I always wondered how long it would take for that thread to run afoul of the graphics company.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

  • Member since
    August 2002
  • From: Corpus Christi, Texas
  • 2,377 posts
Posted by leighant on Thursday, February 28, 2013 1:41 PM

mobilman44

What's a segue?

I understand a segue to be a transition to a followup.  I think what the thread is missing is an introduction.  It begins in the middle of something that has been discussed somewhere else, maybe offline.

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, February 28, 2013 7:24 AM

mobilman44

What's a segue?

 

About 4 ounces.

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: Southeast Texas
  • 5,449 posts
Posted by mobilman44 on Thursday, February 28, 2013 7:16 AM

What's a segue?

 

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, February 28, 2013 5:37 AM

I'm confused.

There is no segue into this thread.

What happened?

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    August 2003
  • From: Collinwood, Ohio, USA
  • 16,367 posts
Posted by gmpullman on Thursday, February 28, 2013 1:50 AM

Hi, Tomkat

I have been a frequent user of this site...

http://www.cgtextures.com/

You can download a certain amount of images (15mb) per day and if you "sign up" it allows you to access the higher resolution scans. All at no cost.

I use CorelDRAW to paste, duplicate resize and print. I've made interior walls, rugs and one of my favorites is to print out tar paper roofs and apply them to buildings. Browse around the site and see if there's something there you can use. Oh, the venetian blinds are perfect for some Pullman lounges and other curtains and window shades are handy, too.

No copyright problems if you get the image from their site directly and use it personally.

Have fun, ED

  • Member since
    August 2011
  • From: A Comfy Cave, New Zealand
  • 6,250 posts
Posted by "JaBear" on Thursday, February 28, 2013 1:25 AM

Gidday tomkat 13, I totally agree with DSCHMITT, in fact I'd go further and say that the attack made on yourself was not only ill informed but vitriolic and smacks of a lynch mob mentality.

I would concur that our hosts had no option but to remove your post, possible breaches of copyright are a serious matter no matter where, but if this is Truth, Justice and the American Way, thank goodness I live in New Zealand. 

Cheers, the Bear

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

  • Member since
    January 2005
  • From: ARCH CITY
  • 1,769 posts
Posted by tomkat-13 on Wednesday, February 27, 2013 5:47 PM

All who know me on this forum know that I just shared the images. I never sold or tried to sell anything. Again I say I'm sorry for this & will not post any image that is not total in my own making. tkat

I model MKT & CB&Q in Missouri. A MUST SEE LINK: Great photographs from glassplate negatives of St Louis 1914-1917!!!! http://www.usgennet.org/usa/mo/county/stlouis/kempland/glassplate.htm Boeing Employee RR Club-St Louis http://www.berrc-stl.com/
  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: California - moved to North Carolina 2018
  • 4,422 posts
Posted by DSchmitt on Wednesday, February 27, 2013 5:06 PM

Perhaps you could contact Thom at Clever to discuss the issue with him.  There are some harsh comments in their Discussion section.  While you violated their copyright with some of your postings, I think they may have overeacted mistaking you for another person,  a thief who was selling copies of their products as his own.

This is Thom's last post on the subject:

"Just to be very clear on our position on this sort of sharing.... If you create something that uses our material in whole or in part and wish to share it FOR FREE with the community. All we ask is appropriate recognition "Textures by Clever models www.clevermodels.net" or some such with the web address. We have no issue with that. We will happily host it here for download giving you credit. (just as we do with the 3d models made available for train simulator games) I think that sounds fair. February 26, 2013 | Thom"

I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.

I don't have a leg to stand on.

  • Member since
    January 2005
  • From: ARCH CITY
  • 1,769 posts
Removal of background images
Posted by tomkat-13 on Wednesday, February 27, 2013 3:55 PM

They were removed because of copyright on the texture & images (Textures by Clever models www.clevermodels.net) . I was not aware that this would be a problem as I'm not an expert on the laws. I was just trying to help others in their modeling. I now see that they are in the business of making texture for kits & by me using some of their textures I could be taking away possible sales. I am sorry for doing this. tkat

I model MKT & CB&Q in Missouri. A MUST SEE LINK: Great photographs from glassplate negatives of St Louis 1914-1917!!!! http://www.usgennet.org/usa/mo/county/stlouis/kempland/glassplate.htm Boeing Employee RR Club-St Louis http://www.berrc-stl.com/

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!