I have read over the years that it is a good idea to file the points on the turnout. This supposedly makes derailments less likely. What is your opinion or experience? Have any of you tried to file the points after they had been installed? How did that work out? I am having a few problems with the steam locomotives going through some of the turnouts. The diesels do not seem to have the same problem. So, I am looking for a solution.
Craig North Carolina
Yes, most turnouts could use it, and most should have it done, particularly those you buy unless they are well-made by professionals or skilled amateurs.
And yes, I have felt the need to improve their function by filing them after installation. The way you do that is to place a small piece of scale stripwood, a wooden match, even a plastic HO tie with the spike heads filed off, between the open point and the adjacent stock rail. Then, you take a small needle file and begin to file the point's inner face with a gentle repeated filing stroke. The idea is to get it essentially razor sharp, but that won't help if the point rail can't get much closer to the stock rail. When it is fully closed, the point should not only be sharp enough not to make contact with the flange sufficiently to make it jump upward or deflect in an unwanted way, but it has to lie tightly against the stock rail for clearances/gauge reasons.
Sometimes the problem isn't the point so much as the gauge, and it is often the case that a sloppy hinge further back the closure rail is the culprit. If it allows the point to tilt, it may be enough that passing flanges are caught.
Yet another thing to watch for is turnouts that are not properly bedded so that the blocks near the throwbar sag and allow the throwbar to sag with them. When that happens, the top edge of the point dips enough that the flanges can't possibly make the needed cam-action contact and that wheel will not be directed properly. Happened to me a couple of times until I figured out what was going on.
Crandell
Adding to Crandell's excellent advice:
If you don't have needle files (or other, somewhat larger, files) you can use an emory board (that thing ladies use to keep their nails in trim) to put a proper sharp end on a point.
If the point is razor sharp, but still doesn't make proper contact with the stock rail, it is possible to bend it very slightly outward. Points are supposed to be straight, but some have a distinct curve that works against making a flange-tight contact. NOTE!! "Very slightly," means a degree or two, not a sharp kink. Also, maintaining the proper track gauge is absolutely critical. If your NMRA gauge says things are too tight (or too loose) find out why and fix the problem NOW.
So, do I practice what I preach? The points on my hand-laid specialwork have a side view like a butter knife and make positive, tight contact with the stock rails. Running fingers along the rails into a facing-point switch is guaranteed to draw blood...
Chuck (Modleing Central Japan in September, 1964)
Agreed, sharp points are good to have, but before filing them, take a really good look at the entire contact length of point rail at its non-moving stock rail. Your NMRA track gauge is essential for checking the gauge.
I had 2 turnouts that passed (heavier) diesels without problems, but made my somewhat lighter steamers buck and occasionally derail. After destroying a turnout with aggressive filing, I noticed that it was the heel of the point that was out of gauge, caused by the stock rail having slid so the mfgr's notch in that rail no longer accommodated the heel.The weight of the diesels must have been pushing the offending rail down, while the steamers wouldn't.
The rail must have slipped by being banged lengthwise in the box or when pushing it into a tight rail joiner. The movement likely happened here, as I check all the turnout specs when they come into the house. It was a simple job to tap it back and put a daub of CA glue on it to keep it where it belonged.
Somewhat smarter, I now recheck after installing them...
- George
Are you a blackbelt?
I file the points and undercut the stock rail for the point when lined up for the diverging route. I also check the guardrail to make sure it keeps the wheels from picking up the points. If it can't keep the wheels from picking, I shim the guardrail usually with .010 stock. Of course the guardrail check/shim, points filing and stock rail undercut are more successful if the wheels are in gage. So checking that first is normal process if only 1 piece of equipment is experiencing problems.
Richard
Hi!
I've been filing the points for some years, and did all the turnouts on my under construction HO layout. The thing is, you want to angle or "round" off those 90 degree edges of the two point rails. In my experience, it only takes a few swipes with a needle file to get the job done. Yes, sometimes I forgot and did it after the turnout was in place. That's a little more difficult, but not that big of a deal.
Typically diesels will have much fewer derailments - as opposed to steamers - over the same trackage. One reason is the diesel axles all have significant weight riding on them. Lead or trailing trucks of steamers usually have only the weight of the trucks themselves - making them quite light and easy to bounce up and off the track.
Another reason that steamers derail more is that they can have much longer wheelbases, making it difficult for smooth rolling over changes in track direction - be it vertical or horizontal. In doing my track testing, my most critical judge is a BLI 2-10-4 loco. If it can manuever forwards and backwards at both slow and fast speeds, the trackage is probably going to handle anything.
One experience I had (Atlas code 100 turnouts) was that the points tended to spread under the weight of the loco. You can test this by checking for side to side movement with your fingers.
The best piece of advice I can give is keep working at the derailment problem until it is solved. Do not take a "good enough" attitude about it, for it will surely bug you for the life of the layout.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
I've NEVER done this on Atlas turnouts.
And my trains do NOT derail. Unless I forget to line the switch correctly.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Well.....
Aren't YOU special!
selector Well..... Aren't YOU special! Crandell
LOL! My thoughts exactly.
Of the 100 switches I have, only the 25 or so Pecos didn't require much adjustment, all the Atlas and Shinoharas did.
Jay
C-415 Build: https://imageshack.com/a/tShC/1
Other builds: https://imageshack.com/my/albums
Let me bring D50380 (with the touchy tender and featherweight lead truck) and my string of derailment-prone disasters over and we'll see if that claim holds up
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Bring'em on, but my secret to derailment-free running is that I use free-rollign metal wheels in every piece f rollign stock, I use ONLY Kadee couplers, all at the proper height and witht he trip pin properly adjusted, I try to keep all cars at the proper weight although I do have some light ones, and I make sure none of the trucks are screwed on too tight.
I have indeed NEVER had to make ny sort of modification to any Atlas turnout. When there were cars that bumped - I found the wheels to be out of gauge, NOT the turnout, every single time. I do not understand the outright hate for Atlas track components - sure the code 100 is a but crude, but the 83 is not. Painted and ballasted, you can't tell. The springiness of the flex track makes it FAR easier to form smooth curves with than the other brands that are stiff, and kinks on curves are a guarantee of derailment. Every one of several dozen code 83 turnouts I've used to far has been just fine, the points stay tightly closed since I use either Tortoises or servos. This also tends to not break them over time like slamming back and forth with a solenoid motor tends to do.
I even had one I attempted to solder a frog wire to, and all I succeeded in doing was popping the entire frog casting loose. I ended up putting some CA on the bottom of it and pressing it back into place, and it ran for over a year until I tore down that layout. I've even run 60's era Rivarossi locos that have such deep flanges they end up riding on the spike heads without a problem, although those not at the 'warp speed' I use for testing.
I don;t think I do anythign special, I solder joints on curves to prevent kinking, but leave the rest float. I use adhesive caulk to fasten the track. For tangent sections I sight down the track to align it. That's pretty much it. I take my time, I don;t race to see if I can get 100 feet of track down in an evening. And I check all rolling stock and power as above.
I have two ovals with a double crossover for appearances only as I never cross over
I am getting tired of the derailments It is usually the cables causing the tender to screw up
The crossovers are coming out
Just 2 simple ovals running 2 trains
51% share holder in the ME&O ( Wife owns the other 49% )
ME&O
I have to agree with Randy. I have many turnouts on my layout, combination of Walthers #8 and Atlas #6 and all are as they came out of the box. During an ops session with up to 20 operators, we'll run well over 1,000 cars and nary a derailment caused by a switch. All cars are like Randy's - proper weight, kadee couplers, free rolling metal wheels. If you have "derailment prone" cars or locos, fix those.
Larry
http://www.youtube.com/user/ClinchValleySD40
http://www.flickr.com/photos/52481330@N05/
http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showgallery.php/cat/500/page/1/ppuser/8745/sl/c
Hi,I did'n know about this thread when I posted a story about my problems with a Tillig double-slip switch, about an hour ago.It contains a bit about points filing in place, so if you want to read more about it, check out the thread:
" Problems with Tillig Elite DKW II double-slip switch "
sverk