Might I suggest a few things that come to mind?
First, don't be afraid to make a mistake. That is what they make sawzall's for! Also, don't let the benchwork part scare you either. I am a property manager by day and we use relatively cheap saws to do pretty tough jobs and they last a long time. You can probably buy a good circular saw for less than $ 50. I would NOT recommend taking wood to the home store to get every cut made for you. You will find that you waste a ton of time driving and my guess is you will give up long before you get anywhere.
Instead, why don't you ask the customer service desk at the local home store if they offer any "beginner" classes for working with power tools. My guess is that you are more intimidated by the tools and losing fingers than you are by building the benchwork. If that is the case, don't be embarrassed to ask for a little education! We all started out as rookies! The 2 big box home improvement stores that come to mind regularly offer different clinics on Saturday mornings in my area (I think they are free, too). That is a great opportunity to get introduced to power tools while being taught to cut/measure. Lesson one - count your fingers before you start and learn to keep them all! Lesson two - measure twice and cut once.
Final thought for now - it sounds like you are getting analysis paralysis. About a year ago, I took the hobby back up after a couple decades after my son expressed some interest in model railroading. We joined a local club a year ago and just started building a home layout. The club is a GREAT resource on so many levels, with the first being the opportunity to talk to more experienced members about the topic of the day. Second, you gain use of a large layout as well as an opportunity to work on different parts of the layout to gain some skills. Jump back in and enjoy the hobby!
Yes, that first 4x8 was a Woodland Scenics Kit. I used what I learned building it to build the rest of the layout. I also learned that the Bachmann EZCommand you also see in the picture was a mistake. It has been replaced with a Digitrax Super Chief.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
Thanks for the pics. I noticed the Layout Kit box in the 1st picture. Was that layout designed using one of those Woodland Scenic kits I see for sale everywhere? I've been debating possibly using one of those depending on how complex they are. I figured it would be an easy way to learn and achieve a nice end result at the same time.
Here is a passenger train running along the front of that 4x8 segment, which you can see is now part of a much larger layout.
I built a 4x8 HO to start. This is an old image. It now goes around my 2 car garage, but this 4x8 section is still embedded in it. It works OK for freight, but passenger cars would be too long for it.
I run passenger, but not around the interior of this section.
Oh, That crossed my minder earlier today lol.
Does anyone run modern freight cars or passenger cars on a 4x8 HO layout by chance? Would like to see some pics of this being done to see how "bad" or "unrealstic" it looks.
On a sidenote how does one really choose between HO and N when you're open to both? They both have strengths and weaknesses so when you put them on paper they almost wash each other out. Thankfully I'm a few weeks ago from the benchwork being built so I've got time to decide. This morning I was fully onboard with N and this afternoon I wanted to go back to HO. I'm sure I'll change my mind again later tonight too :)
lol
Build two layouts one n and one ho. There ya go you now started.
I think I'm leaning towards N now based on various replies here especially since I want to run a modern passenger train with about 25-50% of the layout being an urban setting.
I think my last question (for now) pertains to the HCD or 4x8 benchwork method and what's best for me considering what I've said above. I also would like to make the train appear to have some height at one point in the layout by going over a "bridge" that could technically be the same height as the rest of the track. I figured it would be easier to dig down into foam than it would be to build up to achieve a hill with track correct? The HCD method concerns me for drilling though. If I ever want to run wiring underneath the layout I'd need to go both through the foam and door to achieve this right?
Also, DCC is the method most train shows use right where they control the phsycal train and not the overall current on the track powering anything that's on it at the time? I do want to have two loops and thought about making them connect to each other (just because).
I may still go with N but I'm going to google some HO 4x8 layouts to see them before I rule it out. I think the tight turn will make my trains look weird though.
Thomas is available in HO, I have not seen him in N. Thomas is easily lifted from the layout when the child is not around and will thrill him more than you probably expect when running. I have hidden staging inside a mountain where Thomas and Hogwarts Express live when my grandson is not running trains. At age 5 he is slowly developing a desire to run the real trains.
N can be a challenge for small fingers or old eyes, but does allow more trains per square yard of benchwork.
Don't be imtimidated in any building of the benchwork or cutting of the wood.Really all that's needed is a "half decent" skillsaw a cordless screwgun and a few hand tools. An inexpesive Chopsaw will help tremendously over having a novice making square cuts w/ the skillsaw. Yes you can use a combination square or jig as a cutting guide, but the chopsaw will make cuts faster, cleaner and these are available fairly cheap now. Ryobi, Skill, Craftsman etc all will have a base model and run about $50. I've even seen them at Harbor freight for less.
I do tend to forget that many can be quite intimidated w/ woodwork, Being a finish carpenter/ cabinet builder for 40 years tends to skew my thinking a bit. "Why can't anyone hang a door- it's not that hard!" Ya, like the IT guy tell me to rip out and change my harddrive and reinstall the operating system, right!! All in all the benchwork isn't that difficult you should be fine.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
Thanks everyone. Here's my garage (typical 2 car design I believe) which shows where the door and walls are. The shelf layouts are the size of the ones you typically see at shows right? They are very narrow from the wall to front (typically a foot or two max)? An HO layout would require a pretty large section at each end to turn the train around right? Also, I'd like the option of still being able to park the car in here whenever possible.
Welcome back.
A typical 4x8 is often used for a starter layout, later replaced with something larger.
Since you have a larger area available, can you do a shelf layout around your walls, leaving you room for a penninsula(s), if you want to add later. A shelf layout actually takes up little floor space compared to a table. Around the walls allow you much larger radius good for the longer cars. 2' wide allows you to be able to reach the full width of your benchwork and if you need a wider spot, figure 30" is about the most you want to try to reach across, depending on your height and the height of the layout.
As for scale, cases have been made for both above. You are young and probably have decent eyesight to work in N. Sounds like you may not do much scratch building. Kits and complete structures are available in both scales as they are in rolling stock too, so you choose how much you want to buy and how much you want to put together. You can get a lot more (nearly double) the amount of N in a given area. The question is really based on what you want to do. See if you can find some layouts to look at which will give you some ideas. If you go to RESOURCES on the thin gray line at the top of this page, then go to Coming Events and Model Railroad Groups, to find places in your area, where you will find people that are in the hobby.
Because you haven't done much yet, you are in a very good position. Get some books on getting started in the hobby either from our host or at your local hobby shop (LHS). There are several good overall books and then some more specific ones in areas you want to look into further. Do some reading, then come back with some more ideas and ask questions. The folks here are just waiting to lend an electronic hand.
Good luck,
Richard
Thanks for all the replies. I've seen a few questions so here are my answers (Lemme know if I forgot one).
1) My son won't actually be "playing" with this layout. It's more for dad (me) to get back into the hobby with and see how I enjoy it again and if I have the time to do it. He'll have a Thomas layout which he gets for Christmas that he can setup and play with on the floor.
2) An interesting topic got brought up regarding passenger trains. I will definitely have one of these on my layout. My thought was two ovals side by side with a siding or two possibly. I remember the 4x8 being pretty tight for the HO Atherns Amtrack cars I have right now. If I read this correctly a 4x8 or even 7x3 HCD using N scale would be the perfect size for such a train? I'll be operating diesel trains and no steam unless it's just for fun. I plan on doing an urban setup in the center and possibly a mountain with trees in one corner.
3) I don't own a saw so my thought was visiting a local hardware store and just having them cut each piece to the size needed if I built my own benchwork. I like the stain idea btw. Glad you suggested that.
have worries,
Thomas trains are great fun for your kid, probably enjoyed most (by him) on the floor. Surely enjoyed most by him when he is allowed to play his fantasy. Which is quite differently from dad's railroading.
Modern equipment can be about 90 ft long, in HO about one foot. The required radius will be something like 30". On most "normal" 8 x 4 layouts an 18" radius is used. Suitable for shorter and older cars ( 50' s) of a maximum length of 50 ft. In N-scale however that 18" radius is great for long modern cars and engines. Probably a 15" radius would do too in N-scale.
A 7x3 hollow core door (HCD) would be a great table when building a modern pike in N-scale. To accomodate a 30" radius in HO the table will grow to a staggering 13x6. With a maximum reach-in of 30" such a table seems not the best choice,even if you have access to all sides. Building your layout on a shelf along the wall might be the way out.
Do not fear the saw, benchwork is not the tricky part. I am a bit confused however, are you building your layout or just enjoying your son playing off the floor?
BTW code 83 refers to the height of track; 0,083 part of an inch! So code 83 track in N-scale has the same height as code 83 in HO. Today most are using code 100, 83 or 70 in HO, depending on personal taste or by their wish being prototypical. Code 100 for heavily used mainlines, code 70 for branch lines or yards. Some even use code 55 or 40 track for spurs, all in HO.
In N-scale code 80 was the norm, today most prefer code 55, comparable with heavy mainline track in HO. Code 55 snap track is made commercially available the last decade in N-scale by most larger producers.
Smile
Paul
0 - welcome back!
1- Make sure you can buy your son's favorite cartoon engine in your newly picked scale!
2 - Benchwork isnt all that intimidating...check my photo.. just buy a circular saw, get a good pencil, and a carpenters square .. then glue, some screws, and a screw gun...and you're set. I prefer to use 1x4 for table work. I find they are lightest. I also have a 3/4" paddle drill bit to drill nice holes for wires underneath the layout. For your garage layout you want to make sure you bench work is well supported. The changing temperature and humidity can warp your benchwork, and thus reak havoc on your track. I stained my wood then assembled my benchwork so it was a little more protected. Also, no need for a heavy sheet of plywood for your layout on top of your benchwork... get a piece of foam board, big box stores sell it in 4x8 sheets for around $16. It's light, easy to poke/drill for electrical, will not change due to temp/humidity, and it helps silence engine running - and probably just as... if not less expensive as wood depending on which plywood you might have choosen. I cutsumized the height of my layout so bikes could be stored under it, and my car door could open wide enough to get in/out comfortably. I have a 1 car garage, so space can become an issue so you might also want to consider these options. Oh, also, use screws, not nails. If you use screws, you always have the option of easily disassembling the layout if need be. Lastly - If you use those big foam sheets instead of plywood, be sure to pull off the thin plastic sheet/layer that's on both sides. It will get you in the end if you dont! Be sure to pick your layout before you build benchwork.. I used the orange "101 layouts" book, which was pretty good.
3 - I obviously model in N... never modeled in HO but i have done my fare share of asking questions in this forum about how different HO is from N. It sounds like as far as trackwork / rail joints / soldering / etc that the two are pretty much the same. Code 83 N isnt much different from various HO codes, this I am told. I like N becasue of size... you can fit twice as much on a layout with N. The real reason I like N, is because I like passenger trains and those cars require wider radius turns to look real, and with N 4x8 is just enough space for those required radi.
back to the fascinating world of model railroading!
Just a couple of answers to your questions:
N scale is about half the size of HO scale, or, to be correct, HO scale is 1.84 times bigger than N scale. This means, that N scale has about a third of the space requirement for a layout than HO scale. Or you can build a much more generous layout in N scale on the footprint of an HO scale layout.
N scale´s biggest advantage is its size, which is also its biggest drawback. It may be too small for a three-year old to enjoy. Handling of HO scale equipment is much more comfortable. Adding to that, HO scale has more options and choices.
Commercially made benchwork is expensive, but building benchwork yourself is not that difficult.
I´d suggest to get some books on how to build a layout - look for beginner´s books in the shop section of this web site.
There is a also a video series, showing how to build a typical beginner´s HO scale layout - just click on the this link:
World´s Greatest Hobby
Have fun!
You can always use hollow core doors for your base, supported by timber framework. My doors are attached to the bearers with long galvanised roofing screws, with washers to stop the screw heads digging their way into the doors. A bit of plaster or foam over the top and you'd never know they are there.
I used cheap 2ndhand doors and timber from recycling depots.
Mike
Modelling the UK in 00, and New England - MEC, B&M, D&H and Guilford - in H0
I'm 30 and my 3 year old son is interested in trains thanks to Thomas The Tank Engine. I want to do a modern style layout (N or HO) in my garage. I live in Oklahoma if that matters. The garage has insulation but is not heated or cooled for the record. First, I'm not a contractor by any means so was going to try to find someone local to build the benchwork if possible. My father built my previous benchwork. My only requirement is that it hold up and be sturdy.
My questions are this:
1) N or HO Scale? What are the positives/negatives to both? How much room do I save on a rectangle layout (in depth) by going N instead of HO? Is it significant or no?
2) Are there affordable companies out there that sent you all the materials (wood, parts, etc) to build your own benchwork? The ones I've seen are $300+
3) I'm so overwhelmed with starting again I'm not sure where to start after building benchmark. Any suggestions or tips?