Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Grades in N scale

3031 views
8 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Virginia
  • 106 posts
Grades in N scale
Posted by rtprimus on Wednesday, March 16, 2011 7:01 AM

I have never been good at grades, but, I have a idea for my layout that will need a grade to get from one level to the next, and drop back to the first level by way of a helex ( sorry for my spelling, trying to get this down before I head off to work). 

I have about 8 to 10 feet of run to get the line up 12"  On a modeled short line, single track, COULD a N scale steamer make that kind of grade with out to much of a pain in the gears? 

Its not a strat grade, but does kinda snake back and forth for a about 1/2 the run.

Long live the Norfolk & Western and the 611 J class!!!!!
  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Wednesday, March 16, 2011 7:04 AM

12" in 10 feet is a 10% grade. You'd be lucky if the loco could move itself up that steep a grade.

                        --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    January 2008
  • From: Central Georgia
  • 921 posts
Posted by Johnnny_reb on Wednesday, March 16, 2011 8:00 AM

Lookup Helix in the search on the right side of the page

Johnnny_reb Once a word is spoken it can not be unspoken!

My Train Page   My Photobucket Page   My YouTube Channel

  • Member since
    November 2006
  • From: huizen, 15 miles from Amsterdam
  • 1,484 posts
Posted by Paulus Jas on Wednesday, March 16, 2011 10:24 AM

hi, 12 inches in 8 feet.......... and taking vertical easements in consideration, the real grade will turn out to be  17%.

have fun

Paul

Take 2 feet from the length, due to vertical easements, you have 12 inch of heigth in 6 x 12= 72 inches of length. The perc = 12 / 72 * 100

  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Southwest US
  • 12,914 posts
Posted by tomikawaTT on Wednesday, March 16, 2011 11:11 AM

If your proposed track is on a tangent, might I suggest a concealed train elevator?  Either that, or model it as a rack section, with a `low end of the train' rack locomotive helper.  (As far as I know, there are no common-carrier rack railroads in the U.S.  Those currently operating are wheeled mountain goats that carry tourists to mountaintops.)

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Virginia
  • 106 posts
Posted by rtprimus on Thursday, March 17, 2011 3:04 PM

well, after all the feedback I have gotten, and thanks for it, I am still working at the plan I have.  This one part is all I am triping over.

Let me ask, to get a N scale steam, short line train, say, 3 cars in passanger and up to 12 to 15 in freght, what would be the best grade I could get away with to get up 12 inchs in the space I have. 

I have even given the idea of a 2 lap helex to help some.  I just want most of it, say 50% to be in view so it looks like the line is climbing along a rive.

Long live the Norfolk & Western and the 611 J class!!!!!
  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: Johnston, RI
  • 90 posts
Posted by sfcgadget on Thursday, March 17, 2011 4:45 PM

I would say to build in a helix, maybe in a corner, where you could make it look like a mountain. Here is a good site to help you with the math.

http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/helix/percent_grade.htm

 

SFC Gadget (Ret.)
  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Virginia
  • 106 posts
Posted by rtprimus on Saturday, March 19, 2011 7:36 PM

ok, after doing more work on my plan, I am still getting a road block on it.  Let me know you all HOW you would do this...

What I am wroking from is based off the plan, Housatonic Valley Ry that was in the August 2008 issue of Model Railroader.  

http://mrr.trains.com/~/media/import/images/8/4/1/mrr-f0808_houval.ashx?bc=000000&mw=225

What I am trying to do is this, I am streching the right side of it down more and bending it to the left.  Call it a upside letter G.  The part on the right would be a two sided run.  Guess you could say I am trying to get the max run in view as I can.  So, anyone got any help, or atleast able to lend a axe to this rats nest of a spot I am in? haha

Long live the Norfolk & Western and the 611 J class!!!!!
  • Member since
    May 2013
  • 59 posts
Posted by TerryJ on Sunday, March 20, 2011 1:06 PM

Sorry, you can't get there from here?

If you simply have to do it, I'd look at a helix or something similar in the lower left . Depending on the height of your backdrop(sounds like 10-12"), once the helix is complete with scenery it could easily overrun the backdrop height.

The second concern I would have would be the width of the bench work itself. If you're considering passenger cars they may not be able to negotiate a helix based on the bench width. It seems that at 2 feet wide you'll be stuck with a minimum radius somewhere south of 12"(most likely 9.5"), so a lot would depend on your passenger cars. Also consider than an "on layout" mountain would normally taper as it goes up cramping the radius even more. Also consider the logistics of working inside an 18" wide "chimney" to right your cars should something go awry, - unless you build a lift off mountain (which I have dine).

If it were me, I'd consider an off layout helix at the lower left of sufficient radius to accommodate your passenger cars. The cars don't have to look realistic on the curve, but you don't want them straining the limits of practicality either. If you assume a 17" radius helix ( I choose this radius because for practical purposes we can call this 100" per turn) you'll still need a 2% grade +/- for clearance , so six turns. At 2% grade, the rule of thumb tends to be that your train length is halved - assuming a straight line. This brings us to the freight situation - can your single loco pull 30 freight cars on the level? If so, you MIGHT get 15 cars up the helix without helpers.

All that being said, I had an almost identical situation. My back drop height is 14" and I put in the helix off layout. The difference being that I don't run passenger service through the helix and my freight trains are limited to 14 cars without helpers. Of course, the helper set-up just becomes an operating feature.

 

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!