Hi,
I'm starting to work out ideas in my head (scary, huh?) about finalizing my scenery. One part I'm working through is asphalt. They'll be a few road sections and two large (4x5') parking lots on the layout.
I was thinking, those 2 larger parking lot areas are going to be a &$@*#! to get level. But if people can pour a water feature, why can't I pour asphalt?
Start by building "dams" out of thin strips of basswood. Then pour it with a dark grey latex paint, that's slightly thickened with mystery ingredient X - thick yet thin enough to flow & level itself out. Or maybe a thinned down & tinted version of the various sculpting "plasters" people use for mountains, rock molds, etc.
Thoughts? Would you try that, or something similar on the same basic idea? If so, what would you use?
Thanks,
-Ed
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." -Aristotle
this was done with drywall mud
http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/media/p/2108758.aspx
Personally I'd go with water putty. You can vary the mix to make it quite runny if that's what you feel the need to do. I have used it quite runny on occasions, but not as thin as you're talking of. It's good stuff though, and I think it would work.
I prefer it a bit stiffer. It's easy to level with scrapers and you can even sand it.
I've also found the mix stiffens up if you add acrylic paint to it [not what you're wanting, I know]
Mike
Modelling the UK in 00, and New England - MEC, B&M, D&H and Guilford - in H0
jpmorrison this was done with drywall mud http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/media/p/2108758.aspx
A trucking terminal parking lot is one of the ideas that I have. I thought about using drywall mud, but I wasn't sure about it cracking later. Having hung drywall in a previous life, I know that it'll crack when you put it on/down too thick. I wondered if it'll crack if you thin it out alot.
Cracking can be good, if they're tiny cracks that are in proportion to the scale. But cracks that look like Godzilla just stomped on your layout aren't going to look very realistic.
mikelhh Personally I'd go with water putty. You can vary the mix to make it quite runny if that's what you feel the need to do. I have used it quite runny on occasions, but not as thin as you're talking of. It's good stuff though, and I think it would work. I prefer it a bit stiffer. It's easy to level with scrapers and you can even sand it. I've also found the mix stiffens up if you add acrylic paint to it [not what you're wanting, I know] Mike
Hi Mike,
Water putty was also on my list of possibilities.
It's funny that you mentioned sanding. As I mentioned in a reply above, I did drywall work many years ago and so I've done enough sanding in my life, lol, which is one major reason why I wanted something that'll flow out flat on it's own.
Thanks for the tip about paint stiffening it up. I'll probably use dry powder to tint it, if I use the water putty.
I did a rather large paved parking lot on my previous layout with a fairly thin mix of Hydrocal, poured into a stripwood frame, on top of a Homasote base. It leveled nicely, never cracked. I might have a pic or two to scan, will take a look.
swoodnj I did a rather large paved parking lot on my previous layout with a fairly thin mix of Hydrocal, poured into a stripwood frame, on top of a Homasote base. It leveled nicely, never cracked. I might have a pic or two to scan, will take a look.
Awesome. Did you tint it or paint it after?
I'm thinking I'l tint mine, just in case the outer surface ever gets damaged.
Some of the most impressive work I've seen done w/ modeling roads was done using Durham's Water Putty. The work was/ is done by Bob Grech. Many may have seen his work from the old layout or occasionally will post pics on WPF of the new ongoing one
I have used dyed Hydrocal and Unical for my roads. It's a medium that I'm comfortable with and have worked w/ plasters for many years (for it's "real" intended purpose. I have used water putty in the past with the same results. You do have a greater working time w/ the water putty. This is not all my work, other club members use the same methods as well. Powdered masonry dyes mixed to dry plaster will give a close color to the final dried/ cured product.
Most road surfaces are done w/ plaster, however, some bridges sidewalks etc are sheet styrene.
This is a first pour of plaster- no weathering
Some finished or close to roads
.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
Ed - Did Jerry Garcia tell you what percentage of the population would be considered "Mentally Ill" ? I would be interested to know what figure of 77% we're talking about?
Thanks, Jimmy
Jimmy
ROUTE ROCK!
P.S. Very Instructive.
I'm one of the 23% who are "Doing OK", are you?
Ed,
First of all, a 4' x 5' parking lot? Yikes, that is one giant space to devote to a parking lot. But, whatever.
You should consider self-leveling acrylic which can be found in on-line art supply stores. It dries clear and transparent, but you can tint it any color you want before pouring it. It could be ideal for your project.
Rich
Alton Junction
My vote is for drywall joint compound. That's what I use. I buy it premixed in a bucket. I use it for scenery as well. When making roads and parking lots, if you keep it thin and pour a second layer if necessary, it shouldn't crack. I use an angled spatula to smooth it. That's the kind of thing that's used to put icing on a cake. Or, looks like a mason's trowel, but they're too big. The ones for cakes are nice and small. No need to sand unless you get a really rough finish. Once the compound hardens, go over it with a damp sponge. It will smooth out nicely.
..... Bob
Beam me up, Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here. (Captain Kirk)
I reject your reality and substitute my own. (Adam Savage)
Resistance is not futile--it is voltage divided by current.
I also use Durhams Water Putty. It isn't going to be truly self-leveling, but it's easy enough to work and get flat. While it's setting, I keep smoothing it with a wet 1-inch foam brush, another modeling tip courtesy of Bob Grech. For asphalt roads, it's thick enough that you can build up the center a bit to form a crown and taper the edges down. I use it straight from the can, which produces a light tan surface, and then use a water-wash of gray acrylic craft paint to color it.
The surface is very hard, and resists chipping. That's a big advantage over softer material like plasters, particularly if you don't pre-mix in the color.
Durhams Water Putty is a hardware store product. Our local True Value store has it.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Have any of you ever tried that floor leveler that they suggest before putting down a ceramic floor. You would use it with a frame or some damning.
I know it self levels but I am uncertain of what the dry finish is like.
This was just a thought as I contemplated parking lots etc.
Johnboy out..................
from Saskatchewan, in the Great White North..
We have met the enemy, and he is us............ (Pogo)
last mountain & eastern hogger Have any of you ever tried that floor leveler that they suggest before putting down a ceramic floor. You would use it with a frame or some damning. I know it self levels but I am uncertain of what the dry finish is like. This was just a thought as I contemplated parking lots etc. Johnboy out..................
Many of the flooring "levelers" will have a bit too much grit (silica sand) to use for an acceptable road finish. You would get that same results from tile grout. The fine powery types Levelbest, etc do not like to be applied too thick w/o cracking. There are comercial and very $$$ products that I'll use for leveling and repairing spalling concrete, but I don't believe the bond to wood of foam would last.
Put me down for the drywall mud option. I used it because I had it and like you, I've worked with it enough before. I haven't tried as large of an area as you though.
Here's the rural highway I did earlier this year. I taped off the edges with a few layers of masking tape and ran the mud up to it. When dry I sanded the edges a little more than the middle to get a little bit of a crown and soften the transition to the shoulder. Then I painted with a diluted gray mix and weathered with chalk.
I guess I should have answered the original question too huh? I think you'd have a hard time getting a smoother, flatter surface with the pour method you're toying with. Having the mystery ingredient flow enough would be more work with the molds and dams you'd have to build than sanding drywall or water putty. Just my uneducated opinion!
I've always beena big fan of Woodland Scenic's Road System. The paving tape will give you a bit more felxability than stripwood. I've used it successfully ofr both roads and parking lots. I have however figured out that their "Smooth It" plaster is really Plaster of Paris.
Modeling the Pennsylvania Railroad in N Scale.
www.prr-nscale.blogspot.com
For pouring roads I found rope caulk does a good job for shaping them and keeping the poured material where you want it. This caulk is cheap and readily available.
Happy Railroading
Bob
Don't Ever Give Up
EDZ swoodnj: I did a rather large paved parking lot on my previous layout with a fairly thin mix of Hydrocal, poured into a stripwood frame, on top of a Homasote base. It leveled nicely, never cracked. I might have a pic or two to scan, will take a look. Awesome. Did you tint it or paint it after? I'm thinking I'l tint mine, just in case the outer surface ever gets damaged. Thanks, -Ed
swoodnj: I did a rather large paved parking lot on my previous layout with a fairly thin mix of Hydrocal, poured into a stripwood frame, on top of a Homasote base. It leveled nicely, never cracked. I might have a pic or two to scan, will take a look.
Sorry for the delay in responding. I tinted it a dark gray, then painted it afterwards. The tinting was used for two reasons, 1) Hide damaged areas, and (2) After painting I sanded the surface very lightly in areas, revealing the lighter color underneath the paint. Made for some nice variations in color.
Hi Everyone,
Thank you for your opinions & helpful ideas. And thanks, also, for posting the pictures. The work being done by you guys is really impressive. I'm not sure I'll ever live up to that level of modelling, but it gives me something to shoot for.
Rich, the parking area is large, but it's that size to model (within reason) something from my life. Actually, the activity taking place at each siding will serve as a symbol of something meaningful from my life. It sounds kind of silly, I know, but my interest in trains stems from the recent death of my Dad. He always wanted a nice layout, as did I, but life seemed to get in the way and it never happened for him. He would have loved this one.
Anyway...
It seems that drywall mud is the more common suggestion, and that just figures because it was the one thing I wanted to avoid using, lol. My train room is a spare bedroom and I really wanted to avoid drywall mud sanding dust throughout the bedroom area. (Mud dust is nearly impossible to contain.)
I'm thinking that if I thin it out so much that it'll pour and level on its own, VS laying it down with knives, that it'll greatly reduce needing any surface touch-up work. I just need to keep the layers thin to avoid cracking & I'll probably prime the bare plywood to prevent the bare wood from sucking up the moisture in the mud.
I've hung more drywall then I care to remember, but I've never needed to thin mud out to this extreme. I'm wondering if that will affect its strength when it dries.
Hmmmmm
i used a very unconvetinal methed.
I went out side held my camera level pointed straight down at the road and snapped a picture. went inside uplaoded the pic to my computer and the cut and paste the picture into a road. next i found pictures of potholes and manhole covers and pasted thoose onto my road. the i printed it onto card stock. cut the road out and used aglue stick to attach it to my layout. hint: put the road down after you done the snery as senic glue will wreck the roa
Gabe, enginner, owner and matinece man of the Western Michigan Railroad
"Mess with the best, die like the rest" -U.S. Marine Corp
MINRail (Minessota Rail Transportaion Corp.) - "If they got rid of the weeds what would hold the rails down?"
And yes I am 17.
EDZ It seems that drywall mud is the more common suggestion, and that just figures because it was the one thing I wanted to avoid using, lol. My train room is a spare bedroom and I really wanted to avoid drywall mud sanding dust throughout the bedroom area. (Mud dust is nearly impossible to contain.) I'm thinking that if I thin it out so much that it'll pour and level on its own, VS laying it down with knives, that it'll greatly reduce needing any surface touch-up work. I just need to keep the layers thin to avoid cracking & I'll probably prime the bare plywood to prevent the bare wood from sucking up the moisture in the mud. I've hung more drywall then I care to remember, but I've never needed to thin mud out to this extreme. I'm wondering if that will affect its strength when it dries.
The thinner the better and less likely to crack. Drywall mud can be applied to a feather edge. I doubt if you can thin it enough (with water) so that it self-levels. Try the inexpensive plastic finishing tools (very flexible and effective at smoothing) and skip the sandpaper-use a wet sponge for the final finish.
Dante
You could probably just use styrene (house For Sale signs) and paint it dark gray with some dusty chalk for weathering. You don't really need to use drywall mud or plaster. The key is to weather it with chalks or other "weathering" powders. In the end it will look just as good without all of the mess.
I've built some nice roads using flexible wallbase, the rubbery stuff that's used in kitchens and bathrooms between floor tiles and the wall. I get it from Lowes at about $3 for a 4 foot length.
I'm doing N scale but the stuff comes in 4 inch widths so could also be used for HO. Cuts very easily too.
It forms a natural curve so when laid the road has a natural camber to it.
I stick black wet to dry sandpaper on (code 600) with Welder contact adhesive and when dry paint with a suitable acrylic paint (the cheap stuff from Walmart or Michaels.) I can then do road markings with Woodland Scenics dry transfer decals and weather with chalks.
Besides getting the road camber the stuff is very easy to carve lumps out of for potholes, cracks etc. I usually build shoulders using Sculptamold.
Very easy method to use without dust all over the place. No photos yet but I have a completed section of layout ready for posting soon.