Hi Everyone,
I get the point about the fixed frog.
I guess what I was trying to convey is that by cutting off some of the divergent track, you can affect the angle of the track connecting to the divergent track. That makes it a lot easier to adapt the turnout to otherwise makes for an awkward fit in certain instances. But, as you all have pointed out, unless you mess with the frog, you are not changing the angle of the frog so you aren't really changing a #4 to a #5, or a #6 to a #7.
Oh well, just a thought.
Rich
Alton Junction
Fast Tracks ones use a straight frog, pretty sure the CV kits do as well. In no case does flexing the turnout alter the frog angle. Nor does any sort of trimming off excess track ahead of the points or after the frog. With the CV flexible turnouts, what they mean is the whole thing can be curved - as in a curved turnout, not that the frog angle is freeform and you can bend it to any angle you want - now that would really be something if someone could figure out a way to make that work reliably. One size fits all turnout! Any frog angle, straight or curved turnout!
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Rich, Central Valley are not only smarter, but more importantly, they were also firster.
A turnout's common designation is a number that represents a fixed variable in turnout engineering, and that would be the frog angle. Once it is poured, bored, machined, hammered, annealed, welded....whatever they do, once it is handed off to the road gang to set in place, that frog is it, and it gets a number.
What I have been discussing is that, just after crossing over the frog on the way out the diverging route...leaving from the points end and crossing the frog outward, that can be shortened and you can even bend in a slight angle. But you can also do that to the through route after the frog. In either case, a teensy bit of a curve goes a looong way. I would be talking about a 2 degree angle drawn from the frog end (where one normally finds insulating gaps in the frog rails), and what comes after to the end of the turnout itself as a monolithic appliance.
Fiddling with a frog is not for the faint of heart, nor for the foolhardy. I believe I have read that some have done some filing and filling, and maybe one can generate a bit of a curve in a frog, but even the commercially produced ones are reputed to use their straight frogs in curved frogs. The Fast Tracks ones and Central Valley? No idea, I have never watched those videos, nor used the jigs. Instead, by the time I had hammered out six straight #8's and a couple of #6 double-slips, I figured I could build anything with some care and time.
Crandell
richhotrain The point has been made many times recently, on this forum, that the divergent track of a turnout may be cut down a little to broaden the angle, effectively changing a #4 turnout to a #6 turnout or better, changing a #6 turnout to a #7 turnout or better, etc.
The point has been made many times recently, on this forum, that the divergent track of a turnout may be cut down a little to broaden the angle, effectively changing a #4 turnout to a #6 turnout or better, changing a #6 turnout to a #7 turnout or better, etc.
That doesn't change the angle of the turnout at all. It simply allows you to begin to curve the diverging track sooner. Big difference.
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I'm very confused by your suggestion and statements.
The # of a turnout is set by the frog angle, not by the diverging path after the frog. All non-curved HO commerical turnouts with numbered straight frogs have straight track following the frog. Cutting back the diverging path allows one to start a curve closer to the frog, which effectively reduces the substitution radius of the turnout. None of this has any impact on the closure rail radius (the curve between the points and frog), the length of the points, or the frog angle. All of these remain exactly the same as before the cutting back of the diverging path.
If one "curves" a normal turnout by putting a curve in the straight path in the same direction as the diverging path, the closure rail radius of the curved path is reduced. But the frog and the points remain the same. The same is true for "straightening" an existing curved turnout - the closure rail radius is increased, but the frog angle and the length of the points remain the same.
Model turnout frogs are either cast or soldered together for strength, and to hold the specified frog angle and the required tolerances at the throat and in the flangeways. Changing the frog angle requires extensive rebuilding or total replacement of the frog.
If you want a different frog angle, you have to build or buy it.
just my thoughts and experiences
Fred W
Well,at first thought the diverging track could be like flex track but the tie length and placement is different on switches than other track in that they vary depending on the angle and some ties go under both tracks. I suppose it could be done though.
I use Fast Tracks turnouts that a guy builds for me and in some situations to get something custom I have unsodered rail on the PC ties, moved them or replaced them and resoldered them, making sure everything is still in gauge. I would build them myself but he does a great job and doesn't charge me a whole lot more than the retail on say Walthers turnouts. I also need plenty rail aizes 55, 70, 83 and 100 and many different turnout sizes from 4 to 10 plus curved and crossovers (not crossings.) I canspend more time on other things on the layout and let him do what he does best.
richhotrain The point has been made many times recently, on this forum, that the divergent track of a turnout may be cut down a little to broaden the angle, effectively changing a #4 turnout to a #6 turnout or better, changing a #6 turnout to a #7 turnout or better, etc. This is an important point that should not be overlooked if handlaying turnouts is not your forte. In fact, the same thing can be done to curved turnouts. Which got me to thinking, why doesn't some smart engineer invent a turnout with a flex track divergent track to permit unlimited flexibility in setting the angle? Crandell, you're smart. Why don't you do it? Rich
The point has been made many times recently, on this forum, that the divergent track of a turnout may be cut down a little to broaden the angle, effectively changing a #4 turnout to a #6 turnout or better, changing a #6 turnout to a #7 turnout or better, etc. This is an important point that should not be overlooked if handlaying turnouts is not your forte.
In fact, the same thing can be done to curved turnouts.
Which got me to thinking, why doesn't some smart engineer invent a turnout with a flex track divergent track to permit unlimited flexibility in setting the angle?
Crandell, you're smart. Why don't you do it?
I think something like this has already been invented. See Central Valley Model Works curvable turnout kits, items 210-2571 through 210-2982 in the walthers catalog starting here: http://www.walthers.com/exec/search?quick=210.
If you want to change the diverging angle of a conventional turnout, you can just cut through the switch ties that connect between the straight route and the diverginging route past the frog. Then just gently bend the diverging route to where you want it.
Note that you are not really changing the frog angle if you do this. That angle is machined into the frog itself. All you're really doing is sharpening (decreasing) the radius of the diverging track beyond the frog.