Hi Paul,
You're right, I am definitely trying to make my track fit around the scenery, although the scenery is as much of a draw to me as the railroad track itself. I suppose one could make the argument though that I might as well just build a 12 foot diorama with no track if I'm not going to cater to it as a first priority. It would probably be a lot cheaper too...
Did you draw that track plan specifically based off of my design or is that something you pulled from somewhere? I've taken a few days to step back and take care of some other pressing issues but have been giving this quite a bit of thought. I'm working on my next revision now. I would much rather go through 40 revisions of the design and build it once than start building my first revision and change it 40 times. :)
Cheers,Dan
hi Dan,
a few remarks:
IMHO a mine and an elevator need more space. Not only the building, also space before and beyond the (un)loading spot for a cut of cars.
You could do more with the lob at the right, at the same dividing the two scenes way more.
Also the engine terminal could benefit from service tracks for coal, water sand and ash.
Most important is focus however, you seem to be more focused on the town scene itself, while I pay more attention to feasible track configuration.
At the top to much track is very close to the backdrop. Some attention could be given to that.
Paul
I susepct that you might have some reach issues, unless you can access the layout from the north side and the east side.
Bear "It's all about having fun."
I've gone back through the design and made some changes based on everyones feedback and my own thoughts. I'm still not entirely finished, but I think it is getting a lot closer.
I'm not sure if the uppermost track is setup quite right, although for the moment I am abandoning the idea of an under-table staging yard since there is quite a bit of yard space on the layout already. I also removed the lower half of the downtown section, it didn't seem worth boxing in the scene and not really being able to see it unless looking straight down on it. I also went to a single main line and added sidings in where it made sense. I'm still not 100% sure about the entrance/exit to the yard, any suggestions there are definitely welcome.
Minimum radius is 12.25" on the curve coming out of the yard to the left, everything else is 16-18".
http://www.acme-labs.net/download/atsfv15-nscale55.xtc
Thanks,Dan
Actually you have a really good point. The "mall" area is intended to be stores on either side, with no road in between - just extended sidewalk, fountain, etc. Maybe the correct name is arcade? I'm not entirely sure. That is what was there in the early 1980's anyway, I don't know any farther back than that.
Here is an extremely nit-picking point. And it is really more of a linguistic nit-pick that a railroad one.
I assume from the turntable, this is intended as a steam era or transition era layout. Maybe 1950s. You have a small area labeled "city mall." The term "mall" has expanded in the last 35 years or so to mean any large shopping complex. In the 1950s, it was used in commercial district design to refer to a specific architectural form-- and then it was fairly new, and applied only to a few places. It meant a design with multiple stores under separate ownership or management, clustered around a common linear pedestrian space owned by the complex, at first open in the case of the ca.1960 Gulfgate Center in Houston, later enclosed. But NOT a public street at the center.
"Strip centers" were much more common then, so much so, they were not even called strip centers, just centers, or complexes, where several stores shared common parking.
Okay, I've picked my pet nit.
Hi Dan,
a few remarks,
IMHO you have more space then you think. But it is possible to be more specific about the minimum mainline radius, grades in percentages and the turnout numbers involved. Length of trains could be a very important issue.
I would try to keep the engine service facilities and the town together. Why you need such a big visible yard for the few industries you have is not clear to me. For storage an underground staging yard would be very nice. The grades involved might cause some difficulties however.
About coal mines and elevators the following: they usually have one loading point. So a row of cars is placed beyond it, e.g. by a cable or tractor the cut of cars is pulled one by one under the loading chute. You need quite some space for them; 5 cars beyond the chute as a starter resulting in 5 cars before at the end of the day; so a 10 car siding is needed. (actually 9, one car is under the chute)
On the smaller blob a coal mine could easily be added, like on the Virginian design by Byron Henderson. (on the L-shaped plan, not on the 8x4) Though not sure if a coal mine is appropriate for the area.
Thank you guys for all the ideas and suggestions. The design flowed more from the standpoint of trying to include all of my desired elements; now I am trying to figure out how to make it all work.
My method of track spacing in XTRKCad was to lay two turnouts together, then extend the tracks off of them to maintain a consistent spacing. As such, at the point I did that work I wasn't really even sure whether the trains would be running clockwise, or counter clockwise. Thanks Paul for the diagram, it really makes a lot of sense. I will use that as a guide to lay them out more intelligently.
The underground staging connection isn't really depicted, it was either going to be the lower back straight (that goes into the backdrop near the river, instead of meeting back up with the main line), or the very upper track. I wasn't quite sure how the grade calculations were going to work out, so I hadn't added the crossover on the topmost tracks yet as I wasn't sure where it was supposed to go. On the topic of dimensions I am also wondering if it is too deep. That area will be elevated 3-6 inches from the base, so I was hoping that would allow me to get to the extra depth. The other option is to take about 12" of width off so I can beside/behind it on the leftmost side.
Elevation is something I need to learn in XTRKCad. Right now when I try to select a track's elevation, the options are all grayed out. I must be doing something wrong, but haven't found the answer yet. It's far from intuitive software, but I have it tweaked pretty well at this point.
The specific area that I am modeling did have double mainline, which is why I had included it. I don't know that I really gain much/any usable space by removing it? It would be nice to be able to have two independent trains going (in opposite directions), and still run operations in the yard at the same time. As for the size of the yard, one of my early requirements was an oversized yard - the tightly spaced and rather dense nature of all that track just really looks good to me.
I'm not happy with the roundhouse. It wasn't in my original requirements list, but I added it to try and get it to work. It seems too cramped and I need more support infrastructure than I have room for. If I change the lower right section of the L from agriculture/open fields it could go down there, but I'm not sure how to work that in realistically. An engine maintenance facility on top of a river valley bluff doesn't make a whole lot of sense. :)
As for the period, I think it's about the last day of steam until about 1990. I know that's probably wider than most would like, but I haven't narrowed it down entirely yet. I also have 4 Kato SD70ACE (2 KCS Southern Belle, and 2 BNSF), as well as a KCS "Ghost" SD50. Obviously the ACEs don't fit in too well with that plan, but they were so beautiful I had to have them. :)
Going forward I will be;
1. Re-working the yard2. Re-working the roundhouse/turntable (I was surprised how much room it takes up)3. Adding some curves to the upper mainline area so it's not just a ~12 ft run of straight track.4. Researching some additional structures and figuring out how to place them (city hall, post office, ethanol plant?)5. Possibly moving engine maintenance facility to lower right? Use the top layer track as the entrance to hidden staging (so it has a downslope), or using it as the entrance to the top layer (so it has an up-slope) in the lower right? Perhaps Ethanol industry instead?6. Making better use of the space along the river on both sides.
I wll post again when I have an updated copy of the layout "drawerings".
Edited for "tipos"... It's hard to communicate with "pour" language ;).
1. From your "needs / wants list" why do you need such a large yard? To make up only a coal train and return it to the yard could be done with many less tracks. For trains just to run around the layout I would think the staging yards would be a better option.
2. I think having a switch-back to the round house from the Pillsbury elevator is going to be problematic. It will limit the capacity of the cars spotted at Pillsbury and or the size of the locomotive being able to enter from that spur.
3. There are too many tracks on the left curve such that I cannot tell which goes where. It would seem there are double tracks on multiple levels as well as a tighter cruve that basically goes arournd the roundhouse.
4. A roundhouse almost demands more of a locomotive servicing area around it. I would add a wattering area, coal or oiling facility, sanding, ash pit, and a service track.
Looks good! Something I have found with my N Scale layout is to have the main running behind the yard instead of in front. I had mine set up like yours at first with the dual main lines running in front, however I always found myself having to watch for trains when working in the yard so that my arm or shirt did not clip the train running by.
Also the two crossovers that you have crossover in the same direction from the right hand track to the left hand side. Maybe the one in front of the yard switch it the other way so that it comes from the left hand track to the right hand track.
Can you get to both sides (top as shown) of your layout? You have shown about a 40" wide layout. 30" is considered about as far as a reach should, though it depends on your height, reach and layout height. Just be sure you can reach all areas without damaging scenery elements you may put in later. With your turntable in the middle and a number of turnouts on the top side, if you can't reach everything, that's where your derailments will occur.
Good luck,
Richard
Dan,
Good start. I've always been fond of L shaped layouts for the amount of layout you can fit in a given space. The double track mainline is good for running trains continuously and will allow you to have one train running without requiring interaction while you are switching the yard or industries. However, I'm not sure you want that. Double mainline track was not overly common on the Santa Fe, especially in a small city or countryside. It might detract from the overall theme you are trying to achieve. Also, a single mainline with passing sidings increases your operational possibilities and provides more space for scenery or additional industries.
You don't mention what era you are running, but since you have a roundhouse and turntable I'll assume your modeling steam or transition era. For that era I would try to work in a small passenger train. Santa Fe ran a lot of famous named trains, and you could easily work in one of those or a smaller passenger train. I would try to put the passenger train station on a double ended siding long enough for an entire train to sit on and not block the mainline.
I would remove the switch connecting the Pillsbury elevator to the turntable. Also, try to work in a switch lead for your yard. As is, you will be constantly pulling out on the double mainline while switching the yard.
I can't tell if there is any industry associated with the tracks near the Mall and Downtown, but you could put another one there.
For your engine facility, you need a track for fuel, water, sand and coal. And ash pit could also be good. This might only take one or two tracks.
Finally, I'm not sure what the raised track that doesn't connect to anything else is.
Again, I think you're off to a great start. Keep pressing ahead and having fun.
Cheers,
Kevin
a good starting point.
A few things i do not see nor understand. I can't find the connection to underground staging.
I do see a track however above anything, not connected to other tracks. What is its function.
You should be very specific how to operate your yard, going with it the placement of cross-overs. The following shematic might help. Assuming one of your mainline tracks is doubling as a yard lead.
The connection of both the engine service area and the house track (SF language for a track along local industries) with the yard lead are pretty awkward on your plan. Talking about engine service, your locs need coal(oil), water, sand and a place to dump ash at least; not just a turntable.
I have been working slowly but steadily on my track plan for the ATSF railroad. The elements I have been trying to include are:
1. River & Bridge combination (Missouri River)2. Small downtown area3. Depot & Freight house, possibly passenger train4. APW Industrial site5. Coal mine6. Pillsbury MGP elevator / Ethanol / Industrial7. Yard capable of storing 40-50 cars8. Multi-level design, needs some vertical. Track levels ~3" apart? Lower/Middle/Upper 9. Staging yard located under the layout (accessible from upper back-straight)10. Operations - Build trains in the yard, run them around the mainline, pick up coal and bring to yard, etc11. Reach - need to be able to reach all areas on the layout as it will be a corner L-shaped design12. DCC - I have a Digitrax Super Chief Xtra radio to run the layout with13. JMRI integration/automation via Digitrax PR3 or Wifi module?
My design basically includes a small city area that houses the industry, downtown, yard, and mainlines. The lower L consists of a multi-level countryside scene, with track crossings hidden inside the river valley bluff. Current plans call for agricultural / farming to reside on the top level of the lower L, but it would also be possible to include additional industry, etc to increase the operational options of the layout.
Specifically I am hoping for some comments on the design, what I am missing, what I have done wrong, etc. This is the first layout I've ever designed so I'm definitely new to this. I've tried to keep this brief and to the point, and I am including the original XTrkcad file, as well as a JPG created from XTrkcad in case you don't have it. If nothing else, perhaps my work will be useful to someone who may want to adapt portions of my design for their own layout.
Direct links to the files;
http://www.acme-labs.net/download/atsfv11-nscale55.xtchttp://www.acme-labs.net/download/atsfv11-nscale55.jpg
Thanks!Dan