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Lakes and Rivers

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  • Member since
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  • From: Martinez, CA
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Posted by markpierce on Wednesday, November 9, 2011 3:43 PM

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Posted by Grampys Trains on Tuesday, November 8, 2011 10:36 PM

I agree with you Harold, I used dark green camo paint to represent deeper water on Hammer Creek. DJ.

This shot of Roaring Creek shows the blue reflection of my backdrop.

Stoney Creek is also dark green in the middle, with light brown toward the shore.

And this shot of a small swamp at Blackwood Coal shows background reflection.

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  • From: Flushing,Michigan
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Posted by HaroldA on Tuesday, November 8, 2011 10:35 AM
What strikes me about many of the photos are the colors of the water. Some are deep, dark blue, while others look very muddy. I am also in the process of building two small lakes and a stream but haven't colored anything yet. Dave Frary suggests that the color should be black with earth colors feathered in the edges - which, to my eye, is too dark. As I have taken pictures, the surface of the water either reflects the sky resulting is the deep blue, or the water itself looks dark brown because of the tannin in it, or it looks muddy. I haven't seen much really black water and the pictures here bear that out for me.

There's never time to do it right, but always time to do it over.....

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  • From: New Mexico
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Posted by johncpo on Tuesday, November 8, 2011 9:12 AM

Great photos water effects,

For water in both my HO layout scenes and 1/35th armor dioramas I stumbled onto the "Minwax" brand wood sealer known as Polycrylic, sold in most paint and finish departmants of hardware, etc.

This product comes in a blue can with the above labeling and is about $15-20 for a quart and is worth the money. I poured it over colored sealing caulk as well as sand for great water effects. It dries clear after about 12-24hrs depending on the number of layers you pour it in. The deepening effect looks great when poured straight onto dirt or sand for a shallow river but could be done in more layers. It cleans up with water, which is great, mixes with acrylic craft paints (all I ever use) and goesover acylic caulk when dry. Another technique which I'm experimenting with is using all acrylic caulk, blended with earth tone colors and thinned with water to form a thinned paste that I brush onto all my scenery, as this dries I randomly sprinkle on the scenery material and if I want the wet look, i.e. puddles, etc. I pour on the wood sealer to make wet spots. This is great on snow and ice patches as well to add to the cold icy conditions in my WW2  Winter dioramas. 

Try this stuff, you might even use it on a wood project, hey that's what it was made for!

The best,

John 

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  • From: Canada, eh?
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Posted by doctorwayne on Friday, September 2, 2011 4:21 PM

CharlieM90

I like the effect.

Did the urethane alter the base coat color when you applied (lighten/darken)? Any yellowing effect in the urethane?

 

Thanks, Charlie.  I didn't notice any darkening of the paint  when the urethane was applied, although it's a milky white at first, then clears as it dries.  I haven't noticed any yellowing either, and the water has been in place for several years.  I have a friend that visits often, mainly to shoot photos of his brass locos, and we often set the camera either directly on the water or on blocks of scrap wood which are sitting atop the water (like floatin', eh? Smile, Wink & Grin )  No visible scratching of the surface and no damage to any of the raise Durabond "waves".

Here's a couple of views also taken from the river, but on the opposite side of the tracks from that of the photo above:

 

 

Wayne

 

 

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  • From: Olympia, WA
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Posted by gear-jammer on Friday, September 2, 2011 9:22 AM

This was a fun project that took a long time.

I started with a waterfall that drizzles into pond, which overflows across the tracks into the main pond.  This water overflows and runs down the stream.  I used ground goop and placed my rocks into the stream bed. 

When it dried poured Woodland Scenics Realistic Water, being careful to be only 1/8 "  deep.  I gave it a week to dry.  My last 2 bottles had a different formula that was dry the next day.  I used green/blue in the beginning for the pond, but discontinued that.  With the ground goop, there was enough color.

  When the pond overflowed, it started running down the stream bed over the rocks and eventually ran off the layout.  I then installed the fascia  which formed the lake at the bottom.  I did all the pours from the pond so it took a while to reach the bottom.

Sue

Anything is possible if you do not know what you are talking about.

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Posted by CharlieM90 on Friday, September 2, 2011 5:12 AM

doctorwayne

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b399/doctorwayne/some%20water%20scenes/Foe-toesfromfirstcd272.jpg

All "water" is Durabond 90 patching plaster on plywood.  It was worked with drywall knives to create ripples, waves, etc., then brush-painted with latex house paint.  "White water" effects were added with a small brush and Pollyscale paint, then the entire surface was given three coats of high gloss water-based clear urethane, applied with a brush.  The surface is very tough and has withstood several years-worth of cameras placed on it for pictures like the ones shown.

I like the effect.

Did the urethane alter the base coat color when you applied (lighten/darken)? Any yellowing effect in the urethane?

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Posted by doctorwayne on Thursday, September 1, 2011 8:36 PM

Thanks for your kind words, J_E_B.

The Durabond in the two rivers shown is probably 1/8" thick at most, while that in the Lake Erie scene is over 1" - the hardshell scenery there was quite a bit lower than track level and I hadn't originally planned for it to be a water scene.  The Durabond can be applied in just about any thickness without fear of cracking, although the base material needs to be strong - if it flexes or deforms under excess weight (such as if you leaned over the layout whilst supporting yourself on the "water") I'd guess that it would crack.   Durabond dries extremely hard and is very difficult to sand (there's a notation regarding this on the bag).  If you want a totally smooth surface, you may have skill enough to accomplish it with a drywall knife.  You could also make a very watery mix, and allow it to self-level.  I'd try a test run first, though - you want it to not only level, but to also set-up hard.  I do know that there's quite a bit of leeway in the Durabond/water ratios, but a test or two should point out the limits.

If you want a perfectly smooth water surface, you might have better results using an already-smooth surface such as Masonite, drywall, or paint-grade plywood.  Paint on your selection of "water" colours, then coat with the clear finish.  You could also use the same technique but finish with a pour of any of the commercially-available "water" products:  after all, much of the finished appearance is an illusion created with colour.

 

Wayne

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  • From: Manchester NH
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Posted by blubryexp on Thursday, September 1, 2011 7:53 PM

Did a search on rivers and saw your reply. Pictures look great. Want to use your method as I have foam on plywood, i.e.:

  1. Coat plywood with Durabond 90 (already have material).
  2. Apply latex paint(black/purple feathered to a green-to-sandy color at the edges).
  3. Coat with the gloss polyurethane(add water effects).

Question:

How thick a layer of Durabond was applied in your method.. Used a drywall knife on a test piece which resulted in a thin layer. Was thinking of applying 1/16" and sanding smooth.

 Note- Five years into my retirement hobby. Every task was/is a major information gathering effort.

Thanks in advance for your help.

J_E_B 

 

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Posted by doctorwayne on Monday, May 30, 2011 9:24 PM

johngriffey18ca1

...... I've removed the rocks and added an additional layer. I also added a drop off for a little water effects right under the bridge. 

 

That made a world of difference, John.  Nice work. Yes

 

Wayne

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Posted by johngriffey18ca1 on Monday, May 30, 2011 12:30 PM

Thanks for your help.  Now if I can ever get to your guys level I will be super pleased.

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  • From: Brisbane, Australia
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Posted by mikelhh on Monday, May 30, 2011 8:35 AM

Well done John. I like it!

 

mike

Modelling the UK in 00, and New England - MEC, B&M, D&H and Guilford - in H0

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  • From: Dearborn Station
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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, May 30, 2011 7:45 AM

John,

That looks terrific.  Nice job.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by johngriffey18ca1 on Monday, May 30, 2011 7:43 AM

This is what it looks like now that I've removed the rocks and added an additional layer. I also added a drop off for a little water effects right under the bridge. Photobucket

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Posted by CS_NG_Fan on Sunday, May 29, 2011 8:01 AM

Riverbed sceniced with sand, small talus and rock castings (all glued down with dilute matte medium).  India ink diluted with alcohol brused in and used to color sand in bottom of riverbed to make the illusion of depth and variation in depth. Water simulated with a single, 1/8 inclh layer of Envirotex. Ripples added with a small brush and some clear gloss medium. Eddies around rocks made with gloss medium paste, dry-brushed with white acrylic latex.

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  • From: Brisbane, Australia
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Posted by mikelhh on Sunday, May 29, 2011 2:41 AM

Wayne  - thank you very much for your kind comments!

I've been fortunate enough to have had three photos in MR over the past few years.

 

Mike

Modelling the UK in 00, and New England - MEC, B&M, D&H and Guilford - in H0

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Posted by doctorwayne on Saturday, May 28, 2011 10:20 PM

My thanks to both Mikec6201 and mikelhh for your kind comments. Big Smile

Mikelhh, not only does your water look great, but you've really nailed the colours, and I'm not referring to only those of the water.   The rock fill, the streamside mud, and the vegetation on the embankment is right on the money.  I swear as a kid I've waded in that stream in your fourth photo - the green shale in the silt on the bottom of the pool in the lower-mid foreground is very representative of streams around this area.  You've also done a superb job on blending the scenes into the backdrops.

As for your fifth photo, I'm still not sure that it's not real.  Your work is very reminiscent of some which I've seen in either MR or RMC, although the name of the author eludes me.  Have your photos been featured in either of those magazines?  If not, they should be - very nicely rendered scenes.  Bow

 

Wayne

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  • From: Brisbane, Australia
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Posted by mikelhh on Saturday, May 28, 2011 9:00 PM

Looks great, Wayne.

 

My water is two-part epoxy resin. I usually tint it if I want it to look deep. I spend a lot of time preparing the riverbed with sand, small rocks [glued down with PVA] and paint.  Ripples can be worked in with a skewer as the resin sets, or created by trailing small amounts of resin over the surface after it has dried.

This water was poured in three tinted layers - brown then green then blue-green

 

A view of the shallow river before the bridge is installed. Backscene is only temporary

 

Modelling the UK in 00, and New England - MEC, B&M, D&H and Guilford - in H0

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Posted by Mikec6201 on Saturday, May 28, 2011 4:54 PM

 Dr Wayne, you do some mighty fine work :) 

John Rocks will tend to gather in spots where the current is slower. You might try some smaller gravel along the river banks and make a shallow beach . Or another good idea would be a sandbar somewhere in the middle of the river. Using larger rocks like you did is still OK , but you want to think about where the water would be more shallow and where they would naturally come to rest. HTH.....Mike

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Posted by doctorwayne on Saturday, May 28, 2011 2:37 PM

Thanks for your very kind words, Galaxy. Smile   I based that particular river on the Grand River in southern Ontario, about 25 miles from here.  I happened to cross it yesterday, and it's in its usually springtime state of muddiness.  After the excess water has made its way to Lake Erie, it'll return to it's normal (in this area, anyway) placid state.

 

On my layout, I called it the Maitland River, another southern Ontario river, although that one runs into Lake Huron.  (The Grand River, on most areas of my layout, is actually represented by the aisle.) Smile, Wink & Grin 

I modelled the fictional Maitland to hopefully represent where it empties into Lake Erie, and when viewed at eye-level, I think that it looks reasonably believeable.  (Layout height here is only 34", with a second level yet to be built over this part of the layout.)  However, when viewed by standing visitors, they often ask what I have in mind for a backdrop.  Bang Head  I've considered adding a smudge of smoke (painted) on the "sky" to represent a passing laker, but am afraid it will begin to look tired pretty quickly.  I do have to admit, though, that when viewed from above, the illusion is pretty-much shot. Laugh

 

Wayne

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  • From: upstate NY
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Posted by galaxy on Saturday, May 28, 2011 12:28 PM

doctorwayne

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b399/doctorwayne/some%20water%20scenes/Foe-toesfromfirstcd279.jpg

 

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b399/doctorwayne/some%20water%20scenes/Foe-toesfromfirstcd284.jpg

 

...and the same scene as viewed from the air:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b399/doctorwayne/some%20water%20scenes/BarneySecordfliestheGrandValley--3.jpg

 

All "water" is Durabond 90 patching plaster on plywood.  It was worked with drywall knives to create ripples, waves, etc., then brush-painted with latex house paint.  "White water" effects were added with a small brush and Pollyscale paint, then the entire surface was given three coats of high gloss water-based clear urethane, applied with a brush.  The surface is very tough and has withstood several years-worth of cameras placed on it for pictures like the ones shown.

 

Wayne

Have to compliment you on your water ways Dr. Wayne!!

My Other Half {MOH}, looking over my shoulder, thought that these were real pics...well they ARE real pics...I mean pics of a real loco and that the water was real....until I revealed that it was fake water! and it was a model train!

The "muddy water" looks like our local river, the Susquehanna, which is supposed to mean "muddy waters" in Native American tongue.

If only all model water could look this way. Bow

-G .

Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.

 HO and N Scale.

After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.

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Posted by johngriffey18ca1 on Saturday, May 28, 2011 8:30 AM

I pulled the rocks, but it pulled up the paint and the water directly around it.  So I'm repainting the area where the rocks were  since it shows white underneath.  Then I'm going to apply a little puddle of realistic water to each area.  After that dries I'm going to apply another 1/8" layer of realistic water to hopefully make it look smooth on the surface again. 

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, May 28, 2011 4:30 AM

John,

I have to agree with Wayne on this one.  The water looks terrific, especially for a first time effort.  But, the rocks don't look realistic.  They appear too big and sporadically placed in the water.  You might try removing them and using similarly dimensioned rocks of less height.  But, overall, the scene looks great.  My compliments.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by doctorwayne on Friday, May 27, 2011 10:05 PM

I think that your water looks pretty good, John, but I'm not sold on the rocks.  Perhaps the addition of the water effects will make them look less incongruous.

I do give you full marks for your first attempt:  too many modellers procrastinate until they become too scared to even make an attempt.  And bear in mind that while it's nice to get compliments on your work, you are the one that needs most to be impressed with your efforts.

 

Wayne

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Posted by johngriffey18ca1 on Friday, May 27, 2011 8:08 PM

Well this is what I ended up doing today after some inspiration from you guys.  It's my first river so don't be too hard on me.  I still have to buy and apply some woodland scenics water effects around the rocks.

Photobucket

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Posted by Mikec6201 on Friday, May 27, 2011 6:01 PM

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Posted by jrbernier on Friday, May 27, 2011 10:33 AM

Here are some of what I have been working on...

 

 

Jim

Modeling BNSF  and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin

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Posted by twhite on Friday, May 27, 2011 10:07 AM

Though the trackage of the Yuba River Sub often follows the course of the aforenamed river, the river itself is modeled largely 'off-set'.  However, I do have one fairly large reservoir that the railroad crosses--Bullard's Bar, which is on the confluence of the Middle Fork and Oregon Creek. 

It's great for fishing, swimming and playing hookey from school.

Tom

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Posted by HHPATH56 on Friday, May 27, 2011 8:31 AM
I had an area deeper than 30", so built my saw mill pond on a pull-out drawer. This gives me access to the rear. For a rather large harbor I use a sheet of random pattern plastic that on uses in doors. I painted the back a uniform blue green like a n equal depth harbor. For cascading rivers, I prefer to use Magic Water and WS Water Effects. Bob Hahn

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