twcenterprises I'll rework it to more closely resemble your design, using 2" track centers, and the slightly tighter 6.5 Walthers 24/20 turnouts (already in place on the last version, above.)
I'll rework it to more closely resemble your design, using 2" track centers, and the slightly tighter 6.5 Walthers 24/20 turnouts (already in place on the last version, above.)
Be aware that the Walthers 24/20s are really 24/18s as I have noted before.
Dante
hi,
all that underground fun for just the 2 or 3 trains you need for an operation session. Hmm maybe cassette storage, using drawers, would be my choice; while using the underground tracks for proper staging.
Paul
Feedback like this is exactly why I posted this to the forum. It makes me think and rethink my plan, working out the flaws on the design, rather than after construction. I see your point about losing 1 or 2 tracks with the current design. I'll rework it to more closely resemble your design, using 2" track centers, and the slightly tighter 6.5 Walthers 24/20 turnouts (already in place on the last version, above.) You are correct in that there will be some serial staging, and on my next version, the three loops will still be on the upper portion, but intended for storage, in a manner similar to the lower portion.
Until next version ...
Brad
EMD - Every Model Different
ALCO - Always Leaking Coolant and Oil
CSX - Coal Spilling eXperts
Content removed due to a completely frak'ed up and incompetent Kalmbach customer service.
OK, next draft. I'm not too fond of curved turnouts, but it does at least make the plan usable. The 3-way I already have on hand; might as well put it to use (And yes, I know it will require gaps and special wiring). And yes, I am aware I have reverse loop trackage, and need to wire it accordingly.
For those of you who don't remember, the track shown in red is grade uphill to main layout, about 2%.
Another thing to keep in mind: Staging yard tracks do no need to be level like a regular yard. Not sure if this will afford you any extra space, but this is often overlooked.
Check out the Deming Sub by clicking on the pics:
Svein: #2 is much better. Less complicated and actually useable.
#1 really wasn't really workable in any way, shape or form.
Chris van der Heide
My Algoma Central Railway Modeling Blog
Svein - I am using Atlas #4 turnouts and 2" track centers. I'm running 4 axle diesels and 40' cars, so I shouldn't have clearance issues on the curves. Looks like you've build a compound ladder, much like I've tried (but I didn't use the curved turnouts). I'll see if I can clean up my revision and post it. Thanks for the input.
I didn't work on the plan today, I was too busy .... errmm ... playing with my new CVP EasyDCC system that arrived today ... Yay! I programmed a pair of Intermountain FP7's and test ran them. I have more programming I want to do (mostly adding momentum and Rule 17 lighting), but so far I'm happy with it. The only drawback I see is ... to run multiple locos on any one throttle, one must build a consist with them. Not a major drawback, but I'd prefer to simply assign loco1 to throttle 1, add loco 2 to throttle 1, etc. I'm still learning ... and had to dig out the instructions for the decoder/locos.
Anyway, back to work on the design.
Hey Brad one other thing for you on hidden trackage is to have as many of the rerailers in there as possible. You can not have too many....... really. A good target is one before and after every turnout, one before and after every turn that is a 1/4 turn or more...... for every track. Really, you will appricate it in the long run
ratled
Modeling the Klamath River area in HO on a proto-lanced sub of the SP “The State of Jefferson Line”
Rob - that's why I was asking for help, and indicated the plan could be changed. Only the red track is "fixed" ... so far. Trains entering/leaving staging yard will likely be no more than 2 locos and maybe 12 cars.Dave H. - Another reason I'm asking for help. I don't want a horribly complicated staging yard, I want something as simple as can be had, given what I am working with. Also, I (tried to) address your other points above.Mobilman - duly noted, that's why I come to the forum to ask and (try to) learn from other's mistakes.Svein - I'm still working on this, I'm sure I need another crossover (or something) somewhere.Lee - I'll try something like that, though probably without the "Cassettes".Dave N. - True, I may be losing a bit of real estate going up to the main level, I'm using a "no-lix" around 3 sides, coming out to about a 2% grade and 10" difference deck-to-deck. It's a compromise I think I can live with. As for operations, this is planned as a branchline, and I'll be "operating" by myself most of the time, I don't plan to use car forwarding or waybills, it'll be much more informal, along the lines of "take empty hoppers to mine, pull loads, take them to the yard", and running a way freight. This will be as much a "display/watch trains" layout as much as an "operating model railroad". Ops sessions will probably be an hour or two (again, by myself). I hope all this made some sort of sense. As I noted before, much of this is for long term stoarge as opposed to active/passive staging.
To everyone who replied - I'll work on revising this and posting an update (I'll probably edit this post if the forum will let me).
Thanks.
As I get older it seems I have less and less ability to imagine things in 3D. But my initial reaction is that if you were to draw a sideways view of your plan it would become plain that an awful lot of precious real estate is spent on going from level to level, particularly if you assume that you want an entire staging area itself to be flat or fairly flat.
As I operate on my layouts I come to the conclusion that track planning has to go hand in hand with advance ideas about operations -- and that the best operating systems are those that actually get cars (and perhaps locomotives too) actually off the layout. If you have a fixed population of cars on a layout after just a few sessions you swear your ran that very same train, car for car, before.
A fiddle yard is a good idea but it needs to be matched with a car forwarding system that directs when a car leaves the layout and, just as importantly, comes back again.
Staging is great for both operating and "display/watch the trains" layouts but for operating layouts, you need to think about just how long the session is and how many trains you expect to stage. if you have a true fiddle yard (or yards) with the dedicated "yard master" (or masters) that can take the pressure off having to have all those tracks and all that space dedicated to staging.
The phrase often used is "active staging" which involves constant human intervention, as opposed to passive staging which at most involves pre-session set up.
So with that as long winded preamble -- assuming you really want what is in essence a dog-bone oval, I would think seriously about staging behind a backdrop with access at either end of the dogbone so that you would have, in essence, east bound staging and west bound staging. With care perhaps it could be dual level leaving however plenty of room for the upper level to get down to track level. And the access points would need a person acting as yardmaster.
I suspect I am not being very coherent here but what I am trying to get across is that totally passive staging such as you see on some truly massive layouts is hard to do with a normal sized layout like this one, but if you assume you have enough operators, human staging yardmasters with active staging yards can for all practical purposes take the place of several tracks and turnouts in totally passive staging yards.
Dave Nelson
Way to complicated for what you are trying to do for operating. I would take the red track down grade flair out to 3 tracks go around the upper loop then reduce back to 1 track before forming the actual reversing loop by joining back to the red track to return to the main level. If the tracks are two train lengths long you can start with a train on all tracks and end with a train on all tracks without much problem. I'd use 22" as a minimum radius period. Put dead storage on cassettes on the lower end. I leave figuring out how to work in the cassettes to you.
Lee
Hi,
Dehusman is right on the money. I learned the hard way on a previous layout.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
Couple of observations.
Complicated hidden track is usually regretted later.
Having hidden switches buried in the back of the benchwork is ususally regretted later.
The design is very inefficient since in order to access the inner staging tracks you have to run through the outer staging tracks. That means you have to keep them clear as throughfares.
The reverse loops to get a train out of staging are the middle of staing tracks, that means if you park a train on either half of the staging track, you can't use the reverse loop.
The basic design you want is a parallelogram yard with a loop on one end. That way you can enter from the red line and go directly to any staging track and leave any staging track and enter the reverse loop directly. Only one staging track needs to be given up as a running track.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Brad, forgive me if I missed it, but how does a train get out of storage once it goes in?
Also how long will your trains be, do you need such long storage tracks?
Rob
Hello again, I'm working on designing my hidden staging yard. Below is an image of what I have so far.. Some details you may ask for or find helpful. The track in red is 2% grade up to "main level". Scale is HO. I need maximum amount of possible staging,storage (and even this won't hold everything I have). There is 10" from deck-to-deck, on 1/2" plywood, so about 9-1/2" of room. On each return loop, I will have a 24" square access, in case it's needed. Only the track shown in red is "fixed", as are the access "hatches". Everything else is free to be changed. I only expect 2-3 trains to head in/out of staging for an ops session, the rest are just long-term storage. I would like the ability to be able to run a train out of storage without having to move several other trains (I can live with moving 1 or 2), and the ability to run a train back out without having to run around it. I'm using code 83 track, and turnout minimum is #4. Most equipment is 40' cars and 4 axle diesels. Minimum radius is 22" for active staging, 18" for storage tracks. The fore most "passing siding" I intend to use as DCC programming track, and "fiddle yard" track. Let's see, am I forgetting anything? Probably, so feel free to ask for clarification.
Feel free to mod this as you see fit, send me a private message if you want me to email the XtrackCAD files, and thanks in advance.