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a question on atlas crossings

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a question on atlas crossings
Posted by BIG JERR on Sunday, September 11, 2011 10:49 PM

hey all Im trying to figure out what cossing to use across a two trk main .if I take a 19 degree and a #4 custom line seems to fit fine but what size or degree for a #6 custom line turnout to cross from inside main across out side main ? and keep em straite ..hope that makes since ...Jerry

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Posted by BIG JERR on Monday, September 12, 2011 12:01 AM

ok; found the answer on the atlas site looks like a 12.5 degree crossing is the mate for a #6. Now I need to find the length of one leg of the crossing ?   Jerry

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, September 12, 2011 5:30 AM

Jerry,

You are correct.  The 19 degree crossing is used with the #4 turnouts.  The 12.5 degree crossing is used with the #6 turnouts.  Each leg of the 12.5 degree crossing measures exactly 9 inches. from end to end.

Rich

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Posted by jrbernier on Monday, September 12, 2011 8:28 AM

Jerr,

  The Atlas Customline #4 turnout has a 12.5 degree frog - You need a 12.5 degree Atlas crossing.  An Atlas Customeline #6 has a 9.5 degree frog.  Atlas does NOT have a compatible crossing.  Shinohara does have a 9.5 degree crossing.  Here is a link to them:

http://www.walthers.com/exec/search?category=Track&scale=H&manu=shinohara&item=&keywords=9.5+degree&words=restrict&instock=Q&split=30&Submit=Search

Jim

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, September 12, 2011 8:34 AM

jrbernier

Jerr,

  The Atlas Customline #4 turnout has a 12.5 degree frog - You need a 12.5 degree Atlas crossing.  An Atlas Customeline #6 has a 9.5 degree frog.  Atlas does NOT have a compatible crossing.  Shinohara does have a 9.5 degree crossing. 

Maybe so, but trust me, the 12.5 degree crossing works fine with the Atlas #6 turnouts.

Rich

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Monday, September 12, 2011 9:59 AM

The LION wants to make some double crossovers. I have one pre made (Walters-Shinoharra) but those suckers cost about $100.00 each. LION has many snap switches and No. 4 and No. 6 switches, but no crossover that will yield a double crossover. HIM has been trying to figure it out, but maybe somebody already knows.

Thanks.

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Posted by BIG JERR on Monday, September 12, 2011 10:25 AM

thanks guys on the explanation and I do see that the 12.5 is stil not exact for the #6, that measurement is what  I needed most ,thanks again Jerry 

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Posted by mikeGTW on Monday, September 12, 2011 11:29 AM

I have an original package for a #6 atlas switch and it shows on the back a double crossover using a 19 degree crossover  and two pieces of track added in 2" long   I just tried some #4 switches and the 25 degree crossing fits perfect  and it says on the back #4 - 25 degree

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Posted by BIG JERR on Monday, September 12, 2011 1:39 PM

I'll have to check that out ,on the back of the package for the custom line turnouts you say? thanks ..Jerry   ps I never throw out my packages

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Posted by BIG JERR on Monday, September 12, 2011 1:45 PM

well nothing on the back of mine ,are you sure were talking the "custom line" .may be they changed there packaging  .thanks though Jerry

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, September 12, 2011 6:05 PM

richhotrain

 jrbernier:

Jerr,

  The Atlas Customline #4 turnout has a 12.5 degree frog - You need a 12.5 degree Atlas crossing.  An Atlas Customeline #6 has a 9.5 degree frog.  Atlas does NOT have a compatible crossing.  Shinohara does have a 9.5 degree crossing. 

 

Maybe so, but trust me, the 12.5 degree crossing works fine with the Atlas #6 turnouts.

Rich

I need to correct myself.  I spoke from memory before and that is always a dangerous thing.

The Atlas 12.5 degree crossing lines up nice and parallel with an Atlas #4 turnout, not an Atlas #6 turnout.  

On my old layout, I had a double main line with a crossing from the outside track across the inside track to reach the yard.  I had to use a #4 turnout with a 12.5 degree crossing to accomplish this.

The length of each leg of the 12.5 degree crossing is 9 inches exactly.

Rich

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, September 12, 2011 6:08 PM

BroadwayLion

The LION wants to make some double crossovers. I have one pre made (Walters-Shinoharra) but those suckers cost about $100.00 each. LION has many snap switches and No. 4 and No. 6 switches, but no crossover that will yield a double crossover. HIM has been trying to figure it out, but maybe somebody already knows.

Thanks.

You can pick up a double crossover (HO scale, Code 83) for $64 at MB Klein.

Rich

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Posted by cowman on Monday, September 12, 2011 7:17 PM

I have an Atlas Track Planner here and it calls for a 25 degree crossing for #4's and a19 degree for #6's, both end up with 3" track centers.  The #4's call for a 2 1/2" straight piece between the switches on each side, and a total length of 21 1/2".  For the #6's, a 2" piece between the turnouts and a total length of 26".

Hope this helps.

Good luck,

Richard

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, September 13, 2011 5:17 AM

cowman

I have an Atlas Track Planner here and it calls for a 25 degree crossing for #4's and a19 degree for #6's, both end up with 3" track centers.  The #4's call for a 2 1/2" straight piece between the switches on each side, and a total length of 21 1/2".  For the #6's, a 2" piece between the turnouts and a total length of 26".

Hope this helps.

Good luck,

Richard

This thread seems to grow more confusing as it progresses.   Now we are talking about 25 degree crossings. 

I can only tell you that when I set up a 12.5 degree crossing with a #4 turnout yesterday on my work bench, I was able to form a set of parallel main line tracks with the crossing running across the inside track from the outside track.

As Jim Bernier correctly mentioned in an earlier reply, the 12.5 degree crossing matches the frog on a #4 turnout, and a 9 degree crossing matches the frog on a #6 turnout.

When Richard mentions "turnouts", perhaps we are talking about 3 parallel tracks with a crossing on the middle track connecting turnouts on the 2 outer tracks.

But, if you just need to establish a crossing from the outer main line track across the inner main line track, a 12.5 degree crossing and a #4 turnout will do it.

Rich

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Posted by mikeGTW on Tuesday, September 13, 2011 9:08 AM

Rich is correct    I had to go back and reread all of this   if you want to just cross one main from the other one on a two track main using just one switch either a #4 (12.5 degree) or #6 ( 9 degree ) The 25 degree and 19 degree are used for a double crossover  using four switches  We were getting confused talking about two different things

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Posted by fwright on Tuesday, September 13, 2011 9:22 AM

richhotrain

This thread seems to grow more confusing as it progresses.   Now we are talking about 25 degree crossings. 

I can only tell you that when I set up a 12.5 degree crossing with a #4 turnout yesterday on my work bench, I was able to form a set of parallel main line tracks with the crossing running across the inside track from the outside track.

I think the confusion is arising from double or X crossovers, compared to a single crossing of the middle of 3 parallel tracks.

The Atlas #4 turnout has a diverging angle of 12.5 degrees; the #6 has an angle of 9.5 degrees.

For a crossing of a parallel track from a turnout on the adjacent track, the crossing angle matches the frog angle if no curved track is used.  A 12.5 degree or 9.5 degree crossing is needed.

For a double or X crossover, with the crossing between the parallel tracks, the crossing has double the angle of the turnout frogs.  A 25 degree crossing is used with #4 turnouts, the 19 degree crossing is used with #6s.

An issue with any crossing - as the angle gets shallower, the more difficult it becomes to place the guard rails to prevent a wheelset from taking the wrong path in the K frog.  A 9.5 degree crossing with NMRA-spec flangeways is difficult to make with functional guard rails.  Shallower than the 9.5 degree (#6 frog) is almost impossible.

Using some curved track in between the turnout and the crossing allows shorter crossovers and better crossing angles.

my thoughts, your choices

Fred W

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Tuesday, September 13, 2011 5:48 PM

mikeGTW

I have an original package for a #6 atlas switch and it shows on the back a double crossover using a 19 degree crossover  and two pieces of track added in 2" long   I just tried some #4 switches and the 25 degree crossing fits perfect  and it says on the back #4 - 25 degree

 

Gee... *my* original package has no such information on it: Smile

 

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Posted by cowman on Tuesday, September 13, 2011 7:37 PM

Jerry,

It does make a difference if you want a double crossing from one mainline track to the other or just turn from one and cross the other to get to a yard or other siding.  You have answers to both situations in these comments.

My comments were for crossing from one track to the other. 

Have fun,

Richard

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Posted by BIG JERR on Tuesday, September 13, 2011 8:54 PM

yes I see my error ,My question was for say a switch lead running next to a main line and cross to the other side withOUT merging on to the main,   NOT a double crossover ..thanks to all ,I think I got it 12.5 for a #4 & a 9.5 for a # 6...thanks Jerry

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Posted by Geep Fan on Tuesday, September 13, 2011 9:46 PM

Well i am trying to use Atlas Code 83 #6 turnouts and if any of you have Lance Mindheims designing switching layout book, the number one plan in the back uses a crossing with #6 turnouts.. it doesn't say what the crossing is but i can't get anything to line up... this is not a double cross over just a crossing that lines up with two number 6 turnouts. I dont see any code 83  9.5 degree crossings. Looks like i need to scratch my #6 turnouts in this section and use the number 4's and a 12.5 degree cross over.  

Corey

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, September 14, 2011 5:36 AM

Geep Fan

Well i am trying to use Atlas Code 83 #6 turnouts and if any of you have Lance Mindheims designing switching layout book, the number one plan in the back uses a crossing with #6 turnouts.. it doesn't say what the crossing is but i can't get anything to line up... this is not a double cross over just a crossing that lines up with two number 6 turnouts. I dont see any code 83  9.5 degree crossings. Looks like i need to scratch my #6 turnouts in this section and use the number 4's and a 12.5 degree cross over.  

Corey

Corey, you are right.  That Walthers link that Jim provided earlier is for Code 100 crossings that are 9.5 degrees.  A search of Walthers did not turn up any Code 83 crossings that are 9.5 degrees.

it would seem that a 12.5 degree crossing across the middle track could be connected to #6 turnouts on the two outer tracks, but not directly.  The turnouts would need to be spaced further apart to allow additional track to be inserted on either side of the crossing legs to accomodate the angle of the 12.5 degree crossing.  Has anyone tried it?

Rich

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Posted by Geep Fan on Wednesday, September 14, 2011 5:59 AM

Thanks Rich, I think if you spaced them far enough apart it would work and splicing in track but would look worse than # 4's i think on my switching layout. I have to pick up a 12.5 tonight and will give it a try.

 

Corey

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Thursday, September 15, 2011 6:59 AM

richhotrain

 

 

 

Corey, you are right.  That Walthers link that Jim provided earlier is for Code 100 crossings that are 9.5 degrees.  A search of Walthers did not turn up any Code 83 crossings that are 9.5 degrees.

 

 

At this point I would begin to look at double slip switches.

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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