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Using Micro Screws Instead of Track Nails

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Using Micro Screws Instead of Track Nails
Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, August 6, 2011 7:58 AM

Has anyone used micro screws instead of track nails to secure track to wood surfaces?

The advantage, as I see it, is the ability to secure track without the risk of nailing the track too deep and pulling it out of gauge.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by slammin on Saturday, August 6, 2011 8:09 AM

As expensive as small screws are, I wouldn't. I use small screws to hold my Caboose ground throws. McMaster Carr has the best prices on most hardware, but tiny sheet metal or wood screws are still costly. Many modelers are using clear latex caulk. I tried it on my current layout and think its the way to go.

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Posted by faraway on Saturday, August 6, 2011 8:51 AM

Long time ago small screws have been available in most LHS here in Germany.

I did use them on one of my German layouts but they had no real advantage. It toke longer to lay the track, was more expensive and is was a pain to dismantle the track with all the glue from ballasting in the head of the screw.

I am using small nails to fix the track but it is actually the ballast that holds the track in place later. I do often pull the nails later when ballasting has completed.

Reinhard

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, August 6, 2011 10:51 AM

TA462

 slammin:

 Many modelers are using clear latex caulk.

The only problem with using caulk or any type of glue is that once it's down it's down for good.  If you need to adjust, fix or tweak a section of track your in for a bigger job then if it was just nailed down to start with.  This is what I do and I'm sure someone will disagree but when I lay track I like to glue down the cork and nail down the track.  Run it for a few months and decide if I'm happy with it or if I need to improve it.  If it's good to go then I will start with the scenery around it and then ballast it last.  Basically your gluing it down last instead of first.  Beer

TA,

Do you remove the nails after ballasting or just leave them in place?

Rich

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Posted by IRONROOSTER on Saturday, August 6, 2011 12:23 PM

I use track nails, but I drill the holes first using a bit slightly smaller than the nail.  Using a nail set and hobby hammer, I lightly tap the nail into place. 

The black thin head is almost invisible since the ties on my flex track are so dark.

Enjoy

Paul

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Posted by doctorwayne on Saturday, August 6, 2011 11:12 PM

I can see no advantages to screws in this application, Rich.  It's also possible to drive a screw too far.  Smile, Wink & Grin   I use track nails (Atlas, I think) but install them using pliers rather than a hammer.  Even if they accidentally get pushed in too far, I simply re-grasp them and pull them out.  I can't recall ever pushing them in far enough to affect track gauge.  I leave the nails in place after ballasting, as the empty holes would probably be as noticeable as the nail heads. Laugh

 

Wayne

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, August 7, 2011 5:46 AM

doctorwayne

I can see no advantages to screws in this application, Rich.  It's also possible to drive a screw too far.  Smile, Wink & Grin   I use track nails (Atlas, I think) but install them using pliers rather than a hammer.  Even if they accidentally get pushed in too far, I simply re-grasp them and pull them out.  I can't recall ever pushing them in far enough to affect track gauge.  I leave the nails in place after ballasting, as the empty holes would probably be as noticeable as the nail heads. Laugh

Wayne

Well, that does it.  If Wayne is using nails, then I am using nails.  Bow   LOL

Seriously, though, I use nails now and I have never driven them so far as to pull the track rails out of gauge.  However I have broken ties by striking the nails too hard and deep.

I had thought about using a pin vise to pre-drill pilot holes and then use micro screws for better depth control.  But, I think you all have convinced me to stick with nails as a better alternative to micro screws.

Rich

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Posted by Geared Steam on Sunday, August 7, 2011 12:40 PM

I used nails and push pins with white glue, once the glue was dry I removed the push pin and nails, the nails will show up in pictures. If I need to make any adjustments  (and I have, misting the track softens the glue so it can be moved, caulk works the same way (unless you used Liquid Nails)  Joe Fugate uses caulk, it is not permanent. 

Lance Mindheim offers a great tutorial on how he approaches it, it may be worth a read.

http://www.lancemindheim.com/track_laying.htm

"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein

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Posted by papasmurf on Sunday, August 7, 2011 1:12 PM

Maybe you could reserve use of screws only to any really troublesome section of  your trackage, which might develop in the future and nails won't correct the problem. My 2 cents..... papasmurf

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Posted by wp8thsub on Sunday, August 7, 2011 6:02 PM

TA462

The only problem with using caulk or any type of glue is that once it's down it's down for good.  If you need to adjust, fix or tweak a section of track your in for a bigger job then if it was just nailed down to start with. 

I use acrylic/latex sealant for track adhesive.  Track is easy to remove and re-position; just slide a putty knife under the ties and change as needed.  Caulk that's intended as a permanent adhesive is another story, and definitely hampers attempts at rearranging track.

Rob Spangler

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Posted by Motley on Tuesday, August 9, 2011 7:51 AM

Rich,

For your new layout plan, why don't you want to use foam? It works great. Just secure the roadbed and track with cheap acrylic caulk (grey). Cork roadbed is my preference.

I use 3" drywall screws on the outside of the rails on curves, to keep the track down, while I solder the joints also.

Michael


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Posted by woodone on Tuesday, August 9, 2011 9:30 AM

WOW!  A 3 inch screw??  That is a very long screw.  Most roadbed material is not thick enough to hold a 3 inch screw. You working on a foam base roadbed ?

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Posted by Motley on Tuesday, August 9, 2011 10:16 AM

LOL, oops sorry, I meant I use a 2" screws. Just temporary until the caulk dries. I don't screw them down tight, just enough to hold the rails in place.I have a 2" foam base, and cork roadbed.

Here's photo of what it looks like....

Michael


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Posted by Motley on Tuesday, August 9, 2011 7:41 PM

I use Walthers Shinorha Code 83 flextrack, and find that even only soldering a single joint, I have a hard time bending it. It doesn't matter if it's the inside or the outside rails, I've tried both ways.

Maybe it acts different than Atlas flex?

That's why I solder all joints, after the track is in place. It works for me anyways.

Michael


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Posted by hcc25rl on Tuesday, August 9, 2011 8:47 PM

Sir,  May I offer you a small piece of advice? Thank You? Save the screws for another project; Take the hammer and hit yourself on the head about three or four times, Observe what happens next. You will WANT to use either track nails or caulk to secure your track to your roadbed. Now, you will be pleased with the results, I am sure.

Jimmy

Jimmy

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Posted by hcc25rl on Tuesday, August 9, 2011 8:49 PM

ROUTE ROCK!

Jimmy

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Posted by hcc25rl on Tuesday, August 9, 2011 8:52 PM

Gracias a Wolfie y Stein Jr. , Tambien

Jimmy

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Posted by IRONROOSTER on Wednesday, August 10, 2011 6:49 AM

Motley

I use Walthers Shinorha Code 83 flextrack, and find that even only soldering a single joint, I have a hard time bending it. It doesn't matter if it's the inside or the outside rails, I've tried both ways.

Maybe it acts different than Atlas flex?

That's why I solder all joints, after the track is in place. It works for me anyways.

For soldered joints I cut the rail joiner in half.  That reduces the stiff straight portion at the joint and makes bending easier.  For really tight curves a third or a fourth of the joiner might be needed.

Enjoy

Paul

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, August 14, 2011 8:01 AM

Motley

I use Walthers Shinorha Code 83 flextrack, and find that even only soldering a single joint, I have a hard time bending it. It doesn't matter if it's the inside or the outside rails, I've tried both ways.

Michael,

Stop using Shinorha Code 83 flextrack and switch to Shinohara Code 83 flextrack. 

That Shinorha stuff is an illegally produced clone.  Laugh

Rich 

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Posted by doctorwayne on Sunday, August 14, 2011 10:38 AM

Rich is right:  nowadays, knock-offs are everywhere.  Caveat emptor!

 

Wayne

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Posted by Sailormatlac on Sunday, August 14, 2011 9:34 PM

doctorwayne

I can see no advantages to screws in this application, Rich.  It's also possible to drive a screw too far.  Smile, Wink & Grin   I use track nails (Atlas, I think) but install them using pliers rather than a hammer.  Even if they accidentally get pushed in too far, I simply re-grasp them and pull them out.  I can't recall ever pushing them in far enough to affect track gauge.  I leave the nails in place after ballasting, as the empty holes would probably be as noticeable as the nail heads. Laugh

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b399/doctorwayne/some%20layout%20views/CameraTwopix024.jpg

 

Wayne

@Wayne... Can't hardly see them...

I second TA and Doctorwayne. Nails are more versatile and gives you the opportunity to modify the layed track after. My tool of choice: a long-nose plier... Also, using nail makes laying turnouts easier and you can recuperate them without risk after. Easier to clean ballast than caulk (I know want I mean!).

Years ago, when I first heard about caulk, I took a tube of construction glue (the beige stuff used to glue styrofoam to anything - PL300) and glued some track!!! Ahaha! You can't imagine the joy I had when I pulled out the track a year after! Live and learn! Shinohara Code 83 turnouts barely survived this experiment and went directly to the junk box... were they belong.

Matt

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, August 15, 2011 6:29 AM

doctorwayne

Rich is right:  nowadays, knock-offs are everywhere.  Caveat emptor!

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b399/doctorwayne/GERN%20INDUSTRIES/FauxFlux72.jpg

 

Wayne

Wayne, that is too funny.  Is that for real?

Rich

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Posted by Geared Steam on Monday, August 15, 2011 5:52 PM

 

Sailormatlac
Years ago, when I first heard about caulk, I took a tube of construction glue (the beige stuff used to glue styrofoam to anything - PL300) and glued some track!!! Ahaha! You can't imagine the joy I had when I pulled out the track a year after! Live and learn!

It's because you used the wrong caulk, which has been mentioned several times over. You chose to use a permanent construction adhesive

LOCTITE® PL® 300 VOC FOAMBOARD ADHESIVE

Recommended For

 

  • Bonding to all types of surfaces: wood, fiberglass panels, concrete, brick and drywall; it permanently joins foamboard to the substrate without compromising the insulation value of the foam

 

When you should have used

 

DAP® KWIK SEAL PLUS®

 

Specially formulated siliconized latex provides maximum adhesion and flexibility for a watertight seal. Paintable. Easy water clean-up. Low odor. Backed by a Crack-Proof Guarantee.

A bad choice leads to a bad experience which leads to bad advice. 

This has been well documented through this forum and others.

http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/p/155477/1715214.aspx

Anything that would bond concrete and bricks together should have tipped you off Smile, Wink & Grin

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Posted by doctorwayne on Monday, August 15, 2011 7:52 PM

richhotrain

 

 doctorwayne:

 

Rich is right:  nowadays, knock-offs are everywhere.  Caveat emptor!

 

Wayne

 

Wayne, that is too funny.  Is that for real?

Rich

 

 

Well, sorta.  There's a thread on it HERE with more info and photos.  There are also several other threads in the same Forum on the same general topic, as there are currently over three dozen people modelling GERN in some form or another.

GERN brand flux is an imaginary product dreamt-up by my brother over fifty years ago.  When I got around to building my current layout, I knew that I needed to include a GERN complex.  Here's a view of part of it:

 

The "flux" is not so much like that used in soldering or metal refining, but more along that referred to in the expression "in a state of flux".  It's a product with a multitude of variants and uses, as shown by the sampling of ads, below:

An early billboard:

 

Something from a magazine:

 

And some more info on another product:

 

I use GERN (always all caps) as a traffic generator, as my operation has three separate loading tracks and handles boxcars, covered hoppers, and tankcars.  Many modellers have cars lettered for GERN, but you could just as easily ship and receive using any suitable cars from any railroad.  And, if you're stuck for space, you can simply have a GERN car or two in transit, although there are some plants not much bigger than a 'phone booth which handle many carloads per day.  Budding CEOs can name their operation (mine is the Gibson Works, named for the original flux magnate and all-'round bon vivant Charles (Cookie) Gibson, and, if they wish, develop new products, keeping, of course, in the same tongue-in-cheek vein. Smile, Wink & Grin  While the products are fanciful, the modelling of the operation can be done in a prototypical manner, so it can fit into just about any layout and in any era (that ad with the airliner and the late-'40s/early-'50s Studebaker is from a magazine popular in my late '30s modelling era, so you know this stuff is really versatile). Laugh  As their slogan says: "If It's GERN, It's Good!".

 

Wayne

 

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, August 16, 2011 6:00 AM

Wayne, that is awesome !

Rich

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Posted by bill arseneau on Monday, November 7, 2016 10:50 AM
Yes,I have! I used #2 screws and #2 brass washers to fasten all of the track in my 36 " tall helix in N scale and have no problems at all. However, track outside of the helix in staging used Atlas track nails. ALL other track is laid with caulk as is the norn.
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Posted by doctorwayne on Monday, November 7, 2016 2:20 PM

Thanks for reviving this old thread, which allowed me to replace the missing photo and update the link to the other site. Smile, Wink & Grin

Wayne

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Posted by Geared Steam on Monday, November 7, 2016 6:46 PM

and to laugh again at the jokes :)

"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein

http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/

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