jalajoie ATLANTIC CENTRAL: OK, That's fine, so what is your "objection" to Atlas turnouts? Sheldon It is some little things that may not be too much of an hassle or a problem when taken individually, but the sum of them total to a deal breaker to me. Off hand I am thinking about the dimension and spacing of the ties, the size of the rail spikes, the frogs wiring taps, the rail cross section and the many problems reported with them on many lists. Am I nitpicking, probably but this is me. I am building a Freemo look alike modules and my first choice for turnouts will be ME. If due to ME limited offering I can't find what I want, second choice is Peco and as a last resort it will be Walthers/Shinohara. These turnouts will be hand thrown and the frogs will be powered with Frog Juicer.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL: OK, That's fine, so what is your "objection" to Atlas turnouts? Sheldon
OK, That's fine, so what is your "objection" to Atlas turnouts?
Sheldon
It is some little things that may not be too much of an hassle or a problem when taken individually, but the sum of them total to a deal breaker to me. Off hand I am thinking about the dimension and spacing of the ties, the size of the rail spikes, the frogs wiring taps, the rail cross section and the many problems reported with them on many lists. Am I nitpicking, probably but this is me.
I am building a Freemo look alike modules and my first choice for turnouts will be ME. If due to ME limited offering I can't find what I want, second choice is Peco and as a last resort it will be Walthers/Shinohara. These turnouts will be hand thrown and the frogs will be powered with Frog Juicer.
Well, if it is fine detail you want, you should be looking at Central Valley turnout kits - they win hands down in the detail department - way better and more correct than any of those brands you listed.
And if fine scale detail on a turnout is that important, you are right, you don't want Atlas.
But I would challenge the idea of "many reported problems". for every "problem" I have read on one of these forums, 20 others on the same forum say they work great, that is operationally, not judging them on such strict appearence criteria.
I suspect some of those who had "problems" would likely have problems with anything.
A few other notes - agreed the ties and spikes are way over sized on the CODE 100 version, but the CODE 83 versions are much better in that regard - not as scale/small as ME, but every bit as good as Wathers.
Personally, I feel that once track is ballasted, painted and weathered in place, such fine detail is of little notice or importance.
I was once a fine detail fanatic, but soon learned overall impression is usually more effective than detail over kill.
Remember, at 3 actual feet you are 261 scale feet away from you subject - which details would you see at that distance? Just my opinion.
I don't use DCC so I have no use for the frog juicer, my frogs are wired to the switch machines or to slide switches which are the basis of my home made ground throws.
I'm building a layout that will include nearly 200 turnouts, cost and durablity is a factor. Atlas turnouts meet those requirements based on my 40 years of experiance building layouts and for a few years, selling model trains.
Thank you for taking the time to clarify your comments and thoughts.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL OK, That's fine, so what is your "objection" to Atlas turnouts? Sheldon
Jack W.
jalajoie At the club which is HO and DCC, we use Code 83 Micro Engineering weathered flex track with Walthers/Shinohara non DCC friendly turnouts, for trackage that is in view. For hidden trackage it is Code 100 Atlas flex track and Peco Code 100 turnouts. We use Tortoise switch machine. Personally I use Code 83 Micro Engineering track with a mix of Peco, Walthers and Micro Engineering turnouts. Micro Engineering turnouts are the best looking in my opinion. However the offering is limited and I don't like the way the frog is built. Walther/Shinohara are also good looking but the rail cross section if too large for my liking. Peco has a nice rail, the cross section is close to the Micro Engineering except the points are stamped steel and look too flimsy for me. I never use Atlas turnouts and don't use plastic frog turnouts they look awful to me. Non DCC friendly turnouts don't give me any problems on my DCC powered modules.
At the club which is HO and DCC, we use Code 83 Micro Engineering weathered flex track with Walthers/Shinohara non DCC friendly turnouts, for trackage that is in view. For hidden trackage it is Code 100 Atlas flex track and Peco Code 100 turnouts. We use Tortoise switch machine.
Personally I use Code 83 Micro Engineering track with a mix of Peco, Walthers and Micro Engineering turnouts.
Micro Engineering turnouts are the best looking in my opinion. However the offering is limited and I don't like the way the frog is built.
Walther/Shinohara are also good looking but the rail cross section if too large for my liking.
Peco has a nice rail, the cross section is close to the Micro Engineering except the points are stamped steel and look too flimsy for me.
I never use Atlas turnouts and don't use plastic frog turnouts they look awful to me.
Non DCC friendly turnouts don't give me any problems on my DCC powered modules.
Pretty much the same here. I just looked at the Atlas custom line again at the store (the newer version with the metal frogs) The frog is still a "no go" for me. Everyone makes choices based on their own standards. I do value looks as well as reliability, so I use ME most of the time Other brands I have currently on the layout include Walthers/Shinohara. Darr. Railway Engineering, Peco, Bk, Litco and Scratchbuilt.
The current list of the Atlas is $21.95 current list for the Micro Engineering is $20.95. However I do usually see the Atlas at a steeper discount...
If I had it to do over, I would use Fast Tracks as much as possible.
My two cents,
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
jalajoie Sorry Sheldon, my post was terribly worded, it should have been clear it was two different statements. I meant I don't use Atlas switches period, whether plastics or metal frog. In a different sentence I should have said plastic frog look awful to me regardless of the brand. This is some of the pitfall someone will stumble into, when tying to learn a foreign language.
Sorry Sheldon, my post was terribly worded, it should have been clear it was two different statements.
I meant I don't use Atlas switches period, whether plastics or metal frog. In a different sentence I should have said plastic frog look awful to me regardless of the brand.
This is some of the pitfall someone will stumble into, when tying to learn a foreign language.
jalajoie,
I believe I know three words in French..... ha ha
Frank
jalajoie I never use Atlas turnouts and don't use plastic frog turnouts they look awful to me.
Atlas Custom Line code 83 and code 100 turnouts do NOT have plastic frogs, they have isolated, blackened metal frogs with wiring taps that can be powered if desired. They where actually the first turnout on the market to be what is commonly called "DCC friendly".
Only the train set type "snap switch" from Atlas has a plastic frog. Those things equal an 18" radius curves and should not be used for anything except maybe waterfront street trackage - they equal about a #3-1/2 turnout.
I find it interesting how people criticize products they know nothing about - or, make statements that are based on some version of a a product that has not been made in 4 decades.
As for the appearance of the Atlas frog, well it depends on what you are modeling. Real Class I railroads have been using big ugly cast frogs in some places for 40-50 years now - but many built up frogs still exist - which look more like your typical Wathers/Peco?hand layed frog - take your choice.
As Chuck commented, hand layed is no doubt the best if you have time and the skills.
Baring that choice, Atlas makes the most sense to me for the following reasons:
The newest versions, on the market for years now, have reversable throw bars.
They also now have points made from sold rail - NO MORE stamped metal points like days of old.
They mate up into crossovers and make yard ladders with 2" track centers with no trimming.
They are VERY afforable, especially if you shop around.
The "#4" is really a #4-1/2, always has been since its introduction decades ago.
Once painted and weathered, they look nearly as good any of that $25-$30 stuff.
They do work fine, they don't have little springs built in that interfere with slow motion switch machines.
The switch machine choices are wide - again the reversable throw bar helps here.
Since they are "wired through" they do not depend on the points for power routing and the points are electricaly feed from both directions without little tabs to get bent or stop working - more reliable over the long term with less maintenance in my experiance.
The only "tweek" I have ever had to do is to gently file down the frog which is sometimes a little higher than the running rails.
I run on a number of layouts built exclusively or mainly with Atlas turnouts - turnouts are never an operational problem on thses layouts - can't say that about some that use Walthers/Sinohara and or Peco.
I do use Walthers turnouts for specialties like slip switches. I hand lay my own curved turnouts where needed. The rest are Atlas code 83 #4, #6 and #8 as is approprate.
My views on some of those other brands:
Wathers - they are OK, but why the long extension on the diverging route that you always have to trim off? And too pricey. Again I use their new slip switches - pretty nice - only needed a few so the cost was OK.
Peco - the new code 83 line is nice - but I have never cared for the built in throw bar spring - too much money to then have to modifiy for use with my Tortoise machines. The old code 100 witth the curved frogs - NEVER, this a North American railroad.
Micro Engineering - too pricey, selection too limited. Weathered rail a pain to solder - I solder all my rail joints.
tschwarz richhotrain: csxns: Peco,Rules. Nah, Atlas Rules ! Nah, Walthers/Shinohara Rules!
richhotrain: csxns: Peco,Rules. Nah, Atlas Rules !
csxns: Peco,Rules.
Peco,Rules.
Nah, Atlas Rules !
Nah, Walthers/Shinohara Rules!
Handlaid in place turns over the four aces and king of Spades and takes the hand.
(And, yes, I have tested all the commercial products named.)
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with hand-laid specialwork)
The absolute best turnouts, since I have used Shinohara, Walthers, ME, and Atlas in the past, are the custom made turnouts from Railway Engineering. They are a bit pricier that the others but they absolutely work. Even though I use DCC, I purchase the non-DCC turnouts with weathering and ties. The website is www.railwayeng.com
richhotrain csxns: Peco,Rules. Nah, Atlas Rules !
It's all I use even though they cost a little bit more. I think they look great and work great.
Modeling the Pittsburgh Division of the Baltimore & Ohio Railroad from Glenwood Yard to New Castle Yard following the old P&W Mainline.
Visit my website at: http://www.baltimoreandohiorr.com
csxns Peco,Rules.
Alton Junction
Russell
I had used the Atlas turnouts but on the latest layout I switched to PECO. Mostly because they are spring loaded and you can move them with your finger and they stay in the position you put them in.
Springfield PA
Hi!
One primary factor will help guide you, and that is "available funds". A secondary factor could be availability.
The Atlas trackage (code 100 or 83) is probably the least expensive, giving you the most "bang for the buck". With some weathering, it can look really good, and its reputation for quality is pretty high. With Atlas code 100 turnouts (not sure about code 83), you can use fairly inexpensive above the table switch machines.
On the other hand, you have Walthers, Peco, and others. They are more costly, but certainly more realistic, and you can get "exotic" trackage like curved turnouts, 3 way turnouts, complete crossovers, etc. They require below the table switch machines (can be fairly expensive), or above the table manual controls.
If you decide to go the "more costly" route, availability may be a problem - especially from your LHS. However, most all components are available from the various online shops.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
I use Atlas flex track, Atlas Custom Line turnouts, and Tortoises to power the turnouts.
Sure, the Tortoise is more expensive than a manual ground throw, but the remote control feature of the Tortoise is something to consider.
Rich
I prefer Shinohara. I don't worry about mixing with atlas flex. It's easy to shim up the TOs with 1/128" wood vernier or cardstock. I have used a few atlas mark III's. The shinoharas look a bit better and generally perform very well, particularly on the curved version. Just be SURE to make them DCC friendly (if not so already) BEFORE laying the track (15-20 minutes vs 2 hours). Don't ask. IMHO tortoise switch machines with a split power supply are the best way to go.
Good luck.
The mind is like a parachute. It works better when it's open. www.stremy.net
What flex brand do you have? Although you can mix brands of flex and turnouts, life is easier if they are the same because they differ slightly in ties and rails. I prefer Walthers/Shinohara Code 83 (I assume you're doing HO) for looks, quality, and especially if you have curved turnouts.
You can remotely control turmouts manually either by making your own devices (see many threads & articles for suggestions) or use the reasonably-priced devices from Humpyard, Blue Point or Bullfrog. Motor operated controls, such as the popular Tortoise, are more costly.
Dante
Most of my turnouts are Atlas, with a few Walthers I got when I could find some for a deal. Atlas most always need a little tweaking. The Walthers are great right of the bat.The Atlas have served me well. The difference being about 5$ difference between the two. For control, I use ground throws for anything within 2ft. of the layout front, this saves a lot of money. All remote controls are Tortoise. Pricey but they work great.
Phil, CEO, Eastern Sierra Pacific Railroad. We know where you are going, before you do!
My choice of turnouts was Peco. That's all I have ever used and they have worked fine for me.
But combining the turn out and a switch machine my reccomendation would depend on the layout base. The Peco switch motor attaches directly underneath the turnout and if you want to send power to an accesory switch or light you will need to add this additional feature which means will need to be atleast an an inch deep hole. I have a 2 inch foam base over plywood so this hasn't been a problem for me.
So using Peco switch machines imo would be determined by the difficulty of making this opening in the layout top. If that's a problem you could use a slow motion switch machine. such as a Tortoise.
At present I determine which way the turnout is thrown by having all of the turnouts in a through position when the toggle switch has been pushed in an up positiion. I have the accessory switches in place and ready to use if I want.
Happy Railroading
Bob
Don't Ever Give Up
Ok, I’ve got all my flex track laid out how I want it, now is the time to put in place any turnouts that I want. Big decision, what brand to use, Atlas, Peco or Walthers? I also want to make them remote controlled and what type of product to use? I am on a budget, so cost is a big factor. What is the best product that I need to use to do this?
Thanks,