I model 1926 in S scale, my theme is rural branch line operations in the service of the Southern California citrus industry, to that end and due to my choice of scale I have became very critical of correct rolling stock, my most numerous models are my Pacific Fruit Express fleet, to which i've got over 200 examples cast from homemade masters to represent specific classes which will most likely will never be produced in any scale, PFE was an early advocate of the 40 foot reefer, yet they too progressed with the times, its a good overview of car construction and upgrading techniques across a broad spectrum of time as many of the PFE practices were later adopted by the industry:
1909 steel frames became mandatory in new construction, all equiptment not so equipped is retired, already built up trucks, such as the Arch Bar design are on the elimination list.
1910 the famous PFE T section Bettendorf cast trucks are introduced, this sent many earlier reefer classes to the scap heap as it was too costly to retrofit new truck asemblies to their existing bolsters assemblies, PFE did however evaluate and rebuild a massive number with steel underframes and cast trucks usually those with a minium 10 years service life remaining.
The 1911 safety appliance act required additional handholds and mandated their spacing and placement in addition to other specifics, this effected all North American rolling stock, equiptment so modified was required by law to be stenciled in a visible location on the car side.
1916 steel roofs are introduced but not exclusive to new construction-this was a slow process on rebuilds, well into the twenties wooden sheath roofs were common, yet their were thousands of rebuilds with steel roofs a product of PFE;s selective process of rebuilding.
1916 also saw the application of black roof paint on steel roofs and the addition of hatch platforms for safety reasons, wooden roofs continued to do without hatch platforms and remained painted PFE red
1917-1922 PFE continued to evaluate various cast truck designs, new steel coupler pocket assemblies were mandated, PFE experienced continued issues with wood siding shifitng in the side frames, angle iron and bolts were retrofitted at the sill plates to alleviate this condition and further serve as a good source for dating photosof these cars.
1922-1928 PFE adopted the use of SP/UP heralds, painted or enameled steel placards, too many times the enameled version had the habit of coming adrift at speed, posing a hazzard, theft too was an issue, a program was instituted to remove them as soon as possible, yet many survived into the thrities. AB brakes become the new standard, several classes of early reefer technology depart the roster due to obsolence.
1929 PFE adopts orange paint for carbody sides, within 5 years PFE yellow becomes extinct.
All these changes are incorporated into my modeling, and represent just one specifiec example of how rolling stock evolved with the times.
Dave
Boxcars-- 40' most common. Boxcars BUILT as all-steel 40' AAR boxcars....
and Atlas makes some great models of car built ca 1920s as steel-underframe wood-side boxcars, but rebuilt in 1930s as all-steel cars. (There are subtle differences in appearance of boxcar BUILT as all-steel car and one rebuilt)
You would probably have a few older single-sheathed wood side ("outside braced") boxcars and perhaps some single sheathed wood, okld cars leftover from 1920s.
And a PRR X-29 even if you model someplace FAR from PRR.
One of the most common boxcars made for years and years for N scale was PS-1 boxcar with WELDED seams between nthe bnside sheets, not rivets. This came along in late 40s... too new for a WWII layout.
Also all your boxcars will have "roofwalks" (aka running boards.)
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Two-bay covered hoppers for cement etc. NOT the longer 3 bay cars used for grain, which were generally introduced in mid 1950s.
Iced refrigerator cars (not mechanically refrigerated). 40' common, also some 50' used in express reefer service.
Tankcars with expansion domes common, most around 40'
Some cars with small manway instead of expansion dome used for chemical loads such as chlorine, etc.
Hey, just going to take a couple of minutes here to thank you all for giving this greenhorn some feedback.
Cowman, good to know about ideal reaching limits on a layout. I'm already thinking about putting an O scale line under the N Scale line so the little guy can play while I play.
Beach Bill, good advice about the turning radius. That Big Boy is pretty long, not to mention, I know some passenger cars are quite long as well. I'm really hoping to get some serious use out of the 11 foot side of the layout for long trains. I'm also going to Google "givens & Druthers" hadn't heard that one yet.
Texas Zepher, Thanks for the info on Box cars. Cool pic from Duluth. I think I might take my L shape design and move it away form the wall about 12"-16". And yes at the moment I'm all over teh place on layout, concept & design.
Dehusman, I just got back recently from a trip to Utah. That could be an option, but I'm kind of partial to the Midwest. As much as it might make some serious railroaders cringe, I think I'm going to stray away from recreating a real line and just work on making sure I have a few scenes that can fit together nicely for a story. Not dissimilar from the Great Train Story layout at the Museum of Science & Industry in Chicago. http://www.msichicago.org/whats-here/exhibits/the-great-train-story/
Steven Otte, Just checked out 7 different train related books last week. Great tip. Some fascinating reads as well.
dknelson, Love the fact you referenced the CNW & Milwaukee Road. I'm originally from Joliet, so I was thinking about adding in some EJ&E along with CNW for the industry side of the layout.
I'll make sure I post an update when I get closer to a finished layout plan. Right now I still need to get some cars & track.
Working on an N Scale EJ&E layout. My son got me into choo choo's. He's 2.
I am not as negative on the original poster's idea as some. If you are not too fussy about making everything about the layout match up with a specific era -- by which I mean, not just locomotives but their "appliances" and paint schemes, ditto for all rolling stock, road signs, vehicles, types of line poles -- the whole shootin' gallery -- then it is possible to choose certain prototypes which are certainly very flexible in terms of having very "wide" eras.
One was the Maryland & Pennsylvania, the Ma & Pa. It takes almost an expert to tell the difference between a 1920 and 1950 photo of the Ma & Pa. They tended to hang on to the same locomotives and passenger cars for a long time. Often the give away is the freight car parked in a siding in the background of the picture.
Another situation would be a midwestern branch line. Often for reasons having to do with axle loadings on bridges and such, some roads such as the Milwaukee Road, Soo Line, and Chicago & North Western kept small 1905 era steam going right to the end of steam in the late 1950s. And because those branches did not make much money, often the depot that was built in the late 1800s was still there in the 1960s. Sure paint schemes and window details often differed but it doesn't sound like our friend is into that level of purity.
Some of those roads even kept signal systems pretty much the same for decades at a time.
Now in the 40 years between they changed lettering, numbers, air brake systems, all sorts of things, on rolling stock. headlights went to electric, and so on. But a generalist could have the situation they want and not necessarily have to declare whether it was 1910 or 1940 -- and only a pretty specialized railfan would note what was wrong.
The biggest give away in most cases is the advent of steel freight cars, longer freight cars, and vehicles. What could be possible is with very modest changes swap out the changing stuff and have two eras.
Dave Nelson
Hi, Xerxes,
Beach Bill gave you a lot of great information. If I could just add one bit of wisdom, it would be a quote from former Model Railroader managing editor Jim Kelly: "If you say you model the 1950s, you're actually modeling 1959, badly." When you go to the library, choose your favorite locomotives and rolling stock, find out when they were built, and set your layout in that year. Making this decision early will keep you from wasting money on a mish-mash of equipment from different time periods that you'll be unhappy with later.
--Steven Otte, Model Railroader senior associate editorsotte@kalmbach.com
Texas Zepher Xerxes1138: I have a workroom in my basement that I'm preparing to turn into an "L" shape layout for N Scale. It will be an 11x8 foot setup that I'd like to include a farming/plains scene on the 11' side, a mountain with mining at the 90 degree point of the L, and a steel mill/industry are on the 8 foot side. So I would start looking for a place where all of these things would be together in the real world.
Xerxes1138: I have a workroom in my basement that I'm preparing to turn into an "L" shape layout for N Scale. It will be an 11x8 foot setup that I'd like to include a farming/plains scene on the 11' side, a mountain with mining at the 90 degree point of the L, and a steel mill/industry are on the 8 foot side.
Provo, UT. CF&I steel mill, served by UP, DRGW and Utah RR, in the mountains, coal mines to the east, copper mines to the north, farming in the valley. Helper grades toward Salt Lake City.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Xerxes1138I have a workroom in my basement that I'm preparing to turn into an "L" shape layout for N Scale. It will be an 11x8 foot setup that I'd like to include a farming/plains scene on the 11' side, a mountain with mining at the 90 degree point of the L, and a steel mill/industry are on the 8 foot side.
I'd like to give it a feel that puts it ambiguously between 1910 & 1940. My big question is not so much about the engines or buildings that were used, but the freight & passenger cars from that time.
Was there a time frame that certain cars were introduced, or stopped being used? (Milk cars would be an example of what I'm talking about.)
What size cars were normally used then? (I know there are 36', 50' & 60' box cars, I'm just not sure on when they were used.
Also, with the L layout format, is 4 feet wide to much for N scale? Should I go for 3'? Or set up layout so it rolls away from the wall?
The mention of "I have a real love for the some of the big steamers like the 4-6-6-4 & the Big Boy" provides a great deal of information about where & when you might want to focus your attention. The Union Pacific Big Boy is as distinctive a locomotive as there is, and was introduced around 1941. The UP Challenger 4-6-6-4 is nearly as distinctive and is also from this "late steam" period.
If you plan to run the big articulateds, you will want to set your minimum radius as wide as possible. Don't set your minimum track radius based just on what the "minimum radius" of that Big Boy model happens to be - if you can make your track radius bigger the locomotive will look and operate far better. These are BIG engines and thus also only look "normal" if they have a decent-sized train behind them, so that goes into your planning for length of passing sidings.
Of course, the UP and connecting railroads did operate a wide range of smaller steam at the same period that those big articulateds were running. UP kept some small 2-8-0s in steam until complete dieselizaton for use on some branch lines that had lighter bridges and trackwork. "Your" railroad could possibly be a shortline branch that connects with the UP and has trackage rights over a small portion of the UP to allow access to the city yard.
If you are going for that "early WWII" period, though, you have justification to run lots of trains as traffic was very heavy. Those big locomotives can pull long strings of boxcar red 40-foot boxcars or long strings of refrigerator cars such as the orange PFEs, or even the long strings of similar-sized tank cars that were used as "pipelines" during the war period. Heavyweight passenger cars with 6-axle trucks would be common, a few lightweight passenger cars would be appearing.
You have likely already encountered the term "givens and druthers" as you have looked at model railroad planning. You have some of the "givens" in terms of the space available and selection of scale. The desire to run big articulateds is one on that "druthers" column, and you should write down and develop those lists as you sort this out.
Bill
Welcome to the forums.
Bill gave you comments on the era, I'll try to add some about the layout size.
Usually 30" is considered maximum reach. Of course actual reach depends on your height, arm length and layout height. The idea is that you don't damage trees, buildings or other scenic elements when you reach in. A good way to see what's best for you is to take a piece of plywood with some buildings or such on it. See at what height you can reach in what distance without hitting things. Since it appears you have a future engineer coming along, you might want to think a lower layout, so he can see it better. The other option would be to have a stool or bench for him to sit on.
A 4' wide layout is fine if you can get to both sides. I have a small one and have a scenic divider in the middle, so my trains go out of sight. The divider can be a mountain ridge or as I did painted sky, to which you could add mountains and other scenery if you have the talant. With N scale you have opportunity to have a fair amount of scenery on both sides of the divider.
A layout the size you propose would be a little difficult to roll around, especially if L shaped. If you had one leg of your layout 4' wide and able to get to both sides, have your other leg 3' wide with mountains or buildings on the back, so you don't have trains to reach. (They most often derail where you can't reach them.)
Hope this helps a bit and that the little fellow keeps his interest.
Have fun,
Richard
Bill, first off, you're the man. That was a great breakdown. Thank you. I have a real love for the some of the big steamers like the 4-6-6-4 & the Big Boy, which is why I wanted to push it to the 1940's, but their are a few earlier models I like too. I was already planning on keeping my layout fairly car free just for the above stated reason and like you were saying. The rolling stock was really my big concern.
Think I'm going to check out the library today.
Cheers,
Vincent
"....a feel that puts it ambiguously between 1910 & 1940..." can be a tall order, as American railroads developed tremendously during this period. The newest model automobile or locomotive that you put on your layout will set the time at "at least" then* (* Well, at least it will set the era for many fellow model railroaders who get very specific about those things - many general guests and visitors are far more tolerant or simply don't notice a few things out of place, although something like a new Corvette riding on a truss-rod freight car is going to require some explanation.)
There is also some difference between what was "standard" on major railroads and what was found on many shortlines that made do with older equipment when RR income declined due to the advent of the automobile and then the Depression.
So, here are some "general" answers to your questions, recognizing that in our huge country there was lots of variation. 1910: predominately wooden freight cars, or wooden with steel underframes. WWI saw the major railroads taken over by the Federal Government to meet the challenge of the war, and many "standard" styles of both steam locomotives and freight cars were introduced, including some steel hoppers that lasted many years. Passenger cars were predominately steel by WW1, except on some of those shortlines.
1920s: Greater use of steel in all car construction. "Billboard reefer" era. Steam locomotives were more likely to have trailing trucks as the firebox size increased.
1930s: Many RRs did major advertising of their top passenger trains in the (last ditch) effort to promote rail traffic over the automobile onslaught. Due to the great depression, many items were pressed into usage longer than first anticipated, and new freight car construction was somewhat limited (general business slowdown, reduced demand, etc.). The great streamliners still caught the public attention, though. Freight cars became heavier.
1940s: WWII created tremendous demand on the railroads. Some steel-saving "composition" freight cars were built, using more wood with steel frames or bracing to use the steel for the war effort (many of these did not hold up real well). The 40' boxcar was pretty much the "standard" at the start of the decade. Refrigerator cars generally still used ice for the first half of the decade.
Now, your proposal can still be acomplished with careful consideration of your structures or buildings. The somewhat "generic" small town train stations were often built around the turn of the century and many lasted to the 1950's. The style of water tanks and engine houses can similarly be rather generic and span many decades.
I've been at this hobby for quite a few years, and I suggest that you read as much as you can about railroads and their developement before investing too much money on the models. There is simply too much "stuff" out there, and no one can afford it all no matter how much we try. Use your public library; the train books in there may be somewhat "out of date", but you are looking for information on how they looked 60+ years ago anyway. If you can condense you "era" and your concept for your railroad into a more specific and unified whole, then you can more easily sort through all of the locomotives and cars, focusing on the ones that fit YOUR concept of what your RR should look like.
Enjoy. Bill
**Disclaimer: I am brand new to model railroading, please go easy on any of my rookie questions.**
I have a workroom in my basement that I'm preparing to turn into an "L" shape layout for N Scale. It will be an 11x8 foot setup that I'd like to include a farming/plains scene on the 11' side, a mountain with mining at the 90 degree point of the L, and a steel mill/industry are on the 8 foot side.
What size cars were normally used then? (I know there are 36', 50' & 60' box cars, I'm just not sure on when they were used.)
Any suggestions, advice or links to articles is appreciated.