Capt. BriggYou can tell it is S-steel because a magnet will stick to it and it is very shinny and silver color. The flex track is much stiffer than Nickel-silver and holds a curve when not held down while nickel-silver wants to snap back to straight.
As others have mentioned, it would be somewhat surprising if it were stainless steel. The ease of bending is no indicator, that has more to do with the way the ties are attached. Nickel-silver Atlas flex bends easily, nickel-silver MicroEngineering flex is very stiff.
As others have noted, with a rail of undetermined composition and unknown oxidation issues, it might be prudent to keep it in easy sight and reach if it must be used.
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
All track/rail is subject to oxidation, and for all kinds of rail "hidden" and inaccessible locations are a constant problem. So you do what you can to minimize that problem. One way is to invest in very advanced track cleaning tools/cars/methods. But another would be to choose track for that location that is minimizes oxidation. The wise man does both, and more.
That suggests that our friend should use his supply of stainless steel flex track where he can see it and get to it, and use nickle silver in that hard to reach location.
And by the way sometimes the best way to minimize the oxidation problem is to run your trains alot -- a rather nice price to pay actually {"but honey ... I gotta run trains to prevent oxide build up! Really!"}
Dave Nelson
Unless anyone can offer to do an assay of the steel in question, I don't see how any of us can respond definitively. I can say, if I were the asker and knew that I had steel rails of an unknown quality, that I wouldn't dream of using them in a place the least bit difficult to access.
Crandell
I think the OP is more interested in the potential build up of oxides on the track and the long term conductivity problems between the rails and the wheels that oxidization might cause.
Any information on that specifically?
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
I've never tried it on this specific rail, but most of what I read about soldering copper to stainless, as in copper wire to stainless steel rail, says to use special fluxes, silver solder and a flame source like a propane torch to heat it. Regular steel can be soldered easily, but it has to be very very clean, as in freshly wire brushed.
In short, try it before putting track down. Your results may vary.
As far as surface conduction, a locomotive wheel on a rail is really a rolling contact. Stainless is used for contacts in very harsh environments. It should work.
There are many forms of Stainless steel based on how much Chrome, Nickel, Manganese, Molybdenum or Tungsten is added to the iron based metal. (alloys) a further classification based on grain structure in the finished metal separates the many alloys
All stainless steels have rotten conductivity. Some are actually used as resistance elements in heaters!
The two basic types of stainless steel are martensitic and austenitic. There is a rarer ferritic stainless, as well.
The common stainless steels we encounter are generally of the austenitic type. (302 and 304) Austenitic stainless steels are NOT magnetic.
Rarer, are the ultra hard stainless steels which are either martensitic or ferritic and all of these types are magnetic.
As Mike notes, it is a matter of how far apart track feeders are as to how well electricity will be conducted to a loco. The terrible conductivity of SS is not an issue with close feeder connections.
I know all this as I have been forced to work with various stainless steels as part of my electrical engineering career where conductivity and magneitc issues arise.
Richard
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so it can't be fixed
Capt. Brigg:
Thanks for clearing up my understanding of the various grades of stainless steel. I was going on recommendations made to me when I was in the market for a stainless BBQ. I was told that if a magnet will stick then it isn't 'real' stainless steel. I wrongly inferred that if it was magnetic it was not stainless steel at all. Now I know better!
I hope you did not take offense to my question about whether or not you had missed a word. After I thought about it a bit I realized that your magnetic referrence proved that it was not nickel silver, which of course is not magnetic.
Takes me a while some times!
Capt. Brigg The possible PROBLEM I am looking for an answer to is the oxidation conductivity on the surface of stainless. Will it stop conducting after it oxidizes? I've been running a DCC engine on it for a couple months with no problem and no cleaning. Capt. Brigg
The possible PROBLEM I am looking for an answer to is the oxidation conductivity on the surface of stainless. Will it stop conducting after it oxidizes? I've been running a DCC engine on it for a couple months with no problem and no cleaning.
Capt. Brigg
Hi Capt.
In terms of keeping the rails clean I see no reason why the "Gleam" method would not work. Jeffery outlined it yet again in this thread and I'm sure you can find other threads on Gleam as we have discussed this a bunch.
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/p/213039/2334868.aspx#2334868
I don't know if anyone has tried to Gleam SS before but you could follow all the steps and then just use a SS polish for the ones indicated.
Derek
Most model engine wheels/tires are made of brass, nickel silver or sintered iron.
Stainless steel wheels or track is very rare.
I haven't ever come across it/them myself that I know of.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
The stainless is easy to cut with my dremmel tool (not so easy with a saw) and I haven't had a problem soldering to every section of flex track. Stainless can also have nickel as part of the compound. The possible PROBLEM I am looking for an answer to is the oxidation conductivity on the surface of stainless. Will it stop conducting after it oxidizes? I've been running a DCC engine on it for a couple months with no problem and no cleaning.
Capt. Brigg FranklinUSCG Licensed Marine OfficerCertified crazy train chaserCEO: Pacific Cascade Railway
Stainless Steel is an alloy of steel and chromium(about 10%). It will eventually 'rust', but does hold up rather well(one reason those Budd built stainless steel passenger cars lasted so long).
The electrical conductivity of steel is less than your typical n/s track, but should not be a problem. cutting stainless steel may be an issue(if that is what this track really is), and soldering feeders may be an even bigger issue. I know Gar-Graves has made hi-rail trackage with stainless steel. If a magnet does stick to it, it does have some iron content. I would be concerned about putting that stuff in an hidden or in-accessible area until it is a proven product. Maybe a yard area when you can replace it later if it is a problem.
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
I'm not an EE (wife is, though ) and no experience with SS track. As far as conductivity goes, SS should not be an issue if somewhat less than NS, This only becomes a factor if the section of track is a long way from the wire feeding it.
That said, I would think it might be difficult to attach feeders to SS track. Have you tried soldering to it before you get too far?
If that's not an issue, which I suspect it isn't with high iron content, then you still want feeders attached to every section of track. You don't want to rely on rail joiners to conduct. So the farthest away a feeder might be is not too much farther than 3'. I do solder short sections of track at the joiners when needing a short extension and feed that way, but otherwise I run feeder drops to my bus on every section of track.
Thus, if you do add plenty of feeders, any shortfall in conductivity will be unnoticeable in most applications.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Just a little information about stainless steel. There are several different formulas of stainless. Those for marine use have a very small amount of iron in the mix and usually will not be magnetically active. That's why a part purchased from West Marine costs ten times as much as one from Home Depot and doesn't easily rust. The part from the big box store has a larger portion of iron, like my stainless rails, and will rust much sooner, but costs much less. The stainless refrigerator in question must be of the latter variety of stainless. Aluminum also will not rust and is not magnetically active. That's why sailboat masts are make of aluminum.
My rails are stainless steel of the less expensive variety, hold a magnet and will probably eventually rust. Since I was told that when they oxidize they will not conduct electricity to my engines I am trying to find the truth of the statement. Are not the wheels on must model railroad engines also made of stainless steel?.
Captain Brigg FranklinUSCG licensed marine officerPacific Cascade Ry in HO gauge
Why would a magnet not stick to stainless steel? My stainless steel refrigerator has a bunch stuck to it right now. Could you be thinking of aluminum?
"The Stainless Steel flex track was produced in Italy or at least by Riverossi. You can tell it is S-steel because a magnet will stick to it ....."
Capt. Brigg - just a minor clarification. Magnets will not stick to stainless steel. I suspect that is what you meant to say?
Capt. Brigg You can see an auto cad image of the layout at http://home.comcast.net/~pacific.cascade.ry/PCRy.htm Capt. Brigg
You can see an auto cad image of the layout at http://home.comcast.net/~pacific.cascade.ry/PCRy.htm
Just made your link clickable
The Stainless Steel flex track was produced in Italy or at least by Riverossi. You can tell it is S-steel because a magnet will stick to it and it is very shinny and silver color. The flex track is much stiffer than Nickel-silver and holds a curve when not held down while nickel-silver wants to snap back to straight. On one of my previous posts here, we (the on line community) identified and decided it is S-Steel. My main concern was laying it in a hidden area under a mountain where it will be difficult to clean by hand. Most of my visible track and turnouts will be hand built and laid nickel-silver, but is electrically isolated with gaps from the steel. You can see an auto cad image of the layout at http://home.comcast.net/~pacific.cascade.ry/PCRy.htm
I was not aware that anyone made a stainless steel flex track.
I was aware of makes of trainset quality sectional track, some of it with the plastic integral roadbed, where the rail is plain steel. In theory this should create a risk of rust (not a risk with stainless steel obviously) yet I am not aware that it is an actual, versus theoretical, problem. Certainly many Lionel layouts run for years without problems, after all.
The proof of the pudding is in the eating and it sounds like the track has proven to work for you. That is as good as any theory in my book.
If you really have stainless steel rails, you are rather well off. I would not rate it as less conductive than nickel silver, although I am not a chemist or metallurgist. However, NS does oxidize, and the oxide, while conductive, is less conductive than NS itself, and must surely be worse than clean stainless steel.
I would have no compunctions about using it. Just lay it aligned well at each join, feed it often with 22 gauge feeders, and use a good power supply. The rest is good old fashioned fun if the motive power is decent.
I have a box of stainless steel code 100 flex track, therefor I would like to use it on my newly being built HO layout. I just finished reading Allan's "Wiring for DCC" page on Track and wire resistance and several other web sites on the conductivity of stainless steel and find that while S-steel is less conductive than Nickel-Silver It's not all that much worse. What I have a question about is the effect of oxidation on the S-steel. I've been told by our club "expert" that when it oxidizes it will not conduct. I've been running a DCC engine on a test loop of stainless track for a couple months with no problems so far. On board vessels I use stainless extensively for its non-rusting properties, and have not found a problem with conductivity. You ground your mast through stainless keel bolts. If you have previous experience with stainless track or are an electrical engineer I'd appreciate your opinion.
Capt. BriggPacific Cascade Ry in HO gauge