I have only, in the last year and half, returned to MR after a 15 year hiatus and that means going to every train show to play catchup. I can't help but both enjoy and question the dealers in the pre-built, super high scale structures. You know the ones that are often seen on a 1 foot by 1 foot pad with scenery around the building, etc. These puppies cost $250-400 ! Are there real MRs that plop down the cash for those? While I haven't hung around their tables, I have tarried long enough to not see anyone actually buy and walk out with one. I do realize that some of these are built up displays from very high priced kits that are offered for sale by these same dealers.
I am familiar with dioramas which have been around for sometime, but these are more like single structure scenes. Are they to be layout drop-ins? Or stand alone scenes for a mantle?
We all can appreciate such fabuous work, but such efforts were for scratch builders when I was last in the hobby. Are their so few scratch builders or just well heeled MRs with no spare time to do such things? I'll not dwell on the costs of kits or structures in general. That dog don't hunt here, but what must others here think of these finished masterpieces being offered for sale?
Richard
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so it can't be fixed
I think you may be referring to Woodland Scenics Built-and-Ready structures?
Like many other "Ready-to-Run" products today, it seems that too many people would rather pay a premium price for something that is already totally built instead of scratch building or putting together a simple kit. Just a sign of the times. Instant gratification, and all that mindset.
This is the kind of thing that could erupt into a flame war of the `Kit vs RTR' sort, so I'll try to be as non-inflammatory as possible.
There are some people who are railroad modelers, whose interest is to build (often from the scratchest of scratch) absolutely magnificent one-offs, buildings, rolling stock, even such mundane things as the ultimate country grade crossing. Once it's finished, they lose interest in it and press on to the next endeavor. That is one source of those one-building dioramas.
There are some members of the model railroading community who can drop half a kilobuck, as casually as I would spend six bits, on whatever caught their fancy that week. Frequently they work at professions where they get paid by the breath, not the hour. They want that beautiful (fillintheblank) but can't see spending a bunch of their high-value hours getting it. Now you have customers for those one-building dioramas.
Some of the superdetailed craftsperson (yes, I'm being PC) kits cost $250-$300 unassembled - or even more if they have been the subject of an E-Gadbay bidding war. George Sellios and others continue to produce them, so somebody must be buying them.
To people like me, who have to squeeze to afford Atlas flex track, tis a pozzlement. Fortunately, this hobby can accept such diversity and thrive on it.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - on a frayed shoestring)
Given that I see the same vendors over and over at some of the larger train shows, there must be a market for them. When you consider that RTR locomotives in HO are now running as much as $400+ with discount, paying $200+ for a well detailed structure doesn't seem out of line. The Woodland Scenic pre builts are pretty nice and are less than $100.
Personally, I can't afford it and I enjoy the kits in any event. But I can see folks with little time and adequate income buying these. For a lot of people, having an operating layout is the thing not the building.
Enjoy
Paul
I have to admit that I too am a little puzzled when I see those structures for sale. Several thoughts come to mind:
1. Some are contest models that the builder decided to part with...There is a group of modelers who just build super detailed models for NMRA and especially narrow gaiuge convention contests. These structures are detailed to the Nth degree and are by any standards, museum quality....I do see some of these for sale on Ebay etc from time to time. I think this is where most of the dioramas are coming from.
2. Some are from expert modelers changing scales...A buddy of mine sold off all of his super detailed craftsman HO scale structures when he switched to S scale.
3. If there is a business out there selling these I am wondering how the math works out...Many of the kits are in the $200.00 plus range and the time to assemble is enomous...At a sale price of $400..00 that works out to a very low hourly wage.. I have noticed that when one tries to sell built structures on Ebay the sale price often ends up very low, especially if you consider the time and expertise that went into construction.
Personally I wouldn't put one on my layout as I am cheap and I like to build my own stuff...
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
I have met people before that got $1000 or more per built-up regularly. There are those that pay that much for some kits. This is a whole other market that some just don't seem to understand much like the brass market.
Sure, these models are for sale, but they are also very eye-catching displays, and they draw a lot of traffic to that dealer's booth. Although he may not sell the skyscraper, the extra traffic probably helps him sell other items.
Remember, when you go to a boat show or a car show, the pretty girls in bikinis aren't for sale, but they sure catch your eye.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Richard: There are many like me, who are still active model railroaders at age 75, but lack the manual dexterity to build kits much any more. I have two hands (thank the Lord) but my fingers suffer from arthritis and holding some tools, or parts that are small with tweezers, and so on become very difficult when your fingers and joints are stiff and don't have a lot of strength. 20 years ago I was scratchbuilding, kitbashing, so on, and have the MMR award from the NMRA to prove it. But today I sometimes struggle to re-rail a derailed car, so if something comes along for my layout, which is three decks filling a space of 36ft by 30ft, and it is ready built, and my budget will allow it, I buy it, otherwise I go without altogether.
I worked hard to end up with a good retirement plan, and though we still have to budget, we do fine as far as basics and esstentials. But our health while good is limited. My wife, who is 6 years younger can still do scenery, can make things, with some effort, but we don't, can't, won't subject ourselves to building nice things that we can purchase ready made.
Bob
I have been selling detailed common plastic building kits on Ebay for a few years now and use this money to pay for my mrr purchases. Being retired, I don't have a lot of money to spend on 'frivolties' when my electric bill is $200 a month. I take inexpensive plastic kits and detail and weather them for sale. I spend as much as 10-16 hours on some and they sell for $10 to $75 each. Not much of an hourly rate, but it pays for my hobby. I have seen some of the 'super detailed' craftsmen kits and they are truly magnificent and worth the asking price; I just can't afford that kind of stuff. I will save my 'earnings' to buy a DCC sound loco for $200 but not a building. I am 71 now have been having difficulty with my vision and dexterity, so I can understand why some will pay for these models. You just have to have the want and the cash!
-Bob
Life is what happens while you are making other plans!
tomikawaTT This is the kind of thing that could erupt into a flame war of the `Kit vs RTR' sort,
You go back far enough in the history of the hobby and there was a certain amount of dismissive sniffing at the guys who bought their power supplies ready to run rather than built their own from scrounged parts in a steel box they formed themselves.
We all have our priorities and speaking personally, I am looking at the prospect of having to scratch built or significantly kitbash an entire layout's worth of structures because I want to come as close as I can to absolute replication of my prototype city. This is a daunting prospect. if I came across a decently built version of one of my structures I think I'd pay a handsome price for it just to be able to check one structure off my huge list. It isn't due to lack of ability but to the sinking feeling that I have set myself an impossible task. Even if I wasn't in that position if I saw a structure that was exactly what I wanted, and could have it now, even if I could equal or exceed the craftsmanship I might consider the tradeoffs involved of buying already built and pay the money.
Some guys feel the same way about rolling stock. For example if you are one of those who like Bill Darnaby will no longer tolerate cast on grab irons or ladders or "claws" that hold the boxcar doors in place, and every coupler has to have a lift bar and so on, and yet you want to operate a full schedule of trains, either you have to devote yourself to rolling stock building or modification for some period of time, which may not be possible or palatable, or you have to buy. And the cars that meet your standards might be pricey.
My point is that it isn't just age or inability that causes a guy to pay high prices for quality assembled items.
And there can be other factors at work too -- here in Milwaukee a very well known model railroader had a health condition under which even a small knife cut or jab from a screwdriver that slipped meant days in the hospital trying to stop the bleeding. It was scary. He willingly bought RTR and even hired guys to build most of the layout for him. The alternative was not to model railroad at all.
If I imagined myself being a seller of assembled scratcbuilt structures or kit rolling stock, unless I enjoyed almost giving the stuff away I think I'd have to charge a large sum because I am a slow and methodical worker. What seems like a daunting sum to the buyer or onlooker is still probably peanuts to the seller/maker.
Dave Nelson
My original posting was meant more as a commentary regarding that someone is apparently making some sort of living selling $400.00 and above single structures. Not that they were outrageously priced or that some MRs were nuts for buying them. Instead I was wondering just how common and how many MRs are actually buying such prebuilds?
Not many, so far, have owned up to the fact that this is a normal practice for them. Certainly I know of no one personally who has ever bought one, but then I don't know hundreds of MRs personally. That's why I threw out the query.
As a narrow gauger, I'll probably scratch build a large fraction of my structures in the normal tedious fashion. I can certainly appreciate those who can't or will not build kits or scratch build, but also realize they are willing to part with large sums, more than most, due to infirmity in some cases and others, having very good incomes and valuing their time more than money. I have no animosity or envy for folks who build or buy such structures. I just wanted to get an idea as to why and how many folks might be paying the long buck for fancy, super scale pre-builts.
One must also realize that model railroaders run the gauntlet of wealth from the very poor to the very rich, the very rich can buy what they want!!!!!!!!!!!!! The very poor build have to build what they want!!!!!!! to whatever degree they feel like it.