Howdy folks, I need your help real bad. I have had many a hobby over the last 50 years but model railroading has never been one of them till now. After many hours haggling with the wife she has finally agreed to give me a room to work in. With that being said I will never have one of those huge layouts, my town has a big layout if I wanted to join a club to use it, but with my schedule that just doesn't work. I want to start building a small 2' by 8' using a shelf styled layout, and not being very design smart I'm asking you guys for help designing this layout.
Two things I would like to have in this layout, (1) I want to have operations, a reason for the railroad to be there and (2) I want buildings ie scenery in the layout. In the small layouts I seen they're generally too track heavy, or just a puzzle design. I hope this makes sense.
Can you help?
tulsadutch Two things I would like to have in this layout, (1) I want to have operations, a reason for the railroad to be there and (2) I want buildings ie scenery in the layout. In the small layouts I seen they're generally too track heavy, or just a puzzle design. I hope this makes sense.
Operations can be defined in many ways, but the most all-encompassing one is "moving cars and/or trains in a purposeful way" - i.e. trying to simulate that the train or trains does something useful.
Have you settled on a desired modeling scale yet? N scale on an 2x8 foot layout is about the equivalent of a 3.5 foot x 14 foot H0 scale layout - i.e. a lot of room.
A simple design can still be purposeful - have a look at Jack Hill's layout here - a description of an operating session: http://oscalewcor.blogspot.com/2010_10_01_archive.html
Track plan (this is O scale - 10 x 25 foot in O scale is about 3 x 8 feet in N scale):
Smile,Stein
Pay a visit to http://www.carendt.com/microplans/index.html. Then go up to the home page and look through the various semi-monthly scrapbooks. Another good resource for shelf layouts was/is Model Railroad Planning 2003 and 2011 issues. Finally, Lance Mindheim has published a book with a philosophy that emphasizes operations with minimum track.
You didn't say what scale - I'm assuming HO in the following comments. You also didn't say what "want to have operations" means to you. Does it mean switching an industrial zone? Does it mean making/breaking a train in a small yard? Does it mean an engine terminal? Does it mean way freight operations in a small town?
You made it clear you don't want a switching puzzle. Do you know why? Switching puzzles aren't for everyone. But some people find them to be a way to add interest to a small layout. Some find Lance Mindheim's operational style rather boring and contrived. Others definitely prefer it.
What kind of scene are you looking for? Rural? Modern industrial park? 1890s town along the track? Track through a town in the mountains? A seaport? A carferry operation on a lake? All of these have used as themes on small shelf layouts.
For an HO 2x8, cassette staging or removable staging adds a lot to the operating scheme of the layout. Do you have the ability and space to add the temporary extension? The 2ft width adds a lot to the scenic possibilities compared to shallower shelves. Just don't add extra track to fill the extra space.
I'm in a similar position as you. I built a 4x6 layout for a small bedroom. However, the room is used for too many other functions, and the 4x6 dominates the room too much when at the 55 inch height needed to clear a computer work station underneath. So the 4x6 is going to be reduced to a portable test track to set up on a table. The layout will become an L shelf with a 10ft leg and a 7ft leg. There is also a 1ft x 5ft section separated from the 10ft leg by a 5ft wide window that can be spanned during operations by a single track removable section. Closing the loop is out of the question to avoid dominating the room again.
Home layout design is a very individualistic thing. Asking me to design a layout for you will end being a layout that is inclined to my tastes, not yours. A quick read that explains why you need to detail out your vision of a layout is at http://www.chipengelmann.com/trains/Beginner/BeginnersGuide01.html. Oh, and by the way, you didn't mention anything about era or region or prototype preferences. On an 8ft long layout, knowing the length of the equipment you will be running is critical. Iain Rice (a designer of many small layouts) suggests that the longest train length on a shelf should be between 1/4 and 1/3 the length of the shelf for looks, operation, and layout design. Every inch counts on a short shelf when laying out runaround tracks and spur lengths.
hope this helps your thinking
Fred W
Welcome to the forums and to model railroading.
In your space I would be another vote for N scale. There is a growing amount of buildings and rolling stock, in both kits and assembled available.
My suggestion for a design would be continuous run (loop) with a scenic divider, so your trains have a place to go (out of sight). From there you have some choices to make.
You can choose to have the divider near the center and have a small yard with industries to serve on each side. One or two people can operate, each having a small yard to switch.
The other suggestion is to move the divider closer to the back and just have several staging tracks (2 ended) where trains can meet or pass, varying the trains entering the front. In the front you could have a more complex yard and group of industries to serve. A swithching layout, with staging.
Just my ideas.
Have fun,
Richard
Thanks for the replies so far, I guess that I did forget a couple of things. My preferred scale is HO, my space is probably good enough for N but my eyes are not.
My era to be in the early to mid 1960's. I grew up in Ramona,Oklahoma and watched the Frisco come and go with goods and freight for the Phillips 66 Oil Company plus an occassional passenger consist. I orginally dreamed of having a layout that would work in a small city after dark delivering the goods needed to support life in a small town but never knew how to do it.
I guess what I dislike about puzzles is that they are often "fill the empty spot" games. I have tried on the computer Inglenook and timesaver layouts, they're fun but after a few minutes they are boring to me. That may just be due to myself not being inventive enough.
I, too, am building a 2X8 layout, although I am using On30 scale. I like the detail at that scale, and narrow gauge has a LOT of potential, in my book.
Regardless, do an online search for the "Gum Stump & Snowshoe." It's a GREAT bookshelf idea with many options. The fellow in England whose site name I can't remember did an HO variant on a 12" by 7 foot area. With an extra 12" in depth, you have much more opportunities for scenery, extra track, etc.
There is absolutely NO reason you can't have fun in a small space, and a 2X8 foot seems to me to be a nice area in which to play.
Respects,
My layout consists of a 2x8 switching area and a staging shelf along another wall with a rural run between them. So from an operational perspective, we're talking the same thing. My 2x8 area is based on the Galveston Wharves play from the early 80s in MR (I think it's been released on one of their recent track plan books). I've liked this switching track plan so much, it's the second version I've done of it, the first being a 1x5 N scale version while in the service. The first version was done pretty much to plan, but in the current HO version, I've simplified it down a bit to fit the rural town concept I'm modeling now.
hi
You can find the Galveston Wharves Terminal in 101 MORE Track Plans, # 63.
The use of a cassette is important; it gives you a longer drill track and you can use it for staging.
A different approach for about the same space
With a yard added at the right, in stead of a cassette, i "completed" the DOCKSIDER, a design by Lance Mindheim. (this plan is 15 X 2 !!!)
Paul
Howdy again,
The response I've recieved so far has been great and I thought I'd tell you what I've been looking at. I was sent a link to a site for a Federal Street layout http://www.xclent.freeuk.com/p87/fedst1.htm
This site shows a layout 2' wide by 16' long in 2 sections, it is longer than my 2 by 8 allotted space but I was thinking how about a double level 2 by 8. Another layout I saw was the switchmans nightmare layout. Both Federal Street and Switchmans seem to offer a possibility of operations but in switchmans case its track heavy with no scenery. I am leaning toward a version of Fed. St. only because I can see it scenic'd due to the pics but I have no idea how to make it a dual level layout within the confines of my space.
I really do appriciate your ideas and the layout ideas given so far.
Howdy again again,
Well I found an interesting trackplan and it kind of fits with my space, its a 2' by 16' layout by David Barrow but unlike Fed. St. it is already broken up into 2 2' by 8' modules but seems to be once again track heavy with little more than background buildings or backdrops. One thing that I have really enjoyed is scratch building structures so I have to have structures on the layout. Is it possible for someone to redesign this layout giving me the structures and operations both? I will say that I've become really excited in the last couple of days about having the layout of my dreams become a reality with your help. Thanks!
IndustryYard.pdf
SouthPlains.pdf
Mmm - H0, small town in Oklahoma, local freight switching, early to mid 1960s. Absolutely doable in 2x8 feet.
This is e.g. a small 6.5 x 2 foot switching layout in H0 scale inspired by the Jack Hill layout mentioned above - it could always be stretched out to 8 feet of length, and made less track heavy by deleting one of the industry spurs at "United Recycling":
If you have the option of adding a removable section - say 3 foot long, you could even do a small town with a double ended yard - where the switching lead is detachable - as in Paul's sketches:
There are lots of options available.
Think some more about your goals - why do you want a layout? Is it building houses and scenery you like? Running trains? Working with electronics? Painting and weathering cars and engines?
Is it important to you that it looks like some specific place? What do you want to be able to do on your layout? Can you use removable extensions while running?
Stuff like that.
tulsadutch ....it is longer than my 2 by 8 allotted space but I was thinking how about a double level 2 by 8......I am leaning toward a version of Fed. St. only because I can see it scenic'd due to the pics but I have no idea how to make it a dual level layout within the confines of my space.
....it is longer than my 2 by 8 allotted space but I was thinking how about a double level 2 by 8......I am leaning toward a version of Fed. St. only because I can see it scenic'd due to the pics but I have no idea how to make it a dual level layout within the confines of my space.
If you read Iain Rice's Kalmbach book on small layout design, he discusses linking modules vertically. Rice took Armstrong's vertical turnout ideas and modified them to use with train cassettes.
I was planning a similar dual level 7ft shelf when I got transferred again. One level would be an HOn3 narrow gauge line based on the Gum Stump & Snowshoe design. The other level would be a narrow gauge to standard gauge transfer facility. Movement between the 2 levels would be by 30" long train cassette.
To successfully split a layout into 2 levels, there should be only a single track connection between the two layout sections. If there is more than one track connection, making the vertical move between levels becomes quite complex.
With a single track connection between the 2 levels, several methods are practical. Manually lifted train cassettes will work, as will a train elevator. A vertical turnout is a less practical possibility. And a helix obviously won't fit.
Your Federal St plan has a 2 track connection between the two sections (which are of unequal size). A two track connection is doable with elevator or cassettes, but is not as simple to build or engineer for reliable track alignment at each level. Reality is that two levels seldom gain you twice as much layout as a single level. If I were splitting a plan between 2 levels, I would aim low on my 1st attempt. A single track connection between two 6ft long layout sections expanded to 8ft would be much simpler to plan and build.
my thoughts, your choices
Howdy,
Well I want to say thanks so far for your help, one of you sent me a layout that is just too good to pass up. I deleted the email and checking on the posts its not there but I have to pic so I do have the layout. If I could figure out how to post a pic I will upload it in a message. Its a wonderful 2' by 8 1/2' long layout, its a rendition of the Federal St. layout. I can also see adding a cassette on one end to allow a train to exit the layout. I knew that if I asked you guys would give me the layout I could never come up with myself.
Thanks
hi Tulsa dutch
you have picked a layout, i wish you lots of success.
The plan needs a lot of special track work, not my choice for a first layout. And the width is not realistic. As for as I know this layout is operated from the back at shows, and the industries have tracks beyond the visible part of the layout. The real width is just under 3 feet.
Coupling and uncoupling won't be easy from the front, especially since most tracks are curved. Being able to be behind the layout during operation might be a condition.
Or do you mean this one? A design by Stein from Norway.
or my adaption