I think the issue - at least from what I have seen - with Peco, is that the rails are uncontrollable while bending a curve. In my case, I didn't even curve it, but I picked it up and moved it, and then when I looked, the rails were hanging off one end of the track about 3", and it is nearly impossible to thread them back through the ties, rendering the length of track completely useless until you cut it on one end. So I don't care for them either, you end up cutting 3 - 4 " off a length of track, and you waste a foot or 2 of track before you know it.
Well, now that this 4 year old thread is awake again..
A while ago i ordered some Peco flex to test with - gotta say, I have not had any of the problems mentioned. Tested curving it, flowed smoothly, must like Atlas. Out of the box from shipping, one rail was partly pushed through a few inches from then end, on all 5 pieces I ordered. No problem slipping it back through the 'spikes' and evening it out. Definitely did not have to cut the ends off. This is their Code 83, US style track, not the Code 100 or Code 75 UK style track, which may behave differently.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
When I started this thread over 3 years ago, it was my first experience with Peco flex track. But, since then, with the extended shortage of Atlas flex track, I have bought a fair number of pieces of Peco Code 83 flex track. I no longer hate it, although i can't say that I love it. Once you learn to work with it, it is fine.
Rich
Alton Junction
I have some Peco switches but always used Atlas flex - and had lots saved from my last layout so the "great Atlas track shortage" hasn't affected me yet.
That said, with all this fuss over Peco flex track, I'm going to have to pick some up and see what it's all about! If it is fairly bendy, it might be something I'd like.
I do have some Walthers code 70 stiff flex track for my yard, so I'll get to have some fun struggling to make it fairly straight as I get into that stage of the layout.
Cheers, Jim
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
riogrande5761 I have some Peco switches but always used Atlas flex - and had lots saved from my last layout so the "great Atlas track shortage" hasn't affected me yet.
I have to say I am all Peco C55 on my new build and it is the best track I have ever used and I don't like Atlas flex because of how it springs to normal if you let go.
Also in Peco C55 the nail holes are indented on the bottom and I use a #66 drill bit to open them before I start setting the track using Peco nails. Everyone has their likes and dislikes but I agree with Steven Otte that we don't have to try and mimic cussing! Doug
If this guy doesnt like Peco Flex track then he better not ever use Micro Engineering flex track. It will send him over the edge.
But then again I didnt realize folks were still nailing down flex track either.
Larry
Yes Larry, I'm still nailing down flex track with Peco nails. Old school you know and I tried caulk a couple times and just did not care for the system and waiting for cure at all. I use Peco nails only as stated earlier. 9/16th's long, small, slim and strong with round heads and very sharp. I also pre-drill half the length of the nail before inserting and tapping in. After painting and ballasting they are difficult to see. Just my way of doing things. Doug
camaroBut then again I didnt realize folks were still nailing down flex track either. Larry
There are a few of us out there rebelling against the system - or is it "raging against the machine". Darn straight I nail or spike my track down.
I'd be a a lot poorer if I glued it down during the track laying phase as I've often find I need to pull it back up for various reasons, and relay it - so I imagine pulling up glued down track would have mangled a significant amount of it. I'm also real picky so that may be partly to blame.
There are some things I don't like to be permanent right from the start, and my track is one of them. Plus, I don't have to wait for an adesive to dry - the track is down once I've put the nail or spike in. I like something a lot more solid than foam under my track too. Scenery, sure, thats ok.
Like many, I don't care for the unrealistic track nail heads - but after the track is finalized and ballasted - I can simply pull out the nails with a pair of needle nose. So time for a wake up call, not every one of us goes like a lemming over the cliff and follows the latest trend of track laying. For some things I do go with the new ways, but for otherways, I like the old school!
rgengineoiler .... After painting and ballasting they are difficult to see. Just my way of doing things. Doug
.... After painting and ballasting they are difficult to see. Just my way of doing things. Doug
Doug, after doing those finishing touches, you don't need the nails. Remove them and let the ballast hold the rails just like in the real world. This has been my practice for a decade now.
Yes I have removed about half of them now that the ballast is down. Model railrods are a long drawn out process. Doug
I've built two layouts now with caulk and will NEVER go back to nails. Assuming I have my acto together and all the pieces on hand, I can lay track much faster with caulk. I use some pushpins temporarily to hold it in place, but when done properly, it takes less than an hour to set enough to hold even curves in place - and this is with Atlas track that likes to spring back to straight. No noise, no chance of missing a hammer swing and nicking the rails. And also, when done properly, it peels right up without damaging the track. I had to do that with my first layout made with caulk, I decided to remove an entire passing siding and pir of industry sidings that weren't needed. You can be darn sure i wasn;t going to waste 4 not so cheap turnouts - they all came up fine and I was able to use them again elsewhere on the layout. Long full sections of flex were also reused. About the only thing I didn't reuse were small cut to fit fitter sections.
The trick, as I mentioned, it to do it right. DOing it right means layoing a VERY thin bead of caulk and spreading it. So thin you cna see pencil lines though it. So thin, it barely looks like there is anything there. So thin that an 8x12 double track layout, track AND roadbed, consumed only 1 tube of caulk. If you spread it on like you care caulking your windows or bathtub, you will have a bad experience, especially if you attempt to pull up track aftrer it sets. If you use a strong adhesive like Liquid Nails, instead of just plain cheap latex caulk, you likely will have problems with it holding too good to be able to pry up without damage.
Hi all
Well concidering Peco is only the best in the world, I don't see what the problem is. Unless you have not broken the rails memory before you start.
Remove both rails gently curve them one way then the other then return them to the sleeper base. once thats done you should have no problems geting it to the shape you want drilling and pining as you go.
Tracksetta is the word these things are a god send when it comes to laying any brand of flex track.
As for moving rails that will happen with all brands if one rail doesn't shorten and move about it won't curve it will kink and be useless
This stuff isn't snap or set track and it does take more work to get what you want.
Its flexable it bends the snaking is probably the moving rail catching on the rail clips as its being manipulated.
I won't use any other brand because the other brands the rails are to rigid and difficult to bend to the right curve.
regards John
rrinker The trick, as I mentioned, it to do it right. --Randy
The trick, as I mentioned, it to do it right.
And their lies the rub for me - I'm not good with adhesives and I really like the ability to adjust things early on. Those are the primarly reason I will NEVER use adhesives on my track when I am laying it - too permanent right from the start. On my "in-progress" layout, I've re-laid varous track sections more times than I can count already - either to get a better fit, remove a module to fix a water leak in the wall, change the way I mount a turnout - you name it. This is why I really REALLY like a non-adhesive method in the early stages - it has saved my back-side majorly. I am saving adhesives until later, which for me is real good idea. Maybe a really good idea for others if you are anything like me!
My staging yard has a lot of track that will never get any adhesive and I should be able to tear the layout down some day and re-use it all. A big cost savings if money is tight. Of course the visible portion will get ballasted eventually after I'm satisfied with the track geometry etc.
Anyway, for those of you who have the mad glooing skillz, more power too ya! I'll always be a glooing klutz!
As for Peco being the best flex track out there? I haven't heard that before, although I expect it's good stuff - I think we'd need a poll to get the skinny on "whats best". I do want to try some however.
I like Peco because, as John Busby said, both rails are removable. I run them through a Fast Tracks bender and reinstall. this eliminates the kinks at the joints on curves. I used to solder the joints for smoothness and electrical conductivity, but temperature changes in the basement the track to either buckle or straighten itself
Dave
Just be glad you don't have to press "2" for English.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ_ALEdDUB8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hqFS1GZL4s
http://s73.photobucket.com/user/steemtrayn/media/MovingcoalontheDCM.mp4.html?sort=3&o=27
richhotrain I always use Atlas Code 83 flex track. Some time ago, I stopped by a LHS, not my regular one, and picked up 5 lengths of flex track. When I got home and started working with it, I thought something was strange because when I went to bend it, instead of forming a curve, it twisted like a slithering snake. Then, I realized that I was sold Peco flex track. Not only does this stuff curl up in an S-pattern, but the rails move in opposite directions. I was too lazy to return it, so I just set it aside. But, today, I needed some flex track, and it was all that I had, so I used it. How do you guys work with this stuff It is awful. Rich
I always use Atlas Code 83 flex track.
Some time ago, I stopped by a LHS, not my regular one, and picked up 5 lengths of flex track.
When I got home and started working with it, I thought something was strange because when I went to bend it, instead of forming a curve, it twisted like a slithering snake. Then, I realized that I was sold Peco flex track. Not only does this stuff curl up in an S-pattern, but the rails move in opposite directions.
I was too lazy to return it, so I just set it aside. But, today, I needed some flex track, and it was all that I had, so I used it.
How do you guys work with this stuff It is awful.
The timliness of this thread (or its resurgence actually) is really great for me. I'm just about to start laying track for my first layout - a 5x9 in which I'm using all Peco flex and turnouts. I have been really impressed with the build quality of the turnouts. They seem much more solid than the Atlas ones I've used in the past.
For the flex, I'm impressed with this as well. Like the realism - and the fact that there are no predrilled holes doesn't bother me. I am planning on using caulk to attach the track, but if I decide to switch to nails, I bought a little pin vise which takes about 5 seconds to make a hole in the tie with.
The only frustration I'm having with the track - and maybe someone can tell me how to do this. I find that as I bend the track back and forth, one or both of the rails slide off the ties, and I can't seem to figure out how to get it back on. I usually end up cutting off a bit of the rail and ties up to the last attached piece - but I imagine there must be a better way. I tried sliding the rail back through the tie, but when I do this, it seems to make the other rail come off even more and makes it worse. Any tips?
Thanks!
H
The trick I figured out it to pinch the rail you DON'T need to move against the ties, and also hold the the piece that has slipped at the end where it is short. Bend the track away fromt he shifted rail - it should suck back in at the end it sticks out past the ties. Now hold the displaced track tight at the side it just slipped back in to, and bend the other way, carefully feeding the rail into the spikes. This will work the displaced rail back into place. Might have to do it a few times to get it all lined up. Once you get the idea, it's quicker than reading all this.
Yeah, I agree with Randy on this technique. When I started this thread way back when, that was one of the principal reasons that I "hated" Peco flex track. But, I have since learned to deal with the sliding rails peculiarity. If one rail protrudes while the other rail is recessed, I hold the section of flex track in my left hand while holding down both rails with my left thumb. With my right hand, I swivel the section of flex track back and forth until the rails even out.
If the recessed rail has slipped out of the plastic spikes, I carefull slide it back through them. Try doing that with Atlas flex track. With Atlas, it is really easy to break the plastic spikes, not so with Peco. With Peco, the plastic spikes don't break as easily as they do with Atlas.
BTW with Atlas only 1 rail slides freely, the other is fixed. The free rail in Atlas can easily slip out one end just like happens with Peco. You can end up with 10 ties on one end having only 1 rail, and a whole bunch of rail at the other end. The same sort of technique can get the rail back even.
I have a few sections of Atlas flex with only 1 rail in them - I ordered a Fast Tracks turnout jig for Atlas track and obtained rail by pulling out the easy one.
Figured I'd stop in and see what all the fuss is about. I'm definitely with Jim on not using adhesives except in special cases. I tend to adjust things, maybe even years after track is laid, if it's required for new operational flexibility, rather like the 1:1 does.
What I can't figure out is the brutal passion for track nails. BTDT as a teenager and will never go back. Too much chance of bending or warping the track from errant hammer blows and plain ol' klutziness with me. I used cork as roadbed, then spike the track down. Not being in the middle of a tie helps, plus it's a lot more controllable by me with a trashed shoulder and Ancient Mariner reflexes than hammering anything.
I'm a long-time, loyal ME user, but the HOn3 code 70 shortage is putting me on the spot. I could use two bundles yesterday. They've been working on the worn tooling since September and it shows up peridodically in Walthers as Expected only to revert to a later date or Unknown. Through the grapevine I've heard it could be another six months before production resumes.
And Peco now has HOn3 track. Just pretty sure it would be tricky to match up with ME and Shinohara turnouts, though. Anyone have experience, love or hate, with doing that? How close is the rail profile to each other? I know Shinohara and ME are pretty compatible, just never tried to match any of it to Peco.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
mlehman What I can't figure out is the brutal passion for track nails. BTDT as a teenager and will never go back. Too much chance of bending or warping the track from errant hammer blows and plain ol' klutziness with me. I used cork as roadbed, then spike the track down. Not being in the middle of a tie helps.
What I can't figure out is the brutal passion for track nails. BTDT as a teenager and will never go back. Too much chance of bending or warping the track from errant hammer blows and plain ol' klutziness with me. I used cork as roadbed, then spike the track down. Not being in the middle of a tie helps.
Incidentally, I use trail nails, but I finish driving the nails with a nil punch. No real risk of pulling the rails out of gauge.
I see by the time of your posts that you seem to be up at all hours of the night. Rich, are you getting enough sleep?
Just a friend’s concern, for another friend!
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
LOL
Mark, you are a stitch.
richhotrainMike, where do you place the spikes? If you don't use a hammer, how do you drive the spikes down?
Rich,
I drive the spike right at the right angle formed where a tie and rail meet. Depending on what spikes you use, they are virtually invisible once set and the track is ballasted.
The Walthers/Shinohara (948-360 http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/948-360) ones are my faves, while the ME Mediums also work, but have a bigger head and are a little more difficult to set.
How this works is getting the right length spike. When it's driven through the cork, the tip needs to just penetrate the subroadbed, enough to stick and nothing more. That way, you don't need to drill a pilot hole or push extra hard to drive it deep into the wood. Getting the tip imn solid is good enough to hold your track.
I use matte medium to hold the ballast. If I need to change something, I mist it with 91% alcohol, wait a minute for it to penetrate, then slide a putty knife under the ties and lift gently. I do tend to pull any spikes I can see the heads on first, but so long as you're gentle in lifting , any remaining ones tend to pop loose easily sincce the head isn't buried into the plywood underneath.
Pairs of spikes every 4" to 6" are typical, more needed around rail joints and turnouts. The 948-360 spike head is typically small enough it's easy to use on the inside edge of the rail, too, without interfering with wheel flanges..
richhotrain mlehman What I can't figure out is the brutal passion for track nails. BTDT as a teenager and will never go back. Too much chance of bending or warping the track from errant hammer blows and plain ol' klutziness with me. I used cork as roadbed, then spike the track down. Not being in the middle of a tie helps. Mike, where do you place the spikes? If you don't use a hammer, how do you drive the spikes down? Incidentally, I use trail nails, but I finish driving the nails with a nil punch. No real risk of pulling the rails out of gauge. Rich
Mike, where do you place the spikes? If you don't use a hammer, how do you drive the spikes down?
I use both Atlas track nails and spikes, depending on the situation - for track that has nail holes, nails, for those which doens't, spikes. For driving the nails, too use a nail set. I drive them down so they barely touch the ties.
Yes, I bend nails but so what, usually the next one goes in. They are cheap so it it'st much waste to toss a few bent nails - pennies.
I had a comment on how to use track nails; but, in an effort to end this madness, I shall refrain from making comment.
mlehman richhotrain Mike, where do you place the spikes? If you don't use a hammer, how do you drive the spikes down? Rich, I drive the spike right at the right angle formed where a tie and rail meet. Depending on what spikes you use, they are virtually invisible once set and the track is ballasted. The Walthers/Shinohara (948-360 http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/948-360) ones are my faves, while the ME Mediums also work, but have a bigger head and are a little more difficult to set. How this works is getting the right length spike. When it's driven through the cork, the tip needs to just penetrate the subroadbed, enough to stick and nothing more. That way, you don't need to drill a pilot hole or push extra hard to drive it deep into the wood. Getting the tip imn solid is good enough to hold your track. I use matte medium to hold the ballast. If I need to change something, I mist it with 91% alcohol, wait a minute for it to penetrate, then slide a putty knife under the ties and lift gently. I do tend to pull any spikes I can see the heads on first, but so long as you're gentle in lifting , any remaining ones tend to pop loose easily sincce the head isn't buried into the plywood underneath. Pairs of spikes every 4" to 6" are typical, more needed around rail joints and turnouts. The 948-360 spike head is typically small enough it's easy to use on the inside edge of the rail, too, without interfering with wheel flanges..
richhotrain Mike, where do you place the spikes? If you don't use a hammer, how do you drive the spikes down?
richhotrainMike, thanks for that informative reply. I see that those are spike for Code 70. Is your track work Code 83?
I use them just fine with my standard gauge track, which is ME code 83, and trackwork, which is Walthers/Shinohara. The narrowgauge is mostly ME code 70, with a little code 55 in a few sidings. Dual-gauge is all code 70.
I think the tie thickness is all pretty close. The crucial measurement is the total thickness of the tie, web of rail, and the cork or whatever roadbed is used over the subroadbed. The 948-360 spikes work fine with all, as it's just a little bit longed than that total measurement. That's the tip that needs to penetrate the wood of the subroadbed enough to hold, but not so much you're pushing it through a lot of wood.
Mike, thanks for that info. I have never considered spikes until now.
Sure seems worth a try.