I am going to exercise my discretion and lock this thread. I think most of the responses have been somewhat contrarian, including my own, and now we are deviating from the topic. Is usually a sign that a thread's useful life has passed.
Crandell
[locked]
Colorado_Mac Broken Tie: ...I purchased a solenoid switch machine when they were in vogue, then used it as a pattern and used my Unimat jewelers lathe to construct my own from scrap metal and some purchased wire... ...Recently I purchased a slow motion switch machine and carefully disassembled it. Using scrap I had from other projects; my trusty old jewelers lathe and some wire; I was able to make my own switch machine for less than half the cost of the purchased item... If you had designed and built your own switch machines, I would be impressed. But taking someone else's hard work, sweat, and investment and copying it? That's simply stealing, in my opinion, and nothing to brag about.
Broken Tie: ...I purchased a solenoid switch machine when they were in vogue, then used it as a pattern and used my Unimat jewelers lathe to construct my own from scrap metal and some purchased wire... ...Recently I purchased a slow motion switch machine and carefully disassembled it. Using scrap I had from other projects; my trusty old jewelers lathe and some wire; I was able to make my own switch machine for less than half the cost of the purchased item...
...I purchased a solenoid switch machine when they were in vogue, then used it as a pattern and used my Unimat jewelers lathe to construct my own from scrap metal and some purchased wire...
...Recently I purchased a slow motion switch machine and carefully disassembled it. Using scrap I had from other projects; my trusty old jewelers lathe and some wire; I was able to make my own switch machine for less than half the cost of the purchased item...
If you had designed and built your own switch machines, I would be impressed. But taking someone else's hard work, sweat, and investment and copying it? That's simply stealing, in my opinion, and nothing to brag about.
In this day and time I would love to find someone, anyone that has had an original idea. Just one that without any other input came up with something. Man has always taken what he learns and improves upon it. Big business does it all the time. Every manufacturer in the world has at some time taken something made by its competitor to find out how they made it, to see if their product was better.
So what I'm saying is we live in a world of thieves. This company steals from that company, and so on and so no. If a cabinet maker sees a design he likes and he makes his own copy of it. Not because he want to steal it, but because he enjoys making cabinets and likes the way it looks. To me its not stealing its flattery.
Its a fine line between stealing a design and making a copy for yourself. If a man enjoys working with his hands he will make everything he can make. Like a singer that enjoys singing, singes. A racing drive races. A computer nerd computers. You do what you enjoy doing and as long as it hurts no, who cares.
Johnnny_reb Once a word is spoken it can not be unspoken!
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Broken Tie ...I purchased a solenoid switch machine when they were in vogue, then used it as a pattern and used my Unimat jewelers lathe to construct my own from scrap metal and some purchased wire... ...Recently I purchased a slow motion switch machine and carefully disassembled it. Using scrap I had from other projects; my trusty old jewelers lathe and some wire; I was able to make my own switch machine for less than half the cost of the purchased item...
Sean
HO Scale CSX Modeler
Broken TieI must be from another planet.
No, you're probably not from another planet, but neither do you seem to be able to grasp the concept that different people have different interests, abilities and priorities.
For example, I don't own any machine tools, and I have no real inclination to buy or learn how to use them. My interests are more oriented towards operations and the electrical/control aspects of the layout.
So for me, it's simpler, more economical, and quicker to simply buy switch machines than it would be to set up even a basic machine shop to make them on my own.
Those savings allow me to invest more time and money into "making" some of the things I use, such as the operational scheme, layout control logic, etc, save myself a grundle(?) of cash by not investing in machine tools, become an electrical/control craftsman, and learn something new, such as lots of things about how/why a prototype railroad operates.
I think I might try mining the nickle & silver to create my own rails.
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." -Aristotle
Motley This thread is pointless.
This thread is pointless.
Actually, it's the first time I've heard of anyone actually making his own solenoid switch machines in this day and age. For that alone, I found it interesting. Other than that, though, we can live without another "this hobby costs too much" or "RTR vs. Scratchbuilt" thread.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
/end of discussion
Michael
CEO- Mile-HI-RailroadPrototype: D&RGW Moffat Line 1989
Something about being from another planet.....
Umm, what's the point of this post?
A. Wallace Those who buy everything will never know the feeling of satisfaction one gets when placing something on the layout that you have designed and constructed with your own hands.
Those who buy everything will never know the feeling of satisfaction one gets when placing something on the layout that you have designed and constructed with your own hands.
This is undoubtedly true. However, they might also never know the satisfaction of being able to run a working scale layout at all otherwise. Something to think about.
A. Wallace Too bad. They are still "model railroaders", but they miss a great part of the fun in the hobby.
Too bad. They are still "model railroaders", but they miss a great part of the fun in the hobby.
Again, true, the last part, but why is it "too bad"? That's a value judgement. Would it be better that they don't get to run a layout of any description because they are spending so much time trying to find the experience you feel is necessary? When do they get to assign a value to what they feel is most valuable, such as their time, expenses for tools, etc.?
Those who buy everything will never know the feeling of satisfaction one gets when placing something on the layout that you have designed and constructed with your own hands. Too bad. They are still "model railroaders", but they miss a great part of the fun in the hobby.
Going back to Economics 101, did you amortize the cost of the lathe into the price of the products?
There are a lot of ways to throw switch points. Most of them don't require any kind of electrical machine, purchased or home-fabricated. I use cheap electrical slide switches to provide both locking and electrical contacts, and make linkages from such exotic materials as fishing leader, paper clips and worn out 1/4-20 hex nuts.
Even though I'm fully retired, I think of my time as a valuable commodity. Like Crandell, there are a lot of things I would rather do than manufacture solenoid switch machines. So, where I have to use them, I use commercial products - and control them by the stud-and-probe method. I still save a bundle, but at the opposite end of the wires. (I also save wire $$ by polarizing the activating power with cheap diodes. Since one diode costs about the same as 15 inches of wire, if the wire run exceeds 5 feet I save money. Most of my wire runs are a lot longer than 5 feet.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - inexpensively)
Not all of us have the time to make your own selenoid switches.
I have 24 Peco switches, with the Peco switch machines, and it was a lot work installing these. Then I installed 24 NCE switch-its for all DCC control of my switches.
It took quit a bit of time, energy, and patience to get this installed and working correctly. I can't imagine adding any more work than necessary just to save a few bucks.
To each his own, there are many ways to enjoy the hobby.
I don't think that most of us have the means or the knowledge to do what you did. I think we all in the hobby become creative in our own way. I don't know how many of use own a jewelers lathe.
There are those who like working with their hands and those who can't wait that long so the buy what they want. It all comes down to the way you like to do things.
How much is a grundle? How about no switch machines at all? I make the little over center springs and hand throw with a skewer. I get a bundle of .015 spring wire for under a buck and get about 20 to 25 springs from a 3 foot piece. They are faster to make and instal than it is getting my pliers and cutters out.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
The hobby is one which has many facets. Each of us can choose not only what to model, when to model, but also how to model. Personally, I'll buy my switch machines, and run them with simple toggles. At the same time, though, i've been making my own trees this time around. I've spent more than my typical month-per-square-foot working on a swamp in an awkward, empty space on my layout. I've picked up more stuff at the craft shops and in my own back yard than I have at the LHS.
Broken Tiemake some of the things you use yourself; save yourself a grundle of cash
Maybe its the tiny economist hiding inside of me, but this isn't always true.
I had selected or designed three different mechanisms for turnout control. I decided that I'd have to build a test version of each one. Two of them would never see action, after the prototype phase. They all had production costs of less than $5 a unit. However, I decided that the time to construct each one, work the bugs out, and ultimately construct multiples of each would exceed the cost of using a commercially available product with a shorter construction time. The price of my own labor was greater than the increased price of the commercial product and the estimated time of labor was far lower. I'd rather devote my labor and my time on something else instead of making turnout controls.
Broken Tie ....This is a hobby; there is no finishline; there is no cash reward at the end.
....This is a hobby; there is no finishline; there is no cash reward at the end.
While I am not an RTR fan, in defense of "those" guys, there are advantages to having lots of folks building their layout with RTR equipment.
Personally, I pick and choose what I wil buy and what I will make. Building my own switch machine seems like a waste of my time; I use manual controls instead with an occasional twin coil or Tortoise where needed. The same with electro-magnets - in less time I install rare earth cylinders, or hinged or sliding under the ties magnets for my uncouplers. I saw my Homasote myself from sheets. Building my own throttle, hand laying track, bashing and redoing low end locomotives and train set cars, building cars from kits, building and bashing wood or cardstock structure kits - these are all things I do to save money and/or enjoy my hobby time on my terms.
But I do appreciate what the RTR folks bring to the hobby - they do make it better for all.
Fred W
....modeling foggy coastal Oregon, where it's always 1900....
Thanks for the advice. Unfortunately, I have no interest in doing the things you do, presumably things that motivate you. I have other activities that compete for my time, but I still have a strong hankering to run trains. So, apart from building a layout from scratch, and learning how to make spline roadbed and handlaid turnouts of a couple kinds, and wiring it all so that it ran, I would rather cut some time requirements and pay someone else to make the finnicky stuff....finnicky to me.
You are not alone, though. Many in the hobby still make their own locomotives and scratchbuild wonderfully intricate structures.
I must be from another planet. It becomes obvious that model railroading has become a hobby one purchases; sets up and operates. I feel like I"m a dinosaur. I purchased a solenoid switch machine when they were in vogue, then used it as a pattern and used my Unimat jewelers lathe to construct my own from scrap metal and some purchased wire. Cheap does not describe the cost of the switch machines I used on the layout I had back then.
Recently I purchased a slow motion switch machine and carefully disassembled it. Using scrap I had from other projects; my trusty old jewelers lathe and some wire; I was able to make my own switch machine for less than half the cost of the purchased item. I'm curious when I hear people moan about costs. This is a hobby; make some of the things you use yourself; save yourself a grundle of cash, become a craftsman, learn somethng new. This is a hobby; there is no finishline; there is no cash reward at the end.