I have a new HO Walthers 130 ft Turntable that I recently installed. First few movements were quite successful. Now, it thumps as it moves and it appears that it is binding or skipping as the drive gear tries to move the turntable. I lpulled the bridge off and I do not see any debris that would be causing a bind. Has anyone experienced this? I put an F unit on the bridge to add weight but it still does it. Has anyone polished the center pivot? The bridge is tight in it's fit but will turn. I tried a search on the "Search this Site" but only go product reviews when searched on Turntables. Thanks.
I would think that the bridge should turn freely without any drag or resistant. How does the drive sound while turning free with the bridge is out of place?
Johnnny_reb Once a word is spoken it can not be unspoken!
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What kind of 'new' turntable is this, a kit or the indexed 'built-up' version? The reason I ask is that you used the term 'pivot' and 'polish', which don't seem to go well together with the construction of the new built-up version with the indexed drive already installed. The only thing to polish, possibly, would be one of several copper/phosphor blade contacts, or wipers. The bridge actually rides on two wheel sets on each end of the bridge.
The older kit probably has that large black plastic ring gear that meshes with a spur gear driven on the motor axle (motorizing kit sold separately). I have a less than pleasant background with the 90' version of that kit, and the central pivot was a bear. Also, the pit wall was not round. I had no end of trouble with that horrible contraption.
Crandell
GMILL47 I have a new HO Walthers 130 ft Turntable that I recently installed. First few movements were quite successful. Now, it thumps as it moves and it appears that it is binding or skipping as the drive gear tries to move the turntable. I lpulled the bridge off and I do not see any debris that would be causing a bind. Has anyone experienced this? I put an F unit on the bridge to add weight but it still does it. Has anyone polished the center pivot? The bridge is tight in it's fit but will turn. I tried a search on the "Search this Site" but only go product reviews when searched on Turntables. Thanks.
Based upon my experience, there is almost certainly debris lodged between the white plastic gears that run over the circular toothed gear inside the turntable pit. Remove the turntable bridge and turn it over to inspect the gears which are visible and located at the end of the bridge. If you don't see debris or cannot remove it, take out the screws that hold the gear assembly in place and you will be able to manually (and carefully) rotate the gears enough to spot and remove the debris.
The usual offender in my case is the small Woodland Scenics Cinders that I use in the surrounding yard. If there is no debris in gears, you should be able to rotate the gears freely between your fingers.
As soon as I saw the Subject of your post, words like "thumps" and "skips" were all I needed to read to convince myself that debris is your problem. When I get debris in the gears, the turntable thumps, binds, jumps, skips, you name it, it does it.
I try to vacuum the turntable before every use, particularly after I have been doing track work in the area. But, sometimes I am negligent, and the thumps and skips are the inevitable result. In my case, stray cinders fall into the toothed gear inside the pit. From there, the rotating turntable bridge picks up the debris in the gears. Typically, you cannot see the offending debris because it is already lodged between the gears.
The fact that the turntable worked flawlessly at first and now thumps and sklps is further evidence of debris lodged between the gears.
Rich
Alton Junction
Crandell;
Have you done anything to get around that? I built the same turntable (90-ft) from the same kit. my thought was to chuck that whole gear garbage, go to a brass/bronze gear set fit onto a steel sleeve; afix that to the table rotor (plastic column) so that it is square and plumb (probably a monster undertaking), and then drive the whole from an industrial type stepper system. the one thing that will raise hell with plastic is ANY slop whatsoever in the system, which is why I say go with steel fittings that fit into one another, and lube the whole with lithium grease, which will generally not attack plastic (I don't think). What are your thoughts?
EF-3 Yellowjacket
Rich, I would certainly do all that if I had the skills and could get the materials cheaply. As it was, the kit was some $25.00, and the motorizing kit another $35.
However, the two problems I mentioned earlier are not the only ones. Another was that the copper wipers held horizontally on the brass rings did not want to say horizontal. They couldn't be tightened adequately without breaking something. So, I had to fashion two thin plastic spacers, flanges, below each brass ring in case they lost their purchases and slipped.
Another huge problem was realized by other users who have reported here over the past five years. The bottom bearing for the spindle under the bridge, the pivot in other words, doesn't work in some cases. I don't know what the problem is, but the spindle won't sit in the bearing properly.
I recently installed the 90' built-up turntable and it worked great until......I ballasted some track near it and some of the cinders fell down into the grooves on the rail and some of these got picked up by the white plastic gears. This caused the gears to bind and when it would go over one of the grains of ballast, the bridge would actually lift up - and bump along. As someone already mentioned, this could be your problem.
Once I saw what had happened, I used an Xacto knife and carefully removed every grain of ballast in the grooves on the pit rail. Getting the grains out the gears was a little more difficult. I would run the motor until it seemed to bind then I was able to pick out the ballast with a plastic toothpick. After I removed all the ballast grains, the bridge ran as before.
In the instructions, Walthers says to cover the center hole to prevent debris from falling on the contacts and to vacuum the entire assembly everytime any work is performed around the pit. Now I not only vacuum the pit, I cover it completely to prevent anything from falling into it.
Hope this helps.
There's never time to do it right, but always time to do it over.....
Thank you to all who have replied. I am going to copy here the response I received from Walthers who kindly and quickly sent a response to my inquiry to them. I will also post my reponse to their reply. For those above, this is a new pre-assembled turntable that is indexed.
Walthers reply:
It sounds like you've gotten something in the gears at the end of the bridge. Even a piece of ground foam or ballast half the size of the head of a pin can cause serious operational problems with the turntable. Please read the following instructions for cleaning the bridge gears.
Remove the bridge from the turntable pit and place it upside down on a soft cradle so as not to damage the railings. Using a Sharpie or other form of marker, mark one of the gear teeth to assure complete 360 degree rotation of gears and as visible proof that gears are turning. Use the impeller (fan shaped blade on back side of the motor housing) to turn the gears - be advised that it will take a great deal of revolutions to get the gears to move as the gear ratio is so low. Then, using very good lighting, magnification (we recommend an optivisor type of head piece) and an Exacto knife with a #11 blade (or other equivalent tool) remove ANYTHING that you find in the gears using the mark that you made on one of the gear teeth as a reference to do a complete rotation of the gears. Once you have thoroughly cleaned the gears test the bridge for operations (it is a good idea at this point to vacuum the pit before replacing the bridge for testing). When you are satisfied that it is operating properly use a light weight white hobby grease such as that by LaBelle or Woodland Scenics to re-lubricate the gears. Be advised that a little grease will go a long way. As an alternative method you can use CRC QD Electronics Cleaner (available at most auto parts
stores) or an equivalent electronics cleaner (often called tuner wash).
Spray the gears fairly liberally and then use a can of compressed air (available at most computer supply and electronics stores) to spray out excess liquid and debris. Rotate gears at least partially using method in first cleaning procedure to insure that all gear surfaces are clean.
Re-lubricate gears after testing. To clean the bridge post and electrical contact fingers in the pit you can use the same CRC Electronics Cleaner or rubbing alcohol. DO NOT use a rail cleaner as many of them contain a conductive substance that can bridge the gaps of the bridge post contacts and cause a short circuit which could result in serious damage to the turntable electronics.
And now my response. For the life of me, I don't see anything in the pit teeth or the gear teeth.
Thank you for the kind reply. Tonight I had limited time so did the following:
I took the bridge off and inspected the gears using the optivisor and a light also. Although the gear teeth visible at this inspection showed nothing in them, I did run an exacto knife in the valleys. I returned the bridge to the pit and activated it, it seems to move one direction better than the other but still the noise. Removed the bridge and did the same again. Replaced the bridge and activated it moving only a short distance then removed and cleaned again. I did this several times and although I did not mark the gear teeth, I never found any debris. Then I tried activating the bridge and lifted the driven end. Without the gears engaged in the pit teeth, it made a thumping sound. So...it must be in the drive mechanism. Is it possible to undo the screws that hold the motor and the gears and open them up to see if there is something binding the gears inside - or are there any? I purchased the turntable last November at a train show here in Denver and left it in the box until about a month ago when I finally got the hole set up for the pit and installed it. I checked for level and shimmed to obtain a level pit side to side. I am quite baffled and if you still feel it is debris in the teeth, I will mark the teeth and clean them as you describe. Thanks for any help you can offer.
GMILL47,
As I mentioned in an earlier reply, once a small piece of debris is lodged between the gears, you cannot see it.
If you don't see debris, take out the screws that hold the gear assembly in place and you will be able to manually (and carefully) rotate the gears enough to spot and remove the debris. If there is no debris in gears, you should be able to rotate the gears freely between your fingers.
It is possible to remove the screws that hold the gear assembly in place. Once you do that, you can free the debris from where it is lodged in the gears.
From your description of the problem. I am convinced that it is likely debris lodged in the gears. When you tried activating the bridge and lifted the driven end without the gears engaged in the pit teeth, it still made a thumping sound. So, you concluded it must be in the drive mechanism. But, when debris is lodged in the gears, of course the bridge will make a thumping sound because the gears are trying to turn with an obstacle in their path. Pursue the debris in the gears issue.
The information contained in the reply from Walthers is pretty good. Thanks for sharing.
Just an update. Given the time needed I intend to inver the bridge and open the gear enclosure and clean it this weekend. Probaly should build a locomotive cradle to hold the bridge. I've needed one for some time and next project will probably be a sound decoder in a brass locomotive.
Regards
GMILL47 Just an update. Given the time needed I intend to inver the bridge and open the gear enclosure and clean it this weekend. Probaly should build a locomotive cradle to hold the bridge. I've needed one for some time and next project will probably be a sound decoder in a brass locomotive. Regards
Start out by just loosening the screws that hold the gear assembly in place without removing the screws. That should free the gears enough to attempt to remove any debris lodged between the gear teeth. You won't see it at first, but I am betting that it is there. Try to turn the gears with your fingers. They will probably be stuck because of the debris. Spray compressed air on the gears if you have a can of compressed air (Radio Shack) handy. That will often do the trick. Use a needle to pick at the gears to see if you can free them up. Be patient, keep trying, you will get it. Once the debris is removed the gears will rotate freely between your fingers. Stuck gears is a sure sign that there is debris lodged between the gears.
I have it working again. Here's the story. I inverted the bridge and took the out the screw holding the cover over the gears. There are plastic braces that you have to pull out of their recesses in the bridge in order to get the cover off. Be careful not to pop off the roller wheel bearing blocks, leave those on the gear cover. the gears were now exposed but I was not able to remove. One gear has a shaft extension going to the motor enclosure housing towards the center of the bridge. I could see nothing in the gears at this point. Rotating the "fan" which is a counter sensor for the motor will move the gears as noted in the note from Walthers. But I could still see nothing in the gears. Now I was afraid that the gears in the gear reducer in the motor housing must be stripped.
So, I removed the motor housing enclosure. There are more details to how, so if someone needs to know how, let me know. To shorten the story, once the motor gear reduce was open I inspected those gears and found no damage nor debris in the gears. I raised the gear that has the extended shaft to the drive at the end of the bridge and rotated it. No bind, jump, thump, just clean rotation. When I was inspecting the bridge upside down before I began taking it apart I noticed that the drive shaft looked like it was at an angle. When I assembled the drive I noticed the angle was gone. I believe that the motor enclosure which holds the shaft extension and it's worm gear in alignment engaged in the worm gear was not screwed down tight. When I reassembled the drive, the motor enclosure was tightened down to insure the gears are engaged. I now believe what was happening is that the thumjping was caused by poor alignment of the gear engaged with the worm gear. Thanks to all who have responded. And believe me that I will keep my pit and gears clean, it is clear that this is an important aspect to keeping this turntable opetating reliably.
Congratulations, job well done. Having disassembled and reassembled the gear drive, you are light years ahead of the game at this point in the event that you ever do get debris caught in the gears.
To my mind, it is important that anyone who owns the Walthers Cornerstone Turntable be familiar with the disassembly and reassembly of the gear drive for maintenance purposes.