I have been reading up on turnout controls. Both electrical and manual and have seen some interesting threads on them but I would like to compile it all into one list or thread. What I would like to see is how you control yours and why you prefer use the why you do.
As a newbie I find that the biggest thing is to learn to always look at the turnout points before crossing one. Almost all of my derailments have been because of miss thrown or miss run turnouts. As a newbie this is the biggest learning curve for me. Right now I'm thinking of installing the controls for the switches in such a way as they reflect the way the turnout is thrown by using a flag or ground target beside the turnout in question. As it would let me install the turnout controls on the fascia or the layout.
So my question is, How do you control your turnouts? Please explain all steps in construction and why you like this type of control.
Johnnny_reb Once a word is spoken it can not be unspoken!
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I prefer to use mechanical controls (self made, Bluepoint, ..) where the prototype has hand thrown turnouts. And I use a switch motor (I prefer tortoise) where the prototype would use remote controlled turnouts (and in staging)
Wolfgang
Pueblo & Salt Lake RR
Come to us http://www.westportterminal.de my videos my blog
Johnny,
I have many different turnout actuators on my layout.
Most are twin coil peco point motors that are drived from a CDU unit. (easy to install if installed when laying the track as they attach to the turnout, but they need a big hole in the roadbed)
I also use modified old telephone relays with lots of contacts for signalling and powering the frogs with on/of switches on 12volt DC. (can be installed anytime as I solder a stiff wire to the armature of the relay and poke it up thru the centre of the throw bar. But I have to solder the wire on with a BIG soldering iron and also make up a mounting bracket, I also remove the centering spring from the peco turnouts)
I have one slow motion stall motor controlled by a DPDT switch (Bit fiddly to install, but nice action and quiet, needs polarity reversal switch [ DPDT ] which cost extra. also needs to remove the centering spring from the peco turnouts)
I have one servo controlled turnout using Tam Valley DCC Singlet that can be activated from the 2 buttons on the singlet or using my Powercab and the DCC Accessory . (remove the centering spring from the peco turnouts, not cheap but pretty nice action. I might reuse the servo for semaphore signal instead)
Lastly I have some manually controlled.
All turnouts are peco electro frog.
Which is the best????
I still don't know. I like the relays because they were cheap and the extra contacts are great for signalling etc. I like the slow motion of the stall motor and the servo motor, but both of them and the twin solenoids need extra contacts for signaling
cheers
Alan Jones in Sunny Queensland (Oz)
Johnnny_reb I have been reading up on turnout controls. Both electrical and manual and have seen some interesting threads on them but I would like to compile it all into one list or thread. What I would like to see is how you control yours and why you prefer use the why you do.
I've always been an experimenter in this area. On previous layouts, I have used a mixture of Atlas and Kemtron and True-Scale switch machines with Atlas turnouts. All but the Atlas switch machine had contacts for powering frogs (not available on Atlas code 100 turnouts) and automating block control and/or signals. I used a CD power supply, and had a diode matrix for selecting routes in the yard.
I did not want a twin coil machine for my handlaid turnouts. I still feel that way despite improved point-to-thowbar connections on my handlaid turnouts. I tried simply moving points by hand, and a memory wire switch machine (called Nichrome wire back then).
The memory wire switch machine was time-consuming to construct a frame for, and took a fairly healthy power supply if very many were left in the "on" position. Heat and drafts were issues, too. OTOH, memory wire is totally silent, except for the power transformer hum, and very gentle but sure. And it was easily controlled with a DPST non-momentary toggle in the fascia which also provided the contact for the live frogs. The direction of the toggle handle indicated which way the turnout was thrown.
This time around, I'm deliberately trying a variety of methods to see which I like best. I have a couple of Atlas machines, a couple of NJ International, a Tortoise, a Blue Point, a Bull Frog, a couple of different Caboose Industries, and maybe some home-made controls using slide or toggle switches to try out.
When I was in 3 rail O, having non-derailing turnouts was nice. But the non-derailing feature wasn't always easy to keep working 100% of the time. And non-derailing doesn't read my mind about which path to take; it only works when approaching from the frog end. Non-derailing can be duplicated in 2 rail using some sort of detection and relay to throw the turnouts - it's not rocket science. But the need for non-derailing implies display running at fairly healthy speeds.
Back in HO and HOn3, my trains travel at much slower speeds. And I do a lot more switching. So I use walk-around control. Which makes seeing which way a turnout is thrown much easier. Personal preference - I strongly dislike central control panels with indicator lights. The central panel with lights makes me feel like I'm back in a helicopter cockpit, not operating a model railroad.
With walk-around control, both manual and switch machines are quite practical with controls directly at the turnout or at the fascia. Which way is better depends on one's personal feelings about reaching into the layout to throw the turnouts.
Try one of several methods and see which you like best.
Fred W
I use Tortoise switch machines to control the movement of my turnouts. Each Tortoise is wired to a DPDT toggle switch on a control panel. If the toggle is thrown to the down position, the route is set to straight through. If the toggle switch is up, the route is set to divergent. A bi-polar LED situated right above the DPDT toggle switch is wired to turn green when the toggle is thrown to the down position and red when the toggle switch is thrown to the up position.
Rich
Alton Junction
I control my turnouts with Digitrax DS-64s because of their ability to run routes and cascading routes. I believe that some systems call the routes macros.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
Johnnny_reb Almost all of my derailments have been because of miss thrown or miss run turnouts. As a newbie this is the biggest learning curve for me.
Well, you're not alone, and it's not just a rookie mistake. In fact, that speaks well for your trackwork, because it's the "human factor," and not the trackwork, that's doing the damage.
I have a subway system beneath my "normal" layout, and all of the turnouts are pretty much hidden from view. So, I installed low-cost latching relays in parallel with the Atlas and Peco switch machines that drive the subterranean turnouts. These are in turn wired to LED indicators on the subway control panel, which is a track schematic. I added a couple of additional turnouts to the system last year. For these, I used a commercial product from this guy: http://www3.sympatico.ca/kstapleton3/751D.HTM
That product is a small electronics package which combines a toggle with a circuit to drive a twin-coil turnout and a pair of indicator LEDs. He sells them assembled, or as a bag of parts with instructions if you'd like to save some money and assemble them yourself.
For a few of my turnouts, I've installed illuminated signals as indicators. Really, these are not much better than checking the point position by eye, but let's face it, who doesn't just love signals? The ones currently on my layout are driven by relays or Peco's accessory units, but the ones for Phase 2 will connect to the Tortoises I'm using for my front-of-the-layout turnouts there.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
The majority of the layouts in my area use pushrod turnout controls using Radio Shack toggle switches and homemade mounts. My previous layout and many in this area, use a convention that when the pushrod is in, the turnout is "normal" and when the push rod is out, the turnout is "reverse". With turnouts mounted in the facia that makes it easy to scan down the fascia and tell whether the turnouts are lined or not.
The caveat with that is that it requires a little more though on the linkages.
My current layout doesn't use that standard, it became cumbersome with my new mounts and since my turnout pushrods are recessed into the fascia you can't see them anyway.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
On my narrow shelf HO switching layout, Caboose Industries ground throws work fine for me, as I walk w/trains, am my own switchman. TTFN....papasmurf
I use Tortoise Switch machines with DCC controls on my automated turnouts. For others I use manual control of PECO spring loaded turnouts
Springfield PA
I'm using toggle switches to operate Tortoise machines. Like Rich above, "up" and "down" locations are specific to the throwout position. I bought 8 pin connectors that plug right onto the Tortoise machines for ease of soldering, and for if I ever decide to use Hares or Wabbits (DCC Specialities units) in the future the install will be easier as will adding LED indicators, signal lights, etc.
LED's will be added in the future, because as Mr Beasley stated they're cool. And I think we all want the cool factor, right?
I've been away from trains for decades. When I decided to get back into it & learned about DCC, I was psyched. I initially was going to go with full DCC operation of the switches, but being a newbie, I realized that I might be over-complicating things. So, toggle switches were used. KISS is my mantra in life, lol, and keeping everything on the track without collisions or derailments is my main priority at this point.
-Ed
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." -Aristotle
I run NCE DCC / HO
Layout has 86 switches (all walthers C83 with tortoises)
NCE SW8's and Mini Panels control either/or: Panel pusbuttons / Cab DCC contoller
I ran 2 leds each in parallel (with resistors at 5 ma) and the tortoise motor wires to the SW8 outputs. This kept the tortoises at the full voltage instead of dropping voltage thru the LEDs, only added 10 ma (plus the 20 for the tortoise) per output of the SW8, (since you can't exceed 40 ma) and allows me all the tortoise aux switch points to be used for future signaling. (without all the DCC signaling headache ).
I get DCC and panel control for all the switches and signaling switches (on the tortoises) all ready to be wired some day.
RF&PRR
Anyone use the Hump Yard manual controls?
These....http://www.humpyard.com/
I'm thinking seriously of using them when I build my layout.
Tom
My method is fairly well explained here:
http://look4trains.com/2011/03/bending-iron-at-187th-scale.html
As I say in the post, criteria for me include price, reliability, and ability to control remotely. I also like the feeling of using something I have made. I have enough ready to run equipment, and making my own turnout controls gives me at least some modeling satisfaction.
Good thread.
Visit look4trains.com
I am using Tortise machines and Walthers/shinohara turnouts with visual indicator LED's at each turnout, simulating a lighted target or lantern. I use a bi-polar 3mm LED that changes from Red to Green depending on which direction the current is flowing. I have attached a couple of photos and a sketch of how I build mine. I don't have all of them done but plan to make a mold and cast the little 'indicator housings' and fit the LED's into them. Just another idea that works for me. I like to see how the turnout is set before a train goes throught it.
- *Bob
Life is what happens while you are making other plans!
farrellaa
That is a really cool solution to turnout indicators. Beats the cost of dwarf signals! Well done!!!
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
I like the Humpyard www.humpyard.com manual controls. If you think a bit as you install them you can have all mainline levers in one direction and sidings in the opposite direction. I figured it out so it’s not that tough. At a glance towards those levers I know where each switch is directed. No electronics to mess with (unless you want to electrify them for signals) and they operate quite smoothly. I operate my RR from a central stool inside a U-shaped layout. One of these days I'll add a walk around capability but for now those manual controls have never screwed up but like you, I've still managed to cause a few derailments by not looking at those levers. Foolproof doesn't mean it is foolish proof but with the Humpyard levers you'll know it was your fault with no tracing of wires nor checking circuits.
Roy Onward into the fog http://s1014.photobucket.com/albums/af269/looseclu/
Guess I'm the only one. I use servos and controllers from Tam Valley Depot. Cheaper then the increasingly more expensive Tortoise. The controlelr has pushbuttons and LEDs to indicate the position, the LEDs can even dispkay different colors, all user configurable. Want green and yellow? No problem. Yellow to the selected side and darkt he other? No problem. It's all on a tiny circuit board that mounts to the fascia with a single screw (and 5 holes - 2 for the pushbuttons, 3 for the LEDs, and a center one for the mounting screw. A template is provided. They also happen to be DCC accessory decoders, so you CAN control them with DCC as well - however an plain AC power supply can be used if you have no desire to control turnouts via DCC.
Mounting the servo is super simply if you have used a more 'traditional' approach with plywood subroadbed - you cna just glue the servo on its side right to the plywood. Ultra-micro servos can be used and mounted right to the bottom of the turnout for a 'top down' approach in a foam layout, or they can be glued underneatht he foam, or in a hybrid plywood/foam situation there is a nifty mouting bracket made by Motrak to screw the servo to the bottom of the layout. An added benefit is that servos are TINY. Clearance issues in a complex area like a yard throat, or when you have a multi-deck layout, are a thing of the past. You can fit them anywhere - and if they stilla ren;t small enough, there's the whole model plane department fo the hobby shp for any variation of cranks and levers you can imagine.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Randy,
I looked into the Tam Valley stuff a little too late, I already had about 75% of my layout setup with the Tortise machines. I like the servo idea and would have tried them if I was starting over. I purchase the Tortises' in lots of 6 or 8 and about $14 each; better than the $19.95 they now retail for. I only need about 2-3 more to finish my layout trackwork. I also have some of mine set up with a stationary decoder to operate them from my DCC system, a convenience in some locations.
Wow so many ways to control your turnouts. Thanks for your input all.
Right now I like the BullFrog setup, but as I have a bunch of the Caboose Hobbies Ground Throws I will start off with a mix of both. I need to pickup a bunch of slid switches for wiring in the Led's and live frogs. And plan to use the BullFrog Control Rod Kit - 18" for the handles and pulls on the fascia.
For more information on the way I plan to set this up please see my web page Turnouts With Benefits
Your explaination is the absolute best I've seen in describing exactly what I want. The only difference is, I want two bi-polar LED's on my control panel, indicating one is green, the other is red for the direction of which way the switch is set.
PLEASE explain to me regarding your diagram for your bi-polar lighting in a bit more detail on wiring. #1 & #8 appears to be set for this kind of purpose of using indication lights ( I assume). Switching the turnout uses which ones???? or do I need to wire them the same way? PLEASE! I've searched all over the web and found no answers to my questions.
In simple turns, please provide a diagram to how to wire the switch machine to the turn out AND using 3mm bi-polar LED's to indicate red or green for direction.
THANK YOU! This is fine, but anyone can also email me personally to rickfickess@yahoo.com