Having problems designing my railroad

[jguess733]

I'm having a few probloms. I'm trying to design my second railroad. My first one was a very valliant attempt, but that 4x8 with an oval and a couple of sidings and some industries got old. My problem is this. I can always seem to pack more onto paper than I ever could on the layout. I've got the basic track plan in my head, and I know what industries I want to serve and which structures I want to use doing it. I'm only using a singal pencil line on paper and i think that is part of my problem. Does anyone have any pointers, or suggestions on how they went about designing their railroad? Thanks for the help.

[Big_Boy_4005]

HO right? Make a scale drawing, a really nice scale to use is 1-1/2" to the foot. It sounds odd, but it is very handy, because 1/8" equals 1". A normal ruler will be very accurate. You will need to put a small extension on a regular sheet of paper, or use legal if you have it to fit the 4' x 8'. 6" x 12" is your table.

Always leave 2" between tracks. You will need a compass for the curves. Turnouts are numbered 4,6, 8 etc. You will be using 4's and maybe 6's. The number is the ratio at which the tracks diverge. A 4 means that the diverging leg moves away from the straight leg 1 unit for every 4 units of run down the straight leg.

Just remember, too sharp a pencil makes it harder to build.

[Anonymous]

Might I suggest the Right Track software from atlasrr.com. Granted it has a limited supply of products, but it should help.
Reed

[ndbprr]

We all do that. I can draw a four track mainline and a sixteen track yard and fit it all in a 2' x2' area on paper. Another alternative is a track template available at hobby shops that allows you to draw things pretty much in perspective. There can still be a tendency to make turnouts shroter than real life however. another idea is to use brown paper and draw it full scale so you are sure everything will fit.

[Anonymous]

I use my AutoCAD system which gives me highly precise drawings, but the drawback is that it seems I can never stop designing.

Without it , I'd do pencil sketches like everyone does & then make a full-scale mockup with some large sheets or roll of kraft paper and a ball of twine. Trace or draw exactly the turnouts & crossings I need, photocopy a bunch of them, cut them out & start "laying track." Use the twine to represent the rails or simply the centerline of the track and place the turnouts where needed.

You can mock-up scenery & buildings with cardboard & crumpled newspaper to help visualize the layout in 3D.

Keep some cars handy, especially a few of your longest to make sure they clear buildings & other scenery. Placing some on your sidings or yard tracks will let you see immediately if there is enough track or too little. This is often hard to determine on paper when it's not clear where a car will be clear of a turnout.

Now, if I could just turn off the darn computer and start building.

Wayne

[Anonymous]

I'm presently working on a movable shelf style switching layout. Its 8 feet by 14 inches cut in half to make two 4 feet sections. When drawing out the plan for this i initally just sketched some ideas on graph paper. Once i had a rough idea i drew a scaled grid on the computer and then printed it out so i could use that. It was probably not the easiest or simplest way of doing it but it meant i had blank white paper that was easy to draw on with a lead pencil. I had the foot lines as solid black with lighter lines every 6 inches and finally dotted lines marking every inch. It was easy to draw it up as a table in MS Word. Once done you can print out as many copies as you want, and rubbing out the lead lines doesnt rub out the printed lines. You can choose to scale it any size you like so you can easily use the templates ndbprr mentioned.

So anyway, once i had decided on a particular design i transferred it to large pieces of card in full 1:1 scale. I think most people you talk to would recommend that you do this. I certainly helped me refine my plan. You can use spare/scrap/unused pieces of flex track to check track spacing and check clearances for cars. In my experience this is probably the single greatest benefit of doing a full scale drawing. Another thing i did was spread out the full size plan on the kitchen bench (or a part of it at a time for a large plan) and then you get a rough idea of what it will look like when built. You can see how far you have to reach and what the track spacings look like and flow of the track and how buildings will fit in etc. Once finished with that i then used the full scale drawing as a template for cutting out the roadbed and also as a guide for building turnouts (since i built my own).

My last tip is that for both plans, whether its the scaled down version or the full scale mock up make sure you have a template that is an accurate representation of the footprints of the buildings you plan to use. This is especially important for buildings that are close to the tracks or where a track runs into a building. It was critical for me because on my plan i have one of the Walthers backdrop buildings with a track running into it. Using the template ensured that i laid the track the correct distance away from the backdrop to fit the building in where it was meant to go with the rail track going straight into the door just like it was supposed to with perfect clearances. Doing it during the planning stage saves much time and frustration later when you realise you buildings are bigger than you thought they were.

Thats pretty much all i have to offer so good luck with it no matter which method eventually works for you.

[Anonymous]

In Track Planning for Realistin Operation, there are GREAT advices on drawing a track plan from start to finish without putting in too much for your space as you are doing.

[trollw]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Muddy Creek

I use my AutoCAD system which gives me highly precise drawings, but the drawback is that it seems I can never stop designing.

I agree. I have CADRAIL and it seems that there is always one more "Hmmmm, if I move this turnout down just a little maybe I can get another industry in." But, by the same token, i would not trade the fact that "if it fits on my drawing, it will fit when I build it".

Whether it is Atlas Right Track, 3rd PlanIt, CADRAIL, or a general purpose CAD tool, I would highly recommend getting one, LEARNING to use it, and USING it.

John

[jguess733]

Those different programs that troll suggested, which one is the easiest and/or cheapest to use?

[Anonymous]

The Atlas program is free to download & not too hard to learn.
http://www.atlasrr.com/
The other RR programs I have no experience with. I've been using CAD systems, particualrly AutoCAD since the early days and know there are huge learning curves. (Still learning after more that 20 years.)

Wayne

[IRONROOSTER]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Neerie

In Track Planning for Realistin Operation, there are GREAT advices on drawing a track plan from start to finish without putting in too much for your space as you are doing.

I second this opinion. This is the single best resource for anyone planning a layout.
Enjoy
Paul

[rexhea]

I am a "Newbie", but I began designing my layout last September using 3d Planit software and have had great success. I have forgotten the price, but it's not that expensive and it is well worth it. Like ACAD it is very accurate, but its easy to learn. Being new, I am always making changes and I can do this very easily with this software.

[StillGrande]

I agree with rexhea. I picked up 3rd Planit in March and was able to draw a nice layout in no time. I have to recommend going through the tutorials and manual, though I rarely look at it now. You can draw a nice layout fairly quickly, and can even add building and operate it to test switching problems and industry services.

I started my current plans with freehand drawing, having learned the hard way my eyes were bigger than my layout in the past. Then got an HO template and went to work. Picked up 3rd Planit at a show and transfered my drawing to that. Have since gone from a single level to 2 levels with better utilization of the space (I have a 25'x36' area to work with). I have begun to notice I am drawing some of the elements again and again, so I know I like them. The best part is the quick changes.

I know I don't use everything in the program, but I can use the basics to draw a respectable railroad in a couple of hours now.

You can also print out the plan 1:1 and see how it would look full sized (everything looks different on the computer screen).

I tried to get the Atlas download, but couldn't get it to work. The added security in knowing the elements fit is worth the price of the CAD.

[Anonymous]

i left 2.5'' between my tracks, you dont really need to leave this much room but in my opinion it looks great, especially when running long cars

[BRJN]

If you are building another 4x8 on a board, you can test out the track plan in 1:1 scale. Buy and place (but do not permanently tack down) the track. A Walthers catalog will have many of the building sizes listed as part of the item entry. You can measure and cut a sheet of paper for the footprint. Then see where (or if) it will fit. Fiddle with things as needed. I'm going to do this with my 2x6 layout.

Of course, if you are building a big layout, or kitbash buildings, this won't help much.

[WimKuypers]

Using a computer program is great for the beginning RR-modeler. I use Wintrack, a German one. And why ? Well, I had to get used to the effect of limited space, apply "compression"ideas, and do a lot of trials. They cost no money, and trials on the actual layout cost much more time and often money.

Regards,
wim kuypers, netherlands

[bluepuma]

I used Atlas RTS for my N scale small bedroom layout after messing around with a running board with trial Atlas N loops, later Kato loops on a 31x48 inch. I discovered NO curves less than 11" rad, no SD70 seems it needs bigger. Been using RTS for my idea doodles, and what was wrong about them.. I'm glad that I did not commit the first plans to plywood. My most recent design is liveable, finally.

[RedLeader]

I strongly recomend ATLAS RTS. Is easy to use and free! Its data base include atlas products (code 100 and 83 for HO), walthers structures in HO, N and O. It includes all the track accesories that a begginer would use (no curved trunouts or double slips). I'm a fluent ACad user and if you are not familiar with the software, don't even think about it. Besides AutoCAD is extramely expensive even the "light" version.

Other "MR" Cads like 3d planit and so, are good if you have a big project in mind. Small layouts don't justify the use of such programs. Try RTS from Atlas and you'll know what I'm talking about.

[RedLeader]

... as an architect, I know how "magical" paper and pencil could be. Don't be fooled by its "magic", and seduced by the idea that you could draw anything. Once you start construction, reality slaps your face.

[cuyama]

It is tough to have the discipline to avoid drawing in more than will fit. CAD programs help a lot, but the learning curve is very steep and if your needs are to design one small-to-medium sized layout, CAD programs may not be worth it. A lot depends on how much you like messing around with the computer -- the more fun that is for you, the more tolerance you are likely to have for the learning curve of CAD.

A set of turnout and curve radius templates are a really good way to keep yourself from going overboard if you are using paper and pencil. These are available commercially or for HO by copying the appropriate pages out of the walthers catalog. One can also make "Xerox" copies of a few samples of the actual turnouts, reduce these to the drawing scale, and use the resulting templates to avoid packing too much in. Be sure that you don't inadvertainly cheat on having things meet squarely.

I've owned or spent time with the demoes of several CAD programs and posted some thoughts on my website at:
http://www.modelrail.us/id14.html

Good luck!

Regards,

Byron

QUOTE: Originally posted by jguess733

I can always seem to pack more onto paper than I ever could on the layout. I've got the basic track plan in my head, and I know what industries I want to serve and which structures I want to use doing it. I'm only using a singal pencil line on paper and i think that is part of my problem.

[Anonymous]

A lot of posters on this thread seem to have the dilemma of wanting to use a CAD program but battling with its complexity and steep learining curve. I had the same problem and after trying a (freeware) CAD program or two I also just gave up in frustration.

Then I discovered a neat trick. Microsoft Word and Excel have a drawing toolbar. With this toolbar you can turn Word or Excel into a CAD program that admittedly is very limited but has proved sufficient for my requirements. I have done some incredible drawings in Word.

The drawing toolbar allows you to draw circles, arcs, lines, rectangles, triangles, random shapes, etc. and set them to an exact scale length. 3d, wire-frame and rotation of objects are also possible. Colors, shading and textures can be added. Simple objects can be grouped into more complex objects. These can be cut and pasted so you design once then just clone it everywhere.

Like everything, there is a learning curve and you will have to do a lot of experimenting and trial-and-error, but it is so easy that it is actually fun. The best way to learn is to load the drawing toolbar and then try every single item on it and go through all the settings and options. Soon you will be producing great looking drawings that are accurately dimensioned and scaled. I have my entire railroad designed in Word - track plan, benchwork, scenery, wiring, etc. and it is accurate enough to physically build from.

[jwar]

Lots ao great ideas abpve. Me I just use the largest graph paper I can find. A decent compass set and leave a few extra inches to spare. Usualy come out great but then what happens in my small world, I find that after roughting in the track i usualy come up with better and eye catching ideas keepin within my original goals. O well my two cents...

Most importent .... stick with it and it will happen...go with what is easy for you...take care and enjoy..