Would this be roughly accurate for the early 70s?

[AntonioFP45]

Re: Amtrak

From 1971-73 the majority of Amtrak's "long distance run" diesel fleet was comprised of EMD E8s and E9s. The units that Amtrak purchased from the host railroads were gradually painted into the classic, Phase-1 "Pointless Arrow" scheme.  

Take a look at this page.  Variety was the scene of the day!

http://www.bcoolidge.com/Trains%20Amtrak%2071-75%20Page.htm

 

Here's an L&N unit that's seen much better days:

http://www.trainnet.org/Libraries/Lib003/AMTK225.JPG

There were a few E7s in use, however, those belonged to the host railroads as Amtrak deemed them too outdated for purchase (inspite the fact that some of them could still hit 90mph in territories where it was permissible).    The SDP40fs arrived in 1973.  In the northeast corridor, GG1s commanded the majority of Amtrak runs until after the arrival of the GE E60CPs in 1974-75.  Even then, the big "Gs" soldiered on until the last units were retired in the early 80s running in NJDOT service.

[nx72905]

Hello again everyone.  I'm still new to model railroading and the wealth of information you have given me has far exceeded what I expected to learn.  I hope to be able to put a couple of pictures up after thanksgiving, but in the meantime I have gotten a lot of ideas as to what I'm going to do with the layout once I start laying real track down.  Thanks again!

[wp8thsub]

wjstix

Well he asked two questions about F7s, I was thinking more about Amtrak F7s (or F-units in general.)

Oops - you're right.  Forgot the Amtrak part (or maybe just blocked it out).

[wjstix]

wp8thsub

wjstix:

F-units lasted into the early eighties on several railroads, a few isolated pockets (like LTV Steel / Erie Mining Co. in northern Minnesota) used F's til the 2000's. So F-7s in the early seventies are fine.

The OP was asking about UP F7s.  They were gone by 1964 per the roster on the UtahRails site.

Well he asked two questions about F7s, I was thinking more about Amtrak F7s (or F-units in general.) Actually, as someone noted, in say 1972 any Amtrak F-units would probably still be in the original owner's paintscheme. Seems like it took a long time until all the equipment Amtrak had was all painted for Amtrak.

[wp8thsub]

wjstix

F-units lasted into the early eighties on several railroads, a few isolated pockets (like LTV Steel / Erie Mining Co. in northern Minnesota) used F's til the 2000's. So F-7s in the early seventies are fine.

The OP was asking about UP F7s.  They were gone by 1964 per the roster on the UtahRails site.

Wood-sided / Ice bunker reefers were pretty much gone by 1970 or so. As noted, I think the last PFE one was retired around 1972.

PFE stopped using ice bunkers cars in their original intended service in 1972.  A number of the cars remained until about 1980 in ventilator and top-ice service (crushed ice blown in over the load).  Some of the early mechanical reefers had their refrigeration units removed for top ice service as well.

One factor is that rules were introduced in the mid-sixties that required cars to not have roofwalks and to have brake wheels lower on the body.

This doesn't apply to ice bunker reefers per se, as the running board is necessary for access to the roof hatches just as with a covered hopper.  All of the photos I've seen of PFE ice bunker reefers in the 70s show them still with running boards.

Although there were delays in implementing these rules that meant you could find cars with roofwalks or high brake wheels in the seventies, they would have been fairly rare.

The supposed final deadline for removal of running boards was 1983, although not all railroads met it wih all cars.  Although the numbers of cars retaining their running boards decreased through the 70s, even by 1980 they were more common than many modelers realize. 

Cars retaining high mounted brakewheels are another story.  Provided the A end ladders were shortened to four rungs, the full height B end ladders and brakewheel could remain.  A warning label reading "keep off roof no running board" was supposed to be applied adjacent to the B end side ladder, and a L shaped grab applied to the roof.  Cars so equipped remained very common sights for many years after 1983.

[riogrande5761]

wp8thsub

A typical companion for a DDA40X would be an SD40 or SD40-2.

True for the 70's more than likely and possibly in the early 1970's there may have been even GP30's and/or GP30B's.  In my Colorful Colorado Railroads of the 1960's there is a section of the UP in the late 1960's with lots of GP30's mated with the DD engines.  Very cool pictures.

As for Amtrak in the early 1970's, that was Amtraks "rainbow" era, where many of the passenger cars inherited from the private roads operated in their original paint but some cars were being repainted into the pointless arrow logo, Amtraks early "phase I" scheme.

As far as F7A's go, there were very few.  Most of the F units inherited by Amtrak were from the SP and were FP7A's, but Amtrak may have gotten a very few F7A's from Northern Pacific or Great Northern (from distant memeories).

[cuyama]

markpierce

Is it possible to see, let alone count, an N-scale rivet with the naked eye?

Sure you can. Of course, N scale does have the nasty downside of making it harder to delay building an HO layout forever while waiting for more space ...

But don't worry, Mark, you can still come by and run on my N scale layout next year if you like -- I won't discriminate against HO'ers!

[markpierce]

Geared Steam

He asked if it was a reasonably proto accurate timeline, and he got some replies, how does make anyone a rivet counter?

Are you saying that N-scale has the least rivet counters? and have more fun?

Is it possible to see, let alone count, an N-scale rivet with the naked eye?

[chutton01]

wjstix

One factor is that rules were introduced in the mid-sixties that required cars to not have roofwalks and to have brake wheels lower on the body. Although there were delays in implementing these rules that meant you could find cars with roofwalks or high brake wheels in the seventies, they would have been fairly rare. I think many railroads found it didn't make economic sense to re-work the older cars and most of the remaining woodside or ice-bunker cars were retired in that time...plus of course, by removing ice bunker cars they didn't need ice houses, icing platforms etc.

The 1966 rule about Roofwalks would not apply in the case of Ice-Bunker cars, since roofwalks are allowed on rolling stock where workers need to access roof-top hatches and such - e.g. almost all covered hoppers out there today. No, Ice bunkers cars were partially replaced by easier to maintain Mech Refrigerators (no dripping brine water to rust out frames, for one) - and as for icing, as their number decreased I think the railroads used special (road) trucks with platforms to ice, not dedicated icing platforms.  Unfortunately, what the ice bunkers were mostly replaced by were refrigerated tractor-trailers on the Interstates...

[wjstix]

F-units lasted into the early eighties on several railroads, a few isolated pockets (like LTV Steel / Erie Mining Co. in northern Minnesota) used F's til the 2000's. So F-7s in the early seventies are fine.

However as you note, Amtrak "phase 2" paint didn't come along until I think 1976-77...about the time the F40PH was introduced. I know the Superliners in 1979-80 were delivered in phase 2 paint.

You might search for E-units in early Amtrak paint, they were passenger engines and Amtrak did have a fair number of them in the seventies. I know BLI/PCM makes sound equipped N scale E-units.

Wood-sided / Ice bunker reefers were pretty much gone by 1970 or so. As noted, I think the last PFE one was retired around 1972. One factor is that rules were introduced in the mid-sixties that required cars to not have roofwalks and to have brake wheels lower on the body. Although there were delays in implementing these rules that meant you could find cars with roofwalks or high brake wheels in the seventies, they would have been fairly rare. I think many railroads found it didn't make economic sense to re-work the older cars and most of the remaining woodside or ice-bunker cars were retired in that time...plus of course, by removing ice bunker cars they didn't need ice houses, icing platforms etc.

[Lake]

Geared Steam,  I blew it. It was the posting before engaging gears syndrome.

 

[wp8thsub]

nx72905

I figures I traded a UP GP unit for a RI switcher a few months ago!  Oh well!  What would UP run the DD40AX with?  Just anything, or would they run several together?  Im thinking of getting a non-powered engine to go with it when I get the layout up and running.

A typical companion for a DDA40X would be an SD40 or SD40-2.

[galaxy]

nx72905

The layout for right now is a 2 track oval running on EZ-track on a 4x8 with turnouts for a coaling station, 1 passenger station, and small staging yard.  eventually I will make it an L with a return line behind scenery on "real" track, but for now portability is playing a role.

Any suggestions would be appreciated!  Thanks Everyone!

I also meant to point out that the EZ track turnouts...well they can be disappointing. They may need tweaking to work right. Some people will substitue Atlas turnouts with good roadbed supports under them for the EZT's. The EZ T can be great by itself, but the turnouts can be a bear if they actup, need filing to hold right, etc..

Just a fair warning!

[nx72905]

Hey Everyone, Thanks for all of the replies.  Several of the things you guys talked about were things I never even considered. 

I really appreciate all of the info about PFE.  I haven't really been able to find too much info about it, so what you have all talked about was interesting. 

To WP8theSub:

I figures I traded a UP GP unit for a RI switcher a few months ago!  Oh well!  What would UP run the DD40AX with?  Just anything, or would they run several together?  Im thinking of getting a non-powered engine to go with it when I get the layout up and running.

To Galaxy:

I misstated when I stated coaling station.  I meant Coal mine.  Mistake mine.  Sorry about that.  As for my statement about the bachmann engines when 3 of mine are...  I was only pointing out the feeling I get at the nearby train store and several forums online that bachmann are great engines and rolling stock if you aren't looking for quality.  I know that isn't always the case though, as my dd40ax seems like a very well put together engine, and I also have several of the bachmann amtrak coachs that are very highly detailed.   I certainly didn't mean to annoy any bachmann fans!

Anyway, thats to everyone for your respones, they have definitly helped my decide on parts of my trains and layout I was a little unsure of.

Thanks!!!

[galaxy]

Well, i did a little research and found that in the early 70's you could possibly have found mostly  what you are proposing. I think the bilboard PFE cars were long gone though, could be wrong.

The only thing I see "slightly off" may be  a coaling station when you have no steamers!!! By 1970, except maybe for tourist lines,{and even then} they would have been gone.

I also question your statement of "Bachmann doesn't necessarily make the most reliable engines"??? Bachmann has worked very hard over the years since 60s and 70's "el cheapo trainset quality trains" to a real quality product. Their Spectrum series is Highly regarded.

I have been back in the hobby for 6.5 years now and have Bachmann DCC OnBoard Locos that are that old and newer. ALL 13 have given me flawless performance, even when stored away for almost a year and only brought out at Christmas, or when used as "daily runners". Only one "growls" at slow speeds.

[Geared Steam]

Lake

nx72905,

I know some of those that have replied to your post may be into the accuracy of the time line, but you can learn about the real railroad world and use the information as you please. 

You might want to go to the N scale forums and those forums that have N scale postings. You will find far more modelers into having fun with their railroad then mostly the rivet counters. Most will have the attitude that it is your railroad so make it as fun as you like it to be.

Now after saying the above, I do try and keep the era and equipment used at least close. I do search on line for information, but will also fudge the time lines and equipment if it makes me happy.  Done with my opinion.

 

He asked if it was a reasonably proto accurate timeline, and he got some replies, how does make anyone a rivet counter?

Are you saying that N-scale has the least rivet counters? and have more fun?

Think your off base, go back and read the the first post.

 

[Lake]

nx72905,

I know some of those that have replied to your post may be into the accuracy of the time line, but you can learn about the real railroad world and use the information as you please. 

You might want to go to the N scale forums and those forums that have N scale postings. You will find far more modelers into having fun with their railroad then mostly the rivet counters. Most will have the attitude that it is your railroad so make it as fun as you like it to be.

Now after saying the above, I do try and keep the era and equipment used at least close. I do search on line for information, but will also fudge the time lines and equipment if it makes me happy.  Done with my opinion.

 

[wp8thsub]

nx72905

First train is a Pacific Fruit Express Train, with a variety of PFE rolling stock.  It will have roughly 14-20 boxcars from several era's. all of which I have, pulled by a Bachmann UP Centennial DD40AX.  I may include two navy boxcars and a navy caboose on the end, haven't decided yet.

Sounds like pretty much a fantasy train.  Big blocks of PFE cars were typical in various locations in the US rail system, but the "variety" by the early 70s was mostly among different production runs of 57' mechanical refrigerator cars built in the late 60s and after.  You could see a few of the older 50' mechanical cars, and a very few of the ice bunker types, the latter often in "top ice" service, where crushed ice was blown in over the load, instead of using block ice in the bunkers.  The important traffic tended to move in the newer cars.

I don't recall seeing a DDA40X used by itself, but it's an appropriate loco for a hotshot train.

Second Train is an Amtrak train...

I'll defer to the Amtrak experts on that one. 

Third train is a UP MOW train.  It uses the Bachmann UP F7 Engine from the Highballer set, along with a custom painted flatbed, the Bachmann 250 ton crane, an UP scale test car, boxcar, and Caboose.

First generation GP units would be more typical on an MOW train at that time.  I was starting to be an active railfan of the UP transcontinental mainline in the 70s and never saw an F unit. 

A big crane is more of a wreck cleanup tool than for routine MOW.  If you want the train to look "UP," their MOW boxcars and cabooses were usually re-numbered and/or repainted for such service, and didn't look like regular revenue equipment.

Fourth Train is an Rock Island SW-7 switcher, moving coal cars around.

Local coal business was quickly disappearing, so if you saw "loose" coal hoppers they would most likely be heading to a large industry with its own power plant on site.  Your switcher could represent that aspect of 70s traffic OK.

Take the above for what it is - just responses to your questions as asked.  You have to decide how accurate you want to be, and whether you want to do further research.  Since you're a beginner, having fun and ignoring the critics might be higher priorities.  Cheers!

[chutton01]

nx72905

First train is a Pacific Fruit Express Train, with a variety of PFE rolling stock.  It will have roughly 14-20 boxcars from several era's. all of which I have, pulled by a Bachmann UP Centennial DD40AX. 

PFE Boxcars? Do you mean mechanical refrigerator cars (refeers)? I think by the early 1970s Ice-bunker cars were pretty much gone in revenue produce service (1972 is the year I remember, but don't hold me to that)

Third train is a UP MOW train.  It uses the Bachmann UP F7 Engine from the Highballer set, along with a custom painted flatbed, the Bachmann 250 ton crane, an UP scale test car, boxcar, and Caboose.

I suppose a MOW train could use cab units like the F7, but I'm not sure that was standard practice, particularly for a large railroad like UP. Also, isn't it likely that the steam crane had been converted to diesel by the 1970s?

Fourth Train is an Rock Island SW-7 switcher, moving coal cars around.

Just don't use the blue Super-graphic 'R' - The Rock livery on the switcher

[nx72905]

Hi.  I'm starting my first layout and have a varety of rolling stock.  I'm not trying to be too period specific, but I am curious if these trains I have in mind could have all existed at the same time.

I'm trying to model a total of 4 trains in N-scale, and my research has suggested the early 1970's would be roughly accurate.

First train is a Pacific Fruit Express Train, with a variety of PFE rolling stock.  It will have roughly 14-20 boxcars from several era's. all of which I have, pulled by a Bachmann UP Centennial DD40AX.  I may include two navy boxcars and a navy caboose on the end, haven't decided yet.

Second Train is an Amtrak train, using a custom painted F7 Engine in phase two paint with 2 chair cars and a observation car in phase 1.  I do realize the Phase 2 paint is probably early for the 70s, but they were the only engine decals I could find.(until the day after I bought them of course! )

Third train is a UP MOW train.  It uses the Bachmann UP F7 Engine from the Highballer set, along with a custom painted flatbed, the Bachmann 250 ton crane, an UP scale test car, boxcar, and Caboose.

Fourth Train is an Rock Island SW-7 switcher, moving coal cars around.

From what I understand, the F-series were used until the late 70s, and the steam powered cranes were in some cases used all the way into the 1980s due to the reliabity and storability of the steam engines.

I already know bachmann doesn't necessarily make the most reliable engines, but the prices were right at the time. 

The layout for right now is a 2 track oval running on EZ-track on a 4x8 with turnouts for a coaling station, 1 passenger station, and small staging yard.  eventually I will make it an L with a return line behind scenery on "real" track, but for now portability is playing a role.

Any suggestions would be appreciated!  Thanks Everyone!