So did this layout ever get off the ground? Just wondering...
Okay so here are the finial plans. One of these I shall be going with. Please feel free to check out my blog for the continuation of this plan and pictures. I am on a mission here now. http://bbrailways.blogspot.com/
Plan 1
Plan 2
Plan 3
Plan 4
Nathan
Cambridge, Ont
B & B Railways - "Connecting the North, one rail at a time"
Deleted my wordy post, which seemed like a good one at the time.
- Douglas
Not quite sure what you are talking about Paul. The 3rd picture where there are the 3 tracks in the loop are for storage and staging below the layout. I didnt make them for normal use. They are long enough for trains of about 12-15 or so cars in the inside loop. The area that would be over the top of this I left mostly unfinished to allow the OP to add the undustries like he would like.
Yes I designed this for both continuous running and for switching but I did not spend alot of time on the switching aspect since I dont really know what the OP wants for that. I stated so in the write up I made. Mainly I was designing a new benchwork for him that give him better use of his space and still enables him to have a couple of the features that seem dominate on his other designs. I would not build my layout in this fashion if this were my basement.
Massey
A Veteran, whether active duty, retired, national guard, or reserve, is someone who, at one point in his or her life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America" for an amount of "up to and including my life."
Hi gentlemen,
it is time to step back.
Massey used the 4 feet wide space north of the furnace for a turn-back curve, witch enables you to have a longer mainline. A great idea with a drawback. When 3 passing sidings beside staging are incorporated interesting two train through-traffic becomes possible.
It is time to carefully think about operating patterns, what do you want to do.....seeing multiple trains running mostly unattended over your layout? Building and taking freight-trains apart (classification) and switch them into locals, serving all kind of industries? What about passenger trains? A bit of everything? And in which era and locale?
These questions are leading to setting standards, modern long freightcars are in need of amazingly large radii and switch numbers. The turn-back curve on the 4 feet wide table enables you to have a 18" minimum radius. Far from sufficient for modern freightcars or coaches. This was the reason i did not even consider a turn-back curve in that area.
Using a duck-under or lift-out for entering and leaving your train space only is not a heavy burden, if you have to duck-under often during a operating session because your train is doing business in the other part of the room, the fun could be not that big soon.
Smile
Paul
OK, try using my benchwork for your ideas in track. I think that my benchwork does a little better at using the space you have. You gain a larger isle on the east side even though I made the far eastern peninsula 4' wide. On the western side you really could not use much space due to the location of the pole, so I made the pole part of the center peninsula. The trackwork that goes under the stairs is a single 1x4 that can be removed when not in use. Last the liftout in the middle is 48" long that gives you lots of room for laundry and if needed access to the water heater and what not. Oh last but not least the bench is only 1' deep near the power box.
Hey Massey,
This is cool, thank you so much, I do like this one alot, and has a lot of track that is workable. I will tinker a little with it and copy it into my program as it tell me what I need for track. Thanks again for the help.
This is one I did this afternoon...was bored
OK here is what I came up with. I did the bench work first and I followed your basic plan but made a few changes. I hope you like it, you get more isle space and a better use of the space for trackage. The area near the furnace can be shortened to give you room to work the spur on the end there.
Here is the quickie mainline I drew up. this is just a quickie and a rough draft but functional and expandable. There is a 1.8% incline needed from the eastern peninsula to just before the tracks cross. and the yard is at the higher level. a down grade can be done after the stairs.
And last is the staging. I figured it to be about 10-12 inches below with 3 storage tracks. The grade down is between 2.5 - 4% depending on where you start the down grade after the switch. The sooner the better.
With the setup I have proposed an open grid benchwork would be best at least at the eastern peninsula and in the north were the tracks go into the staging yard. Also note that the staging yard will turn a train for you so you dont need a wye.
Hi Massey,
Thanks so much for the help...it is appreciated. The red yard that you did mention was my CN interchange, as I am running that. Since it will be me mainly running and my wife when I get her going it should be fun. I look forward to see what you came up with. Again thanks. I also am tinkering with another one today too
Hey there. I cant upload while at work but I have been messing with this layout and I think I have at least a start. I just made a quicky mainline that has potential but will need tweeking.
I improved the use of space in your basement and gave you larger isles with more space for track as well. It still uses the under the stair layout that you seem hooked on but I was able to put a loop in the area north of the water heater which is also going to be the hidden staging underneath. The hidden staging will have a couple of tracks and it will be tear drop shaped so you will need either a PM42 or AR1 for the reversing. In the middle there is a 4 track yard with engine servicing, and an engine run around. The lower track of the yard is part of the mainline. Your gravel company at the moment is its own little short line going from the quarry (under the stairs) to oppisite of the yard to a loading dock to be loaded onto barges or ships. This could be changed easily. There are a couple of lines that just kinda go off to nowhere which I leave for you to decide if you want to keep them or what kind of industry to put at the ends. In the south there is a 3 track industry, on the loop there are places for 3 or 4 small industries and switching potential. There is also branchline and other switchign potential in the north but I did not include any of that in this version. Like I said tweeking is needed. I will post a pic of the benchwork only and one of the track and bench. OH and I almost forgot I put a backdrop divider between the yard and dock.
I get off work at noon Pacific time so look for my ideas around 1PM or so.
hi,
David Barrow had a small peninsula on one of his former layouts. Some warehouses separated from the mainline by a road. A few trucks were added to the scene, always IMHO one of the highlights of his layout.
It is a scene that could be added later, getting the main loop around the room in first seems sensible.
Thinking about operating patterns has to be done now, Are you hosting a larger crew regularly or are you in reality operating alone most of the time? Anyway these are quite different propositions.
Keeping a sufficiently wide path open for laundry traffic seems a very wise decision at least.
One more thing...
You need to strongly think about how you will operate the layout. The NE side is isolated from the left side loop. That means you don't want to have to duck under the lift out section back and forth frequently to switch out cars and industries. When you are in the loop, you'll want to stay there for a while.
Your idea of having the E side wall reserved for staging is a good one. You could even locate a workbench under the track, if the yard above is kept shallow enough (about 12 inches, or about 4 to 5 tracks).
Much better.
I suppose that if your landlord can tote a furnace down a 36 inch wide staircase, he shouldn't complain about having to negotiate the 36 inch space that's between the staircase and the pole. I like the wider lift-out too. I don't like the small peninsula that impedes the stair landing. I think it will be difficult to scenic and just makes the entire area seem crowded.
You will want to make the part that penetrates the stair riser removable.
With that benchwork, It looks like all trackwork will be within a 30 inch reach, with the exception of the corner near the sink.
Since you need access to the SW corner, I would make that benchwork a narrow shelf that travels the wall, rather than having an awkward duckunder that will scrape your back as you stand up.
Now go back to your first post, your givens and druthers, and prioritize. Show us how many of your wanted items will actually fit.
Okay guys, I re-traced this out, what is the thought here for the bench work? I really do like the last one I did. I am thinking though, of the interchange track in red, could be modular so that in the event of equipment change out, then it can be moved out of the way, and make the lift out longer to expand to about 3ft.
Your gaining experience in using the software, but your spinning your wheels.
You need to forget about where the tracks and industries are and concentrate on how the benchwork should be shaped to fit your space better.
If your landlord has to replace the water heater or furnace, how will the new equipment get around that pole or through the lift out?
Building code requires a 40 inch wide aisle for that reason. The 40 inch aisle code provides a width that gives a walking person plenty of elbow room, like when carrying a washer, or even a laundry basket. Any thing less is rather narrow. Since the space between the stairs and the pole is only 36 inches, your landlord was probably planning to use the wide open space (where the interchange is) to access all of the mechanicals. He will be angry if your layout blocks him.
You need to somehow provide a consistent 40 inch wide aisle between the stair landing and the mechanicals. Period!
Also, the benchwork under the stairs is too deep.
Overall, I would be concerned about getting the location of the benchwork correct, and making it skinny it in the right places and deep in the right places, before getting overly concerned about where all of the industries go. Once you get the benchwork settled, the industries can be located where there is space. The entire layout will also look better when there is proper space for the industries and depth of scenes instead of having them float on narrow benchwork in the middle of the room.
Since you are comfortable with the track penetrating the stair riser, overall, I see the shape of you layout being a long skinny oval on the left side of the basement with a 40 inch lift-out near the stair landing and an extension for staging along the NE side. Possibly some space for industries there.
This is the best one I have seen yet but the yard after the liftout is going to be useless if you have both north and south bound trains using it. That will leave you with only one track to work off and I cant see that working all too well. I will play with this tonight when I am at work if I am not too busy.
To Massy: TO answer your question, yes the format is a 1 ft grid. For the basement, I am putting up some plastic as soon as I get some, and will be painting the walls also. As for the lift out, I do not want anything to long, and yes I know about the wiring, I was shown, but a schematic would be a help and re-fresher. The dryer is not in yet, but any space in that area is not to be touched (as per the shift boss)
For Other: the post is a structural thing, so it cannot be moved.
So I took some of the ideas and came up with this format, I know some of the isle are a bit on the wee side, but it is workable for me and I am fine with that. I really like this new one I came up with. Thoughts....
Hey ONFR, am I to assume that the track plans you have been drawing are on a 1' grid? I would like to try and see if I could tinker with this if you dont mind. I have to agree that keeping the tracks away from the stairs is the best idea but if you absolutly have to make them go under the stairs I would do so with a 3" wide extension that would be removable when the layout is not in use. As for the lift out section make that as large as possible for ease of access. Mine on my layout is almost 5' long and when it is out I can freely move about my work shop with no issue. I also set my lift out with a locomotive safety that cuts the power to the main part of the layout several feet before the drop off so that you cannot accidently run a train off the end if the liftout is not in place. This is a simple thing to wire up I can draw up a schematic for you.
Personally I would do a couple of minor things to the basement before starting. The visqueen on the celing is going to be a HUGE plus and it will only cost a few $$ and some staples. See if your landlord will give you some more white paint for the walls. Offer to paint them for him if he can supply the paint and I am sure he will jump on it. The "I (heart) Tush or Tish" or who ever is cute for a kid but really... for a railroad?.... ok well maybe on an over pass or large rock... Hey that gives me an idea...
Can the dryer be moved? I cant get a good look at its location or the hookups near the washer.
hi ONFR
to be honest i have not noticed the pole in the middle of your room at first. You could consider to have the main line close to the furnace, resulting in a duck-under to the staging area. The branch to the pit could start out of the classification yard. Anyway rather(very) narrow shelves are needed to keep laundry traffic easy.
Keeping the aisle between the yard and the furnace remains possible too:
onrfanatic
I still think Paul's sketch is far better for the under stair area:
No wide benchwork under the stairs, and a wide access aisle all the way under the stairs.
Advantages with Paul's sketch:
- sump pump is not in an inaccessible location demanding a duckunder an narrow popup. Instead it is under not very deep benchwork (which can be made removable)
- No five foot reach from a one foot wide aisle under the stairs, where headrom is minimal.
When deciding how much space you have under the stairs - settle on a layout height - e.g. tracks at chest level, and then go under the stairs to see how far from the bottow end of the stairs you will need to go until you can get through the stairs from the step side to the underside. You may not have as much usable space under the stairs as you think.
One other factor to take into account: that pole in the middle of the aisle between the yard and the stairs, Given that pole, drop the switchback peninsula going up along the right side of the stairs - you'll want a three foot aisle between the stairs and that pole for easy access from the stairs towards the laundry area.
Instead, consider either doing a U curve under the stairs and come back down on the peninsula labelled "pit". Or dropping that peninsula, or making a different type of peninsula in this area.
Smile, Stein
The second plan is better than the first, so my suggestions work off of that one.
Forget about having more than one track penetrating the stairs. Judging from the picture of the stairs, I doubt that the treads are a fully 36 inches wide. More than one track will result in too wide of bench work resting on the stairs, which will definitely be a hazard. A layout is not worth a broken neck.
Forget about having a metal pole in the middle of the aisle since It splits the aisle into two 18 inch aisles. A layout is not worth a concussion.
The lift out to the laundry area should be wider. A layout is not worth a bruised body and possible ensuing blood clot.
Hmmm...I seem to be listing a lot of health problems that could be caused by your layout, which is unusual commentary for these layout planning threads......
You should probably reduce your wants. But it looks like the plan could be adjusted to prevent the hazards. I don't think it has to be scrapped.
Okay folks, I have modified 2 layouts, let me know what you guys think. If this route fails, then I have already conntacted Byron and will see from there. Since I am wanting to get started already, this will still give me some time to get the rest of the items needed. I do plan on either putting up platic or if the moeny allows a drop celing in the basement. I will be painting the walls a bit below the the height of the layout and to the top with sky blue and installing a floor of some sort.
Nathan, I have been following the posts/replies to your layout design exercise both here and on another forum. Many have made very good suggestions to you. Byron made one of the best suggestions - re-prioritize. Byron has a long track record of designing great layouts that work. I am a former customer of his and can't speak highly enough of his service. For your own long term layout enjoyment heed his advice. Better yet, turn him loose on designing your layout. You won't have to cut holes in stairs, shimmy in to the fuse box, or any other of the awkward solutions. Instead you will have a great functioning layout that fits your space, time, money, and intent.
Alan
Freelancing the LK&O Railroad
You may have another hazard there with the penetration of the stair, especially for someone descending and especially for someone not very familiar with the situation. And, once again, you may be violating the building code with such a hazard plus narrowing the width of the stair (assuming that the code requires a 3' width or so.) If reducing the width isn't a problem, then narrow the width for the entire run of the stair with a barrier up to handrail height to eliminate the trip hazard.
Dante
Here is a couple of immediate reactions:
1) Lose the peninsula that makes the exit from the stairs narrower. You want as little blockage of the stairs as at all possible - your wife and/or you will be hauling laundry up and down those stairs - you do not want it narrow and awkward to get off onto or off the stairs. a narrow section with one track through the stairs.
2) Do not try to make duck into pit under the stairs.There is not much headroom under the lowest part of the stairs. Likewise, do not make a deep benchwork under the stairs. Look at what Paulus drew - make the opening under the stairs a "fjord" opening towards the main operating pit:
No duckunder, no small pit with limited headroom, no deep benchwork. Narrow (and removable) benchwork over the sump pump in lower left hand corner.
Smile,Stein
Okay, after the ideas were posted, I spent the better part of today working on another layout. This one, the line goes through the stairs, since I looked into it after a suggestion, and this is what I came up with. There maybe some tweaking left to do, but gives you an idea. Thanks again, and let me know what you think
http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab93/bbrailways/new1.jpg
Well that proves the staircase is not concrete. I do believe you could pop a porthole through there with some caution to the human traffic.
Clarity has been achieved...
...in my head anyway.
Cheers...
Chris from down under...
We're all here because we're not all there...