One thing about this hobby that is close...close...to being universal, no matter what the scale (N, HO, O, etc) is that we are never truly ever done. It seems our layouts are always under some sort of construction, be it new or renovated scenery, structures, track, rolling stock, locomotives, electronic etc. The journey, to me at least, is more fun then the destination. You are doing some great work, and like myself (and others here) you are helping instill a love of trains and modeling into your Son, the next generation. Keep it up and keep us posted!
Happy Modeling!
Don.
"Ladies and gentlemen, I have some good news and some bad news. The bad news is that both engines have failed, and we will be stuck here for some time. The good news is that you decided to take the train and not fly."
It's coming along beautifully Green. I love your rock work. Keep us posted as you progress.
Joe
Its been a while since I have posted an update on my layout. So here goes.
After going over what I had, I decided to redo all the track work, I also realized that based on most of the radii, it would behoove me go HOn3. Which is fine, because thats what I wanted to make in the first place. So I removed all the track work and wiring. I was able to salvage the existing tortoise switch machines and wooden structures. Most of the bridges were damaged and I had to make numerous repairs. I carefully removed all of the spikes and rail from the wooden bridges.
I then re-spiked new rail to the bridges. Then I used ME hon3 flex track, which I realized that I did not like. To clarify, its not about ME, I realized I do not like flex track. I decided I would use what I have. So, I am using it in the tunnels and in some of the visible layout. All of the track work from here on out will be set by hand. I also realized that I was going to spend an arm and a leg on turnouts. I counted over 20 turnouts, so I decided to purchase a couple of fast tracks jigs.
Latter my son decided he wanted to run some locos with me. However he likes diesels. So I decided that the lower areas of the layout including the yards will be dual gauge. Some of you may cringe at the idea, but I figured we have limited space, and I can make it work.
I dont have much time to work on it. I seem to work om it in spurts. Of course I am making a bunch of mistakes, though I am learning a lot a the same time. But I wanted to share some photos of the progress.
IRONROOSTER Here is a site that covers DCC Friendly turnouts with diagrams http://www.wiringfordcc.com/switches.htm Enjoy Paul
Here is a site that covers DCC Friendly turnouts with diagrams http://www.wiringfordcc.com/switches.htm
Enjoy
Paul
Thanks for the link. I have referenced that site in the past. I was a good refresher to read the wiring section again. I do have a question for you DCC users.
Is a track bus terminator really that necessary for a 12x12 layout, and do yo agree to twist the two bus wires?
Thanks,
Mark
Hi Green
I use Atlas turn outs, motors, and slide switches and don't seem to have any problems. I did find that you have to check to see if the frog is level with the rails and snug it down with a track nail if it is not. I also put a drop of "Rail Zip" on the pivot point of the moveable rail. There is also a tiny gap between the apposing rails that may need widening to prevent a wide wheel from shorting the track.Works for me,
Good luck
Lee
In addition, if I have trouble with a household plug being hard to extract from a wall outlet, I rub a little "Rail Zip" on the plug blades. Same goes for an Atlas slide switch that got erratic.
Rather impressive layout, a little bit of "spagetti" bowl in that one cprner, however, the trackplan/ scenery seem to disquise most of it. Just make sure that some of that hidden track is accessible from behind or under the scenery.
Since you are going DCC, I wouldn't trust any of the existing wiring except for the track feeds/drops.
You seem to have done your homework, and know we will be seeing the progress of this layout.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
WOW, that is some layout.
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Here is a picture of the layout. I had to photoshop it together. Please note each segment looks slightly different due to the lighting.
Here is a drawing of what the track plan.
Bob, when I got started I was broke (still am) and I was buying used Atlas turnouts off E Bay, some are probably 20 years old. When I went DCC I was all so worried about using them DCC and what need to be done to make them DCC friendly.
I did nothing to them and they work just fine, I did the conversion 4 years ago now. I have all so started using some Brass Atlas #4 turnouts and still no problems.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
HHPATH56It sounds like you should divide the three 4'x6' tables into three DCC Power Districts. I have divided my 24'x24' HO layout into 5 Power Districts, that sre controlled by Digitrax Super Chief. Mine is a around-the-room layout with an inside stairway to the garage loft layout Will your three 4'x6' form an Island, in the center of the room. Remember, that 28" is maximum reach, and all tunnels must have portals, (or be part of lift-out mountains). I use 14Ga. wire all the way around the room with connection to the #150 Loconet DCC control. The five Power Districts are connected to the #150 Loconet via tethered 6 wire connectors. The #14 wire is connected to 5 independent #16 Bus wires and every 3' section of track is soldered to the two rails, with #20 feeder wires that connect to the five independent bus wires with "suitcase connectors". With a railroad of my size, I use 4 Boosters (with their own power supplies. 96 of the electrically controlled numbered turnouts are divided between the 5 Power districts,(as shown in the photo). I use double-coil-solenoid turnout motors. (can't see why one would use a coil of wire (as shown in your photo) I use 12 or 24 double-screw knob switch terminals, with probe touch common to operate. For the 110 turnouts on my layout, it was best to stay away from DCC switch controls. The 14 non-electrically controlled turnouts are "easily reached" manual turnouts. If you can afford it, go for DCC Radio Control of the track, and turnouts. Happy model railroading ! Bob Hahn
Bob,
Thanks for the image of your terminal, looks like a clean set up. I am going to look into it.
Sorry for not checking in earlier. The 9-5 kind of gets in the way of MRR. Thanks for all the responses. It is a lot to take in. My comment about atlas turnouts and DCC was basically inquiring if their are any nuances that I should be careful about. I think they are Atlas turnouts.
I am hoping that its a non issue, maybe they will work just fine. I will just have to get the thing set up and see what happens.
I am not going to change the tortoise turnouts to DCC unless I feel a need to do so. But I am going to rewire them.
I am planning on making each table a district. Each district will have an NCE CP6 circuit protector. I am also planning on using the hexfrog juicer on turnouts that may not switch polarity correctly, as well as the turntable. However I may switch out the turn table to a DCC Walthers, (this will negate the use of a HFJ) but I am going to experiment first with the one that the layout came with.
I like the idea of specific electrical items having its own color coded wires. That would make it easy to visualize any potential wiring problems.
Thanks again for all the help.
Texas Zepher Have to admit that I don't know what a Hexfrog is, but I am guessing that if I did I might understand the question better and actually be able to give a meaningful answer.
Have to admit that I don't know what a Hexfrog is, but I am guessing that if I did I might understand the question better and actually be able to give a meaningful answer.
"Hexfrog" is probably a "Hex Frog Juicer" from Tam Valley. An electronic gizmo that senses shorts, and then reverse "polarity" to the output wire (which is soldered to the frog of a turnout) fast - faster than the fuse of command station of a DCC system trips.
Used if you don't want to feed the frog via the tongues of the turnout, and you don't want to use an insulfrog, and you don't want to wire power to the frog from whatever you are using to throw the turnout (whether it be mechanical or some kind of electric switch motor).
In other words - nice to have, but not necessary unless you experience stalling on a turnout (and thus need to power the frog), or have problems feeding the frog in some other way,
Smile, Stein
I do not think that he was looking at DCC controlled turnouts. Just for turnouts that worked with DCC. Some, apparently, do not.
LIONS have their own way of doing things.
AS Lion mentioned, those coils are likely electromagnets to uncouple Kadee couplers. Give 'em some juice (probably 12 Volts DC) and they get magnetic and will cause the Kadee's to uncouple (if you have some slack). Turn 'em off to prevent nuisance uncoupling. I use permanent magnet uncouplers and I don't have nuisance uncoupling.
In principle, you can go over to DCC by merely replacing the DC power pack with a DCC amplifier. Was ot me, I'd get the layout together and running on DC before switching over. If you know that everything worked BEFORE switching to DCC, then when the new DCC rig doesn't work, you can confine your trouble shooting to just the stuff you changed.
If you are planning on operating sessions with many engineers running many trains at once, the DCC is very attractive. If you will be operating the layout by yourself, then plain old DC works just fine. I see no advantage to DCC for turnout control.
I would preserve any block switching capability the DC layout possesses in a conversion. When trouble shooting and looking for a short it is VERY helpful to switch sections of the layout OFF. If the short goes away after switching a block OFF, then you know the short is in that block.
If the wiring and the turnouts work on DC, they will probably work on DCC. I would not start rewiring the layout, or replacing turnouts until I had tried running under DCC and encountered problems.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
Green The one thing that I am worried about is the turnouts and dcc.
Do you have any advice on converting atlas to DCC.
Lion pretty much hit it right on the head, I would probably re wire using color coded wire so if you have problems it is easier to pin point. I use red for + and white for - and then I go with different colors for lights, switches and other stuff. Im using 12 ga for bus lines going to terminal strips under each module and then feed the tracks with 18 ga again matching color to color. I am changing over to NCE DCC Radio system. I would suggest you add a breaker before the first terminal strip. You should also get a auto reverser for your turntable if its not a DCC compatible unit. I am in the middle of rebuilding my layout and dont have it all wired up but I have not had any issues with turnouts yet. Im sure what you had probably worked but I would clean it up and then you know what you have and can trouble shoot a lot easier. Good Luck
Dugan
Thanks Lion,
I appreciate the help.
Green The info you provided on wiring is very helpful. The one thing that I am worried about is the turnouts and dcc. I think they are atlas turnouts. Not sure how to tell for sure without removing them. I am familiar with Peco insulfrogs. Do you have any advice on converting atlas to DCC. I have two hexfrogs that I think may simplify things. I have an NCE procab with a smatbooster that I am planning on using. Thanks again for all the help.
The info you provided on wiring is very helpful. The one thing that I am worried about is the turnouts and dcc. I think they are atlas turnouts. Not sure how to tell for sure without removing them. I am familiar with Peco insulfrogs. Do you have any advice on converting atlas to DCC. I have two hexfrogs that I think may simplify things.
I have an NCE procab with a smatbooster that I am planning on using.
Ah, yes, the turnouts. Well the LION does not use DCC so you will need to source that through someone else. The LION knew that the DCC really does want 14 ga wire, and so that is what I used on my layout.But I have migrated to ATC (Automatic Train Control) and so is straight DC and is on always, I have no throttles or reversing switches power packs or whatever. Just on huge regulated power supply putting out 15 amps. I run 8 trains at a time and cannot have power fluctuations caused by trains stopping and starting. But it is just one BIG circuit, which is sort of the way DCC does it.
LION knows that some switches can be a problem, and if I am not mistaken, some Atlas switches are marked DCC compatible. Don't bet the bank on the older ones.
Enjoy the layout!
BroadwayLion,
Thanks for the info. It makes sense that the red spools would be uncoupling magnets. The layout has three, all of them are situated at a location where one would want to uncouple a car.
The layout is a loop, and it has a yard, with a turntable, and a small mining operation. It actually also has an hon30 mine. Multiple spurs, probably has close to two dozen turnouts, about ten turtle motors. and I think each bench is a block because each one has a screw and copper wire "lion"?
I started drawing a diagram of the layout. I'll post pictures once I get to a point where I think it makes sense to get feedback.
It looks like a LION has been wiring your layout!
The spool of wire is an electro magnet to control an uncoupler perhaps along a main line where an unintentional parting of the train would be an unhappy state of affairs.You can run 12 v dc through it without a problem. Use a push button so that it will not be on all of the time.
As for the track power, if you are moving to DCC you want to use 14 ga wire anyway, and so will probably have to pull out what is there.
Look at the layout? Is it a loop or is it a point to point. If a loop make the inside rail your negative side and use a white wire (maybe someone else will tell you if there are standard colors that you should use). Make the outside rail (+) and use a black wire. You can connect matching 18 ga wires to your rails and use a suitcase (insulation displacing) connector to connect to your main (14 ga) wires. Make a connection every six feet or so. But this will give you only one block, which is fine for DCC or for DC if you run only one train at a time. [It it is a point to point layout, decide which end is northbound and make the left track - and the right track +]
The wires and screws that you have shown are not standard, but are not all that different from what I do, using nails and solder. LIONS are cheap, after all.They WORK, and apparently one rank is connected to + and the other to -, with track feeders leading down to this. Those wires do not look heavy enough for a DCC layout. Since all of the feeders (if that is what the are) are connected to the same leads, it looks like you are operating only one block, unless of course there is another setup just like that for the second block in which case there will have to be switches somewhere to select between them. Besides, you would know if you had one power supply or two.
Yes, you *can* run trains with these smaller wires, but what you loose is the slower speeds since you will need a higher voltage to push the same current through the wires. If you do not know what I just said, don't worry about it, just go ahead and use bigger wires.
ROAR
Hello all,
So I have been doing a ton of research on building a layout over the past couple of years. I have read all sort of materials, and started to build a small yard. My wife and I had a couple of kids over the past three years and as those things go, its been hard to find time to really get into building anything. My wife agreed to let me look into buying a used layout, in the hopes that it would save me some time, (what a wonderful woman) and actually start enjoying the hobby.
Now I am not naive and fully understand that when buying something used you are inheriting good and bad. Well I found a layout for sale last week. Its a western mountain diorama. Approximately 12x12... its gorgeous, and I still cant get over that I own this thing. The person I purchased it from did not know a whole lot about it. So he is not a whole lot of help. He had it made by what appears to be an amazing modeler. And sold it because of a need for space.
Its modular to a certain extent. Its basically three 4x6 benches that are connected by bridges. Each bench share the same level of craftsmanship, and building techniques.
Its a DC layout, I am going DCC so I started to reverse engineer, the layout and started to figure out how the electrical is set up. This is where some of the bad comes in.
The wires are not color coded (not that big of a deal), and looking at it some things look poorly set up. So after drawing some diagrams and figure out how things work on this thing. I am stumped by a couple of things.
1. Under 3 particular turnouts it appears to have a spool of thin red wire. I cant figure out what the are?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/marcom50/6258601557/
2. The terminals are basically screws with a copper wire, is this common?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/marcom50/6259127118/