This isn't my first layout. I had two HO layouts in the last 7 years and have a current O scale layout on foam. However, I am going to build a new HO layout and instead of gluing the track down I want to use track nails which brings me to my issue.
The last HO layout I glued cork roadbed to plywood and glued the track to the cork. Even though more than a year passed before I ran any trains and noting the layout was in a temperature controlled area (finished basement), the track buckeled to the point where I was fixing new areas on a daily basis. After being tired of constantly fixing it I removed it totally.
This time I will be using nails to hold everhthing in place. Which material is best to use? Plywood seems too hard and foam is too soft to hold the nails. What can be used instead of these two materials?
Bill
There is a product called Homasote that is good. However, it should be laid over plywood for more stability. It comes in 4X8 sheets. It may also be known as Soundasote as it was in my area. It is a gray dense fiber type material.
What I got once was in 1/2 inch thick. Track nails may go deeper and still have to be nailed into the plywood. I don't know if it is available in 3/4 inch thickness or not.
And, it may be a special order item, as that is what I had to do from my lumber supplier.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
As has been covered here several times in the past, your track buckling problem was the WOOD expanding and contracting with changes in temperature and humidity.
This will possibly continue to be a problem if you don't have a climate-controlled environment for your layout, or paint or seal both sides of your plywood and framework.
Two good products on which to build a layout are hollow core doors that have been treated on both sides, and one or two layers of Homasote or Sound Board on top of the doors.
My first guess would be that you used inexpensive plywood and didn't seal it. I think even expensive plywood is better off sealed.
I have my track held to cork held to foam using inexpensive caulk. The foam is also held together with the same caulk. It has been in place over 5 years. There is a sheet of plywood and a frame underneath, as it was planned to be portable and I think I have overkill, but no expansion issues.
When/if I get to build a larger layout, I plan to stay with the foam base and a simple wood frame for it to sit on. Caulk will be used to hold everything together.
If you want to stick with nails, have you looked into homosote? A number of posts indicate that some folks have had success using it. It seems to be able to hold nails and doesn't react to weather changes.
Good luck,
Richard
Some sections of my layout are Homasote glued on top of 1/2 inch plywood and the track work has been stable for over 20 years. The layout is in my basement and the humidity ranges between 40 to 60%. The track was initially fastened down with nails but after gluing down the ballast with 50% white glue the nails were removed. Hopefully, the next 20years will see no track movement.
Joe
I am assuming that your HO layout had a sheet of plywood that the cork roadbed was glued to. Even plywood will expand and contract due to humidity changes. As a woodworker and furniture maker for the last 25 years, I have learned to work with that change. One of the ways to have the most effect on limiting wood movement is to finish all surfaces of a wood piece. You can't totally eliminate the movement, but applying the same finish to all exposed surfaces will minimize it. If you are creating a grid frame to hold a plywood subbase, I would paint everything prior to laying roadbed and track. I've seen it recommended in a few layout articles. Foam might not move with changes in humidity, but the frame supporting it will, if not sealed. I don't hear folks with L-girder framing and cookie cutter sub-roadbed complaining of movement, but it could happen. Jim Kelly has a one page article in the January 2012 Model Railroader (page 24) on the subject of track movement due to humidity. Guess what? The track in his article is nailed to the roadbed and the picture shows it kinked badly. I'm going to stand on my experience and the teaching I've had from more experienced woodworkers and say the best way to prevent wood movement in humidity change is to seal all sides of it.
Jim - Preserving the history of the NKP Cloverleaf first subdivision.
It is humidity. Not heat, humidity. Specifically, a reduction in humidity. When the wood under the roadbed shrinks as it dries a bit seasonally, it tries to take the track lengths atop it with it. The tracks can't compress, but they can deflect sideways. And, we shouldn't be surprised that it's precisely what we see.
If you don't want to paint all that wood, and hope your track nails don't act like...well, nails...in puncturing the seal, you might as well go to Home Depot or wherever and plunk down $150 on a decent 16 pint a day dehumidifier.
Crandell
Speaking from experience, the best layout `surface' (ie., the plane from which everything else builds upward) is - air.
Or, possibly, the narrow sides of steel stud (or other material) joists on 16<24 inch centers.
Above that, supported on steel risers, I have thin plywood subgrade where tracks will be laid (with foam roadbed between plywood and ties) and where buildings will be placed. Other risers hold a skeleton of cardstock strips which, in turn, support hardshell scenery (which becomes self-supporting as soon as the hydrocal cures.) There are also some access hatch rims and covers made from 1.5 inch foam plastic - the rims supported on risers from the joists below.
The main reason is that I'm modeling an area where the scenery mostly stands on edge. A solid table is NOT the best starting point for a layout where 75% of the first main track is on grades.
My layout occupies a non-climate-controlled double garage. Since I was careful to lay my track with adequate expansion joints I haven't had any uphevals. I did have a sideslip issue on the one curve which was laid with inadequate expansion joints. That curve has since been lifted and re-laid.
I question the OP's insistence on track nails. Acrylic latex caulk has proven much more satisfactory in my work - it holds every tie, not just every three inches.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Having "been there, done that", I would bet my RR that your problem was with the drying of the wood benchwork, particularly plywood.
On my current layout (located in a spare room) I "thought" I had let the plywood dry out beforehand, but one day I went up to the 11x15 HO layout and found a dozen buckled spots. Yup, it was the plywood, and I could actually see the gaps between the larger pieces (that I worked so hard to get a solid airtight joint.
On this layout I caulked the roadbed (first time for this, found it a good practice), and nailed the track. I found this to be the best working combination for me, and recommend it (but won't argue over it).
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
Bill54This time I will be using nails
Homasote is the best layout surface when the goal is using nail/spikes for tracklaying. Like any surface, for scenery you can add ground goop, plaster, etc.
CR&T will be using plywood due to drilling the supporting multiples of trolley poles, and; employing cookie-cutter for some layout elevation changes.
So, for the best layout surface -- It all depends...
For example, I took apart a 4'x4' (n scale) Christmas layout, that was strong enough to also support a Christmas tree in the middle -- It only lasted 30+ years, and; was still intact when dismantled. The surface was solely 1/2" Homasote on 1"x4" benchwork supported by (2) 2'x4' box-grid benchwork sections. I also had a 6'x6' high school layout using 1/2" Homasote using similar benchwork that easily supported my weight for layout construction due to underlying 2'x3' box-grids.
Conemaugh Road & Traction circa 1956
Where can you buy 4' x 8' Homasite? Home depot and Lowes no longer carry it. I'm in Central Texas (Austin area)
ausmodelerWhere can you buy 4' x 8' Homasite?
You are looking for "Homasote 440". The Homasote dealer finder may help.
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
Home Depot has it. It's called Sound Barrier Sheathing.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Sound-Barrier-Sheathing-1-2-in-x-4-ft-x-8-ft-R-1-2-Sound-Board-206136/202090212
Gary