Foundations

[railandsail]

Foamboard, Gatorboard

Just ran across this interesting posting by a gentleman who seems to know a lot about these products.

Gatorboard - Laminated Polystyrene & Luxcell - Gatorfoam® foam board is an extruded polystyrene foam board bonded between two layers of Luxcell wood-fiber veneer. It is very stiff, rigid and heavy duty, yet a versatile foam board which is perfect for many model railroad structural uses. It comes in thicknesses from 3/16 to 2 inches thick! Most modelers have never seen Gatorfoam. It is used in sign shops, and is only sold retail at a few art suppliers. 

Ultraboard - Laminated Polystyrene & Styrene Face - UltraBoard is a premium sign material which has styrene facing instead of Luxcell, however, due to the flexible nature of styrene, it is not as rigid as gatorboard.

Foamcore - the common "Paper-faced Foam Board" you see everywhere. It consists of three layers – an inner layer of polystyrene foam clad with front and back outer facing of either a white claycoated paper or brown kraft paper. It is Vulnerable to moisture - Warps and very substandard inexpensive foam board compared to other boards. Craft people find ways to use it and like it, but doesn't have permanency of other products. Ideal uses - temporary structures, mockups, templates etc

[railandsail]

cowman

Another source of sheet styrene is your local sign shop.  Mine will order anything I want or cut a piece of his stock if he has what I need.  No shipping charges, a local business and I can see what I am getting.

Thanks again for all the suggestions,

Richard

 

I was just looking for a discussion of these technics of using 'foundation boards', and thankfully arrived at this one.

I recently discovered a sign shop nearby me that had a lot of scrap 'foam board' that I had previously know as 'gator board'.

[Medina1128]

For elevated foundations, I've used plywood or dimensional lumber with strips of styrene glued to them. Painting and weathering and they're done. For lower ones, I've used 1/8" thick birch, available from Michaels. I paint them various shades of "concrete" coloring, depending on the type of business. 

[dknelson]

cowman

Another source of sheet styrene is your local sign shop.  Mine will order anything I want or cut a piece of his stock if he has what I need. 

Richard

 

And they will often give away misprinted or "typo" signs.  A friend picked up an inch thick stack of plastic signs where the three color process had somehow gone bad during the run.  I am still working off the supply he shared with me.

Dave Nelson

[hornblower]

You can also tightly wrap the underside of your structure in kitchen plastic wrap, then press the entire structure down into a thin layer of wet plaster and/or ground cover and leave the structure in position until the plaster/ground cover dries.  Once dry, remove the structure, remove the plastic wrap, then replace the structure into the shallow depression in the scenery.  The structure foundation will look as though it is "in the ground" because it is!  The overlap of the scenery depression around the structure base will also stop light from leaking under the structure.

[Blazzin]

cowman

I have seen posts referring to making foundations for buildings so that they don't look like they are sitting right on the ground.  The only material I can remember being mentioned is foam core board, but not how it was done.  Do you cut a full piece the footprint of the building and dress the edges, somehow, to look like poured cement or blocks or do you cut a strip the height you want your foundation, using the surface of the board for the outside part of the wall? 

Any suggestions of techniques or materials appreciated.

Thank you,

Richard

  You really didn't say if you were modeling in N scale or HO scale.  I model in N scale and building foundations are different in some ways.. mainly because of the size N scalers have to deal with.

  I must admit I've seen some nice tips in this thread.  Wayne and Mister Beasley come to mind right off hand and more than likely I will integrate some of those ideas into my layout.

  Richard,  I added your quote at the top of my reply because when I read it,  well it seemed as if you were talking about 'Party Foam'.  Go to any Craft Store and ask for the Party Foam,  there will be quite a selection to choose from.  It comes in many colors, different sizes and you can even buy it in a bulk pack real cheap.  It also comes in a few size thicknesses but I use the 1/8th inch thick version.  Did I mention easy to cut, as well as paint?

  Here is what I do.  My diorama's come off the layout.  The houses also come off the layout.  I like to add some sort of foundation as well as the ability to 'fine tune' the house in terms of it being level.  The foundations can be seen or not seen. IN this particular pic,  you can see two faint images of Party foam.  One acts as a foundation the other acts as flooring but holds the building in place.

   Now I did say the foundation can be seen .. or not.  Depends on the building I guess.  In this pic, you can see the foundation is not seen, and on the corner building the flooring acts as a step in the door-way.

I can also use combinations of Party foam as well as brick pattern styrene.   What I do is attach Party foam to the 'inside' of the building to act as a floor as mentioned before.  The actual diorama is made out of foam core board and cut out on three sides only.  The forth acts as a hinge,  the other three sides are cut and sanded to allow brick pattern of styrene to be placed in between.  Not only do I have a brick foundation but I can add a foundation to that building or a sidewalk... in which the building can be attached to.  It also aids in leveling the building.  Push or pull the brick foundation to you are satisfied with the correct angle.

Then I cut out my idea of what a concrete area and sidewalks,  and just lay it inside the brick pattern styrene.

  Now that can be glued to the diorama as well as keeping the building in place.  Yes,  the Party foam holds the building in place.  Where a larger building needs more Holding Power,  I will add two inside pieces of Party foam to hold the building in place.  Only the Party foam is glued to the layout,  the inside Party foam will hold the buildings in place.

  Now sometimes I like to go back and add interior to the inside.  What a better way to secure the building,  be able to lift it off and add interiors.  The actual foundation is glued to the layout, but the 'inside / flooring ' can and will be secured at a later date.  Then all I have to do is glue the flooring the the foundation.  With the building STILL in a fashion as to take it off the layout for added details or interiors.

  Here is the underside.

  Here is the flooring,  with a triangular pattern painted yellow.  I figured light flooring would help the viewer see the insides.  Also, using thin wood and a Xerox copy of some books on a shelves. I made the inside 3D shelving to add to the features of the building.

Glue in 'inner wall' to the building.  Glue the book shelves to the flooring..

And get this effect.

  All my buildings are attached in this manner using Party Foam.  They stay put,  and I can always take them off at any given time.

 

[randythawkins]

I made a lego mold and poured plaster into it.  Worked pretty good for me.  Scroll down this blog entry and you can see the steps I used - http://coffeevalleyrr.blogspot.com/2010/01/smitties-engine-shed.html

[chochowillie]

doctorwayne

Dennis, the plastic to which I was referring is white styrene.  Look in the yellow pages under Plastics Suppliers

Thanks for the info Wayne. I'll check the yellar pages. I have to say that you are some accomplished modeler Wayne. Your work is absolutely beautiful. I only wish my shaky hands would allow me to be so accomplished. Oh well, at least I try

Once again thanks for the info and great look at your work.

Dennis 

[cowman]

Another source of sheet styrene is your local sign shop.  Mine will order anything I want or cut a piece of his stock if he has what I need.  No shipping charges, a local business and I can see what I am getting.

Thanks again for all the suggestions,

Richard

[wsdimenna]

to get hillside look on foam base, I make razor cut into scenery.  I use foam base and no plaster so its very clean. Add wet fiber to base, ground covers and let dry.

photo below shows building before sealing with some clear caulk

[doctorwayne]

Dennis, the plastic to which I was referring is white styrene.  Look in the yellow pages under Plastics Suppliers.  It comes in various thicknesses:  the first sheet I bought was .040" thick, but all subsequent ones have been .060", as I find the thicker material requires less bracing when building large structures.  For bracing, I usually cut strips from the sheet, then cement it on-edge to the structures' interiors.  I haven't had to buy any for a while, so I'm unsure of the current price, but I'd guess somewhere between $20.00-$30.00 for a sheet.  You won't require a truck to take it home, either:  they simply roll it up and tape it - you could take it on the bus if you had to.

I use a utility knife to score along a metal straightedge and/or framing square, then snap along the score lines.  Since I use so much of the stuff, I use lacquer thinner as the bonding agent - it's cheap, easy to use, and gives a good bond, plus it can be used to thin lacquer-based paints, clean brushes and airbrushes, and strip paint from brass models.
Here are a few structures built utilising the .060" material.

GERN Industries is a kitbash of a Walthers ADM Elevator, with the add-on silos and their Redwing Milling company, plus lots of sheet styrene for the warehouse, most of the tall building against the backdrop, and the back of the former Milling building.  Since my layout is an around-the-room design, most of the structures use .060" sheet for the unseen walls, allowing longer or deeper structures by using the extra walls where they can be seen.

National Grocers was built from DPM modular walls, but all the roofs, unseen walls and interior bracing is .060" sheet styrene:

This is the rear (normally unseen) of the foreground building in the National Grocers complex:

...and the bracing for the roof:

Here's the site with the structures removed:

The P & M Languay factory was built using most of the walls from two Walthers Waterfront warehouse kits on the visible side:

The roof, unseen walls, interior bracing and lower floor street-front entrance were all made from .060" sheet:

Because the tracks aren't parallel to the wall or layout fascia, most of these background structures are irregular shapes:

I had some wall material left-over from Languay's, and made this truncated version of the Evell Casket Company.  The visible sliced-off wall:  more .060" sheet:

Also visible in the first photo of Languay's is the main railroad station in Dunnville.  It's seen here again, and in addition to the station in the centre, there's an express department in the wing on the left, and a Post Office to the right:

Here's a closer view:

...and the interior bracing:

The doors and windows are left-overs from Languay's (there are two complete sets of windows with each of the warehouse kits), but the rest of the station is simply .060" sheet styrene.  I scribed the exterior to represent Ashlar stone blocks, layering some areas to give it some depth and detail.  A good-size station for only a few bucks.

Wayne

[cowman]

Thank you all for the ideas.  Looks like the ususal several ways to do something in model railroading, so some experimenting to find MY best fit.  As mentioned there are different foundation materials, which will present more possibilities, 

Jim, hope to see you in Springfield next month. 

Thanks again,

Richard

[chochowillie]

doctorwayne

sheet styrene for foundations, and buy it in 4'x8' sheets

Wayne, is the sheet styrene you buy the same thing as plexeglass you buy at HD or Lowes? All these different plastics confuse me.

Next question is what to use to glue/weld the seams?????

Dennis

[dknelson]

For certain structures and situations you may want to explore an idea I wrote up for my Frugal Modeler column in the NMRA Midwest Region's "WayBill."  Here is the version as on the NMRA website

http://www.nmra.org/member/sites/www.nmra.org/files/SR201105_FrugalModeler.pdf

And on the Waybill website

http://www.mwr-nmra.org/region/waybill/waybill20111spring.pdf

Basically I create a base for the structure and then take very thin foam rubber, dyed a green or earth shade (or I supose the color of concrete foundation), and cut it to shape for the edges of the structure.  The foam rubber fills the gaps of the slightly irregular ground.  In other words, it is a sort of flexible gasket.  I affixed that gasket to the base, not to the structure ( you could but I anticipate having to replace the gasket from time to time).

The article does not mention this, but this idea works best with my scratchbuilt structures which are, frankly, a bit over-engineered and rather heavy.  For a very light wood or plastic structure i would probably have to add weight to the structure to make the foam rubber gasket snuggle down and fill the gap.

Dave Nelson

[MisterBeasley]

For my urban buildings, I cut styrene sheet to fit around the base so that the structure itself actually sits inside and just slightly below the sidewalk.  That hides the base and prevents light leakage beneath the building.

For this scratch-built structure, I cut two courses of stone foundation from a hydrocal stone wall casting and attached the structure to it.  I've since found that a razor saw is a good tool for cutting hydrocal castings like this.  It's probably not great for the saw blade, though.

 

[hon30critter]

Good thread. Great ideas.

Dave

[bogp40]

While we're talking about foundations, I would like to give a suggestion for keeping the structure located exactly on the base.  Once you have fabricated the foundation of your choice, use small dowels, round toothpicks etc at the inside corners. This will keep the building just where it's intended yet can be easily removed for nearby work or some housekeeping. You can use blocks, however I find that the dowels, tilted slightly inward allows easy replanting w/o fumbling and wiggling the structure to drop it back in place.

[ctyclsscs]

I do something similar to Lion. I make a foundation using fairly thick pieces of Evergreen styrene. Then I paint it, glue it in place and build the scenery up to it. That way I don't have to worry about smearing plaster, dirt or ground foam on the building itself. Then after the scenery work is done, I have a flat solid place to sit the building. I also add small blocks in the corners to hold the buildings in place.

Jim

[selector]

I used strips of extruded foam or even styrofoam from packaging.  In the image below, it is the latter kind painted with acrylic paints.  The steps were of extruded foam.

Crandell

[BroadwayLion]

Nice.

Our farm-monk for many years was Br. Placid Gross. I named a grain elevator on previous layout after him. I called it "Gross Grain".

Br. Placid is still around but we have gone out of the farm/ranch business.

ROAR

[doctorwayne]

I much prefer .060" sheet styrene for foundations, and buy it in 4'x8' sheets, as it's useful for many other things, too.  Simply make an open box in the size and shape of the structure's footprint.  Brick buildings would sit directly atop it, while most wood and metal buildings would overlap the foundation slightly.  If you use solvent cement to assemble the foundation, allow it to harden fully, then file or sand the corners to make the joints invisible.   You can also add a styrene floor to strengthen the entire structure or where a floor is needed for interior details, as in the first photo below.

Wayne

[BroadwayLion]

Foundations are in isle 7.

No wait! what era is the building that is going to sit on the foundation. Rebar and poured concrete is more recent, our church sits on field stones. Modern buildings sit directly on Styrofoam. Well, ok they are Styrofoam forms that are are set up and then the concrete is poured into them. They are left in place providing insulation on both sides of the wall. For most buildings I might use some dimensional wood to fit under the building and then paint it as concrete. Seldom on modern buildings does the concrete esxtend beyond the wall, but this is common for other construction such as stone.

If I were building a structure that required a stone foundation, I would set it in place and then build up a bit of stonework around it.

LION has also printed stone and brick work on his color laser printer and pasted them to a board upon which the structure sets.

Look at pictures of the structures and then think to yourself what you might do to make something that looks like that.

ROAR

[cowman]

I have seen posts referring to making foundations for buildings so that they don't look like they are sitting right on the ground.  The only material I can remember being mentioned is foam core board, but not how it was done.  Do you cut a full piece the footprint of the building and dress the edges, somehow, to look like poured cement or blocks or do you cut a strip the height you want your foundation, using the surface of the board for the outside part of the wall? 

Any suggestions of techiniques or materials appreciated.

Thank you,

Richard