Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Noch Grassmaster

11776 views
15 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    March 2001
  • From: US
  • 21 posts
Noch Grassmaster
Posted by vwrick on Saturday, March 26, 2011 5:56 PM

My sweet wife gave me a Noch Grassmaster for Christmas.  Unfortunately, I have only now been able to try it out.  I watched several videos on-line (the instructions with the tool are VERY sparse); looked simple enough, but unfortunately, results were disappointing.  While the various videos show the grass standing up nicely (the whole idea), the grass I put down looks more like a thatch rather than a standing field.  I thought perhaps the battery was weak, so I tried a new battery - same result.  Any suggestions?  Thanks, Var

Var
  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
  • 13,757 posts
Posted by cacole on Saturday, March 26, 2011 7:27 PM

Are you sure you're using the proper "Static Grass"?  These devices use a special product called static grass and other types won't perform properly.

 

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Bradford, Ontario
  • 15,797 posts
Posted by hon30critter on Saturday, March 26, 2011 8:16 PM

One suggestion I recall from a video about using static grass applicators was to add a little extra glue around the pin that you plug into the surface. I believe the idea was to ensure a good electrical connection between the applicator and the wet glue surface.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    August 2007
  • From: Ohio
  • 101 posts
Posted by WP&P on Saturday, March 26, 2011 11:29 PM

My experience with this device is that you want to have the tool as close as possible to the ground as you apply.  My first few attempts went like yours, with grass that wasn't exactly standing tall.  Once I started hovering about 1/4" over the ground, though, I got the results I was looking for.

We Provide Pride!
  • Member since
    May 2010
  • From: SE. WI.
  • 8,253 posts
Posted by mbinsewi on Sunday, March 27, 2011 11:49 AM

I thought the $160. for the Grassmaster was aliitle pricey, so I started to experiment alittle.  I bought a container of the static grass, ( about $8 or $9 ), applied the glue, sprinkled on the grass, then took a piece of pink styrofoam board, (lots of pieces laying around from my scenery building) rubbed the surface of it briskly with the palm of my hand, which created a static charge, then I waived the piece of foam about an inch or so over the grass area, and.....most of it stood up.  What was not in the glue, came up and stuck to the piece of foam.  It's not a 100%, but it seems to work.  I haven't "tweaked" the procedure yet, but for what little I've done along some yard trackage, I'm satisfied.

Mike.

  • Member since
    March 2001
  • From: US
  • 21 posts
Posted by vwrick on Sunday, March 27, 2011 12:00 PM

Yes, I used the grass supplied with the Noch plus some static grass from Scenic Express - same results with both.

Var
  • Member since
    March 2001
  • From: US
  • 21 posts
Posted by vwrick on Sunday, March 27, 2011 12:03 PM

I will try adding more glue around the nail; also, the 1/4" idea seems interesting.  Also, I recall somewhere seeing someone suggest adding a little moisture to the grass - can't find the reference and am reluctant to muck it up.  Any other ideas (I am also thinking about trying a humidifier in the local area).  I will post a reply once I have tried a few more things.  Thanks, Var

Var
  • Member since
    March 2001
  • From: US
  • 21 posts
Posted by vwrick on Sunday, March 27, 2011 1:41 PM

Adding more glue around the contact nail was not the answer; getting closer does help, but the results are still not anywhere near as nice as what you see in the videos (e.g., Dave Frary).  From close inspection as the grass is deposited, it looks like some of it is coming down at an angle and some vertical (more the former than the latter).  If it hits the glue at anything other than perpendicular, it slowly falls over and gets absorbed into the glue.  I notice in the Noch instructions that they quite naturally extole the properties of their glue - I plan to get some to see if that will help.  So, some progress but still not as nice as what is shown in the pictures and videos.

Var
  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Bradford, Ontario
  • 15,797 posts
Posted by hon30critter on Sunday, March 27, 2011 3:15 PM

Var

Keep going and let us know how you do and what the secret is. I would hope that others with more experience will contribute to the thread.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
    August 2006
  • 1,519 posts
Posted by trainnut1250 on Sunday, March 27, 2011 9:54 PM

Var,

I wonder if your device is working properly.  I don't have a Noch, I built one from plans on line.  Mine is pretty powerful and it is obvious when it is on.  I would imagine that the Noch is strong enough to stand up your grass at a reasonable distance. The videos of it that I have seen seem to confirm that it works much like mine does. 

The problem you are having sounds like it could be an issue with the electrical path not making a circuit either in the gun or in how you are hooking it up.  I have heard that the Noch guns do eat batteries but it sounds as if you have already checked out that option.

Does the grass stand up at all?  There should be an obvious pull from the gun, making the grass stand on end.

Maybe some one with Noch experience will chime in here....

Here are some tips that I learned while using the Grassinator:  I'm sure that you probably saw most of this in the videos but here goes:

Decide where you are going to grass and carefully mask off other areas that you don’t want grass particles. I found the particles migrate quite a distance from the application area.  You can vacuum up the particles but it is better to not have to do this step.  Think Barbershop floor after a long day…The other reason for the masking is that the grassinator sets up quite a strong field and particles of glue covered grass will stray and stick to other objects.  They can be a real pain to remove later (voice of experience).

Vacuum the area to remove any dust or stray particles.  Later, when you vacuum up the excess grass fibers, you can get a clean pile of grass fibers to re-use if the area is free of debris.  At the price of some of the grasses, you will want to collect and re-use.

Load the applicator in a box or container to capture the excess spilled grass generated by this step.

Stick pins into the surface of the area to be “grassed” spaced about every 2 to 3 inches apart.  Try to put these to the side of the area, along the edges.

Paint the area with glue, let it soak for a moment, then reapply the glue mixture.  Make sure that the pins are in contact with the glue as the wet glue completes the electrical path.

Attach the negative clip to the first pin in your area to be grassed. 

Fire up the applicator and hold it with the screen parallel to the surface to be grassed about 1" above the surface.  Shake the applicator and slowly move it back and forth.  Grass will fall to the surface and immediately stand up.  Very cool.  

Keep moving the negative lead to other pins as you slowly fill in the area to be grassed.  As you move farther away from the pins, the static charge gets weaker, hence the pin placement every two or three inches.

When you are satisfied with the look and density of the grass, gently pull out the pins.  Be careful not to push down or touch the grass as it dries.   The pins will pull out chunks of grass if they are not removed before the glue is dry.

When the glue is dry (overnight is best), vacuum up the excess grass.  This is best done with a clean vacuum bag so that you can reuse the grass (I have re-used the grass several times, it works well).

Good luck with the trouble shooting,

Guy

see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site

  • Member since
    May 2009
  • 299 posts
Posted by JSperan on Wednesday, March 30, 2011 6:10 PM

trainnut1250

Var,

I wonder if your device is working properly.

Guy

This was my thought as well.  I watched a video where a guy tested some home made grass applicators against the Noch.  The Noch performed well in the tests but was not the most powerful applicator in the tests.  Even still, it was quite capable of applying standing grass.

As for humidity, the drier the air, the more effective the static charge will be.

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Lugoff, SC
  • 46 posts
Posted by eTraxx on Wednesday, March 30, 2011 6:29 PM

Guy. I have also see suggestion that you can take something like the foot off of a panty hose and slide it into the vacuum hose .. folding the hose opening (panty) back over the hose (vacuum) and taping to collect the excess grass. Ok. Too many hoses there! :)

Edward Traxler L&CRR
  • Member since
    March 2001
  • From: US
  • 21 posts
Posted by vwrick on Thursday, March 31, 2011 7:38 AM

I have learned a lot more since my original post - thanks to all for suggestions (aqnd please keep em comin).  A couple of interesting points:

  • I found the reference to making the environment more humid, particularly adding a small amount of moisture to the static grass before adding to the Grassmaster (I agree, it does seem counterintuitive):  one of my Scenic Express catalogues had a detailed set of application hints in their section for the Grassmaster.  It is a pretty good sequence of hints; I haven't tried it yet but plan to do so.
  • I spoke to the Technical Representative at MicroMark (where Diane got my present) - I asked him if there was a way to "test" the Grassmaster.  He immediately said yes:  take a metal spoon, put some grass in it, attach it to the clip lead, and hold up to the mouth of the Grassmaster (without the grid); it should "pull" the grass into the hopper.  I tried it and it was weak at best; he has agreed to test the unit if I return it to them.  Before I do that, I plan to try the moisture suggestion for completeness.

Stay tuned, I will report more findings, and again, thanks for your help.  Var

Var
  • Member since
    May 2009
  • 299 posts
Posted by JSperan on Thursday, March 31, 2011 9:41 AM

Another test you could try, although some claim it can be detrimental to the circuit, I have not damaged anything so far by doing it.

If you open the flock jar and position the grounding clip within about 1/8 of an inch of the pointed spike in the base of the cup, arcing should take place between the clip and the spike.

You can test the level of static charge present yourself with a home made foil leaf electroscope.  There is a video included with the article linked below that shows this test being done.

Article begins on page 93

Static grass test video on page 102

Electroscope tests on page 121

Static Grass Times 3

  • Member since
    August 2006
  • 1,519 posts
Posted by trainnut1250 on Thursday, March 31, 2011 3:59 PM

Ed, 

Thanks for the tip. 

Btw:  Nice layout site

Guy

see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Trois-Rivieres Quebec Canada
  • 1,063 posts
Posted by jalajoie on Friday, April 1, 2011 2:03 PM

This was made using an home made static grass tool. I use glue, paint and matte medium with exactly the same results. What was best to me was placing the applicator 1/4 inch from the static grass material.

 

Jack W.

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!