Hello all,
As a college student, my time for model railroading has waned as I have encountered working on the real thing---forging a career working with GE and locomotives. I built an entire 4x8 as most beginners do in high school and learned the techniques of building a layout. I focused on the ATSF in the 50s as a small branchline outside Chicago in the midwest which allowed for generic scenery and not too many complex mountains.
I have run across layouts such as the Boggs Landing and Trotwater, Inyo & White Mountain, and San Juan Central which has decent resources on the web. Having lived in Colorado for the summer working for UP, I have really taken an interest in mountain railroading.
From your knowledge, are there any layouts/photo documentation of decent, small apartment sized layout (one bedroom apartment, so no spare bedroom, it would go in the common room) to provide inspiration for my next project? I am a fan of having a continuous run option, so a point to point shelf isn't really my forte.
I certainly am bummed that all my sound DCC equipment is 1950s Santa Fe, but gives me a reason to start shopping again I guess. :)
Thanks for the help! I'll try to dig up some photos of my old layout.
Gidday, to the forum.
Don't know if this rocks your boat but Big John is making a pretty good job of utilising a small space here:
http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/t/206468.aspx
Hope it gives you some inspiration.
Cheers, the Bear.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
Routeofthechiefs
Enjoy
I found some good ideas in the Downloadable "Time Saver article".
Cheers...
Chris from down under...
We're all here because we're not all there...
I don´t know what an apartment-sized layout is to you, so I assume that your layout cannot fill an entire room. It would help us, if you could provide us with an information on how much space you have actually available for your layout. The best would be to post a drawing of your room here, so we can guide you in the right direction.
If you do a search using the key words " small layout", "track plan" and "HO scale", you get get tons of pages in the web.
Kalmbach, our host, has also a track plan database, which you can enter, providing you are a subscriber.
Happy searching!
MR just did the Virginian layout for a small mountain layout on a 4x8.
Kevin Klettke made his Washington Northern blog with a small layout based on a MR plan i think. Either way i really like it plus im sure its plan could be adjustaed with MTs instead of say a paper mill or the city.
Lots of ways to get continuous run in a smaller room in ways more efficient that a rectangular walk around table - e.g. dumb bell shape, water wings shape, doughnut shape (possibly all around the walls), smaller scales (you can do return loops with nice radius on a 30" deep shelf based on a hollow core door pushed up against two walls).
Too little information in your post to see what would be viable for your available space and interests.
This is how I fitted a H0 scale urban switching layout w/continous run into a room 6.5 feet x 11.5 feet big, while being able to still use the room for it's original purposes (storage/small workshop):
Not even close to your desired prototypes, of course - neither Santa Fe nor mountain railroading - just an illustration that a layout can be fitted into a small room in many ways - they do not have to be on a rectangular table.
Smile, Stein
Check out this site of the late Carl Arendt especially the small layout scrapbook
And welcome to the forums.
Paul
Thanks for the advice all, some good links to look through. Any thoughts on more small layouts with mountain scenery?
In regards to the size, I'm pretty sure the Living Room is about 12'x14' or so, but not entirely sure. It is a living/kitchen area and I will probably try to build a small dogbone or layout on one of the walls. The biggest constraint is that I will only be in the apartment for six months before accepting a full time job and moving again. So while I would like to start working on something, I would hate it to be a wasted effort. I know these things aren't easy to move. (Not a fan of modules however, just not into that scene)
I'll attempt to get measurements tomorrow. Pictures won't come until move in the first of August but I would like to have a plan in place before then.
RotC - I think you are trying to square a circle here. In HO scale, a 4 by 8 layout is regarded as a small layout, but it requires a much larger footprint. You need to have access to at least 3 sides of it, enlarging the space requirement to 8 by 10. This certainly blows the possibilities in a student apartment.
If you are planning to move in 6 months, I would not waste time and effort to plan a layout for the current premises. Instead of planning, I´d recommend you to get some good books on how to design and build a layout and start the process once you have moved into your new place.
Another option would be to build a truly transportable layout. A 4 by 8 really isn´t movable by one person. This would require a change in scales - N scale has a lot to offer these days! mcfunkeymonkey has built a charming little layout in N scale, measuring only 23" by 41", take a look at it here:
Mt. Coffin & Columbia River RR
Although you are not into building a modular layout, it is certainly worth looking at it. There are many ways of building a modular layout, including a "Quick & Dirty" way of building a mini-modular layout, based on a really simple method, which is ideal for apartment dwellers. You can get info on that here:
My layout
Even a small layout is a sizable investment in terms of time and money, so you should carefully consider which route you want to go.
Modules and sections are not the same thing. A layout built in sections is built in parts that can be taken apart and transported. Modules are sections that have a standard interface, so any two modules (built to the same standard) can be fitted together.
Modules place some limitations on where the track can cross the module boundaries. Sections are just a way of building benchwork that can easily be disassembled and moved - e.g. to be taken outside for painting things, or to be moved to other places. If you want a transportable layout wouldn't disregard out of hand building it in sections as a possible solution.
Neither would I disregard going to N scale. A 30" deep x 5 foot long layout in N scale is about the functional equivalent of a H0 scale layout that is 54" (4 1/2 foot) deep x 9 foot long. With one crucial difference - you can reach across 30" of depth in a way you cannot reach across 4 1/2 feet of depth - so such a layout could be placed up against a wall.
Of course - a lot depends on what you want to model, how many scenes you want to model etc. A rectangular layout with a center divider splitting it into two different scenes will need room for aisles along both sides of the table. And human operators are the same size no matter whether the trains are 1:87.1 scale or 1:160 scale.
Also - I think it probably is futile to look for a ready made plan that will fit exactly your space and your desires - it is often better to create a custom plan for your space and your desires.
Hi Routeofthechiefs
Some idea on size would be handy.
You can go down as far as 4'6' square and still just about make a workable US style HO scale layout.
But you would be limited to trains the same size as a small beginners set two or three cars tops,
And small locomotives.
You would also find set track works better on such a small size but I am guessing not to your tastes to go so small.
With open frame bench work and a little malice of forethought, I would think a mountain railroad of some kind could just about be built, it would be tight though.
regards John
RouteofthechiefsFrom your knowledge, are there any layouts/photo documentation of decent, small apartment sized layout
There are two "trackplan" books, each complimentary to the other, that go into explanations, scale conversions, savvy tips, etc. -- I have found quite useful:
[1] (Kalmbach's) 102 Realistic Trackplans. Do check out the book's user reviews.
[2] (Carstens) Track Design. Take note of the preview at the bottom of the webpage.
The Carsten's book harkens back 30 years to an era with a common sense approach to many forgotten aspects of layout design. Ex: See the 5 "track balloons" diagrams.
Conemaugh Road & Traction circa 1956
As others have noted, without a dimensioned sketch of the space to show access and obstructions, folks may not be able to help much.
As a general concept, freeing yourself from rectangular benchwork is an excellent way to think about sharing a room, as in this HO layout.
Of course, this is not a mountain railroad, but the general benchwork shape could work wel for more vertical scenery. Note that the sacred sheet 4X8 won't even fit in this room, although something larger does -- when the benchwork is curved.
As Stein correctly points out, Modules and Sections are not the same thing (although many people misuse the terms). You can build sections to your own specifications to fit the current need and take them with you when you move.
Best of luck with your layout.
Byron
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
When I was in the service I moved several times between apartments so I used the bookshelf railroad concept by Bob Lutz in the Jan/Feb 77 MR and the Christmas tree light method by Eric Bronsky to illuminate them. With modern materials like foam benchtop and LED lights, this should be even easier.
I wound up with four modules that I could connect with end to end or with sections of temporary track and scenery to match whatever room shape my apartment was. The resulting modules were basically self contained boxes that survived several military moves. They also had the advantage of looking like finished furniture, which was important when the railroad was in the living room of a small apartment with a spouse.
jim
(sorry, not sure why this double posted)
John Sing's ATSF layout comes to find; it's more desert, but there's still some decent mountain railroading.
http://home.comcast.net/~j.sing/Peavine_Layout_Overview.html
Googling mountain railroad modeling could work too.
To RouteoftheCheifs, would you be interested/willing in talking with me about what you're doing in college? I'm looking at getting an engineering degree and trying to work with EMD or GE desinging locomotives...I could send you a PM or email if you're ok with it (I';m a rising senior in high school right now myself)
Sawyer Berry
Clemson University c/o 2018
Building a protolanced industrial park layout
Howdy,
(Edit to add , I'm HO)
I admit, I read your intro and thought of me. I am in the same boat, small apartment, wanted a running layout. The first challenge you will face, is how much room can you give up with out affecting your level of comfort. I figured out a few years ago with my old switching point to point layout that pretty much all the room above the TV, book shelves, entertainment center, etc, was wasted floor space and built over top of it.
When I did the dog bone shaped layout, I really, really had to measure my space because I had to kick the layout out to 40", which did intrude pretty far.. but with careful cutting of the foam and bench work, its pretty manageable. Worth it to have train runs.
I am also in the same boat in reagrds to time. I could be here for another 2 years, or 6 months. I went cheap on the bench work. I did the foam and glue. Stuck it on top two sets of shelves and as son as I get motivated, I will work in some shelf brackets to provide extra support.
If you really wanted to pack in a mountain feel, you could easliy take my shape, put the yard in the middle, and grades on either side and stack and pack the mountains in using foam. I admit, I thought about that myself, but I went with the city feel again as I wanted to be able to switch out some industries. I have my one token mountain in the corner. I am thinking of expanding it with a tunnel, but it would be a very fit with the yard so close.
The kind gentleman posted a link my build thread in the first post, take a look at that. Maybe not the feel you want, being with the city etc, but might give you some ideas on how to get the bench work started on the cheap and quick,
Best Regards, Big John
Kiva Valley Railway- Freelanced road in central Arizona. Visit the link to see my MR forum thread on The Building of the Whitton Branch on the Kiva Valley Railway
You want possibility of continuous running, not take much space, not just point-to-point, mountain railroading-- and maybe Santa Fe too.
I remember a layout in Model Railroader, "The Road to Enchantment." Jan78 p.90 It had a Santa Fe mainline with one station, only a small portion of the mainline was visible. Mainline trains could run, but most of visible layout space taken by two dead-end branches that ran off the main. And it was an arouind-the-room plan.
Using that idea, how about a layout with an oval mainline loop, but with much of it hidden, so it comes through the modeled scene and interacts/ interchanges with it. If you can't go around the room, can you afford a 4x8 or 5x9 table? PLUS a shelf off one end. Staging is absolutely necessary to suggest mainline trains going to and coming from somewhere. I don't think you can squeeze much THROUGH staging on even a 5x9 table. How about if the oval has a turnout off one end to a stub end staging yard, maybe three tracks on a shelf. Doable? You have to either back in or back out trains coming and going. Perhaps this can be done on the side of the layout "away from" the front from which it is normally operated, and it can be hidden by a tunnel or ridge. The oval loop should have broadest curves you can afford. I just designed layout with 22" curves for a table layout that involved a couple passenger trains. I figured the cars would need to be 70-footers, "selectively compressed."
The oval might have a passing siding on the "front" of the layout. To make it long enough to be usable, it might not fit on the straight tangent between the end turnback curves. Even on a 9 foot table, that leaves only a 5 foot straightaway. Take away a foot at each end for the length of a turnout and you have a passing siding that can hold a 3 foot train. Instead, cut the turnout for one end nof the passing siding into the end of the turnback cuve opposite the one that goes into staging.
Okay, now you have mainline oval. How about a connection with a branchline at the front of layout. The branchline might have sharper 18" radius curves, and restricted to Geeps or short steamers, and 40-50 foot freight cars. By making a snaking S-curve around the table part of the layout, the branch might rise high enough to go OVER the mainline staging for its little branchline terminal.
Does this sound like enough of a layout to be worth working out in detail?
Not sure if you'd be interested in N-scale but Mike Danneman had a cool apartment sized layout of the DRGW set in the mountains of Colorado. He's got a book out showing pictures of it and you can find articles about it in Model Railroader.
If you want to stick to HO and have a limited amount of space I'd suggest checking out Lance Mindheim's website. It is a Industrial Switching layout set in Miami but you could always set yours in Denver, Colorado Springs or Pueblo. I would think you could easily find some photo backdrops of the Colorado mountains.
Tim
See if this gives you some ideas. It was designed for N scale but may have some usable features. It is an oval loop on one table but with an added shelf to add to staging and other stuff.