Yup, I agree - turntables are an eye catcher, even if there is no absolute need to have them. Actually, it does not even make much sense on that layout, if you don´t have a second one.
Paulus Jas hi doughless, he does not need any engine terminal at all. All depends on the situation, the engine facilities could be just further down the line, and steamers can run backwards; distance might be the issue. Since this layout is freelanced, its up to the owner; BTW he has bought the TT already. paul
hi doughless,
he does not need any engine terminal at all.
All depends on the situation, the engine facilities could be just further down the line, and steamers can run backwards; distance might be the issue. Since this layout is freelanced, its up to the owner; BTW he has bought the TT already.
paul
You gotta have a turntable, it just looks cool, and it has its practical advantages.
Rich
Alton Junction
Nicely done Paul. Very sleek.
One question from a modern diesel guy here, would there need to be a turntable in the right side town too? I guess it depends on how many miles a steam loco would be willing to run tender-first to travel back to the left side and how many miles the layout is suppossed to represent.
- Douglas
Paul,
I already had thought, that "my" plan was pretty good, but this one ...
I am just awed!
I remember you are using RTS/Winrail - mind to send me the file at my private e-mail address?
hi Ulrich
a rough sketch
Paul, that´d be very kind of you!
Rich - I know Cuyama´s web page well. I was this article, which made me think twice about switchbacks.
Here is an interesting article, with illustrations, on the pros and cons of switchbacks on model railroads:
http://www.layoutvision.com/id16.html
hi ulrich
is no problem at all,
just use the most right track as a main, you'll need to change the crossover from RH to LH, and the cassette will function as drill track; with both spurs facing North.
if you like, I'll draw it for you
have fun
smile
Paul
Rich,
in the back of my head, I had the idea to trade the houses for another industry, just to add more operational interest. Put a boxcar on that spur, and things will get a little tight.
That´s my only (still more fictional) concern. I am not at all against having some "bottlenecks" on a layout - add to the challenge!
Sir Madog There are some points which may get my attention - I am not really happy with the switchback operation to serve the Wheaton´s Feed spur.
There are some points which may get my attention - I am not really happy with the switchback operation to serve the Wheaton´s Feed spur.
Ulrich,
Your objection to the switchback operation to serve the Wheaton´s Feed spur interests me.
Looking at your drawing, it appears that there is enough room on the switching lead to accomodate the engine and trailing cars without requiring more than one maneuver to place the cars on the industrial spur.
The switchback certainly appears to another element of interest to the overall operation.
Is your objection attributable to operational complexities or do you have other concerns?
the guy already bought it kit for the turntable, so it is a must-have . At least it is a sign that he is serious about building it (and maybe I can partake a little).
At this stage, I can exclude the run around option for him, but as there is still some space to the "south" left in the designated train room, it would not be much of an affair to extend the layout to become a "roundy-rounder".
2 remarks:
I would not be afraid for the switchback, the cassette is making the tail long enough.
You might have seconds thoughts about the turntable. Operationally it does not add much, i would prefer a small yard. With a turntable that small, a little extension in the room would create sufficient space for both.
As it is, its a lovely design, quite build-able; and fun to operate.
Are you sure your friend does not want a continuous run option?
Glad to see that the engine house location got worked into the final plan.
I take pleasure in playing at least some small part in the overall design.
Kudos to all who came up with ideas and suggestions.
Your initial floor plan helped immensely to visualize the work space.
Yesterdays discussion with my friend resulted in a general acceptance of the plan as it now stands. Of cause, a little more tweaking had to be done, but only small changes needed to be done. The changes are:
There are some points which may get my attention - I am not really happy with the switchback operation to serve the Wheaton´s Feed spur. But that issue may be solved once construction commences.
I´d better call this a pre-final plan now
Thanks for all your help!
Sorry, been at work all day and just got to this. The original track plan was published in MR something like 1982 and then republished by Kalmbach in a book, Building a Model Railroad with Personality. The original track plan was for a 4x8 with 2x6 port, but could be unfolded into a point to point shelf layout easily. For a 4x8 he didn't overload it with track and let the western scenary do the talking.
Doughless,
I need to talk this plan over with my friend, before I start to make major changes. I can follow your reasoning, but can he?
Just because yesterday was Columbus Day - I am not setting out to find a western route to India, only to end up in the Americas , so I want to have some clear directions from him now. After all, I have spend some 20+ hrs on the design, for which I am not getting paid
Ulrich:
Just to try something: Could you adapt Paulus' idea for using the middle of the room for the cassette? Would your friend go for using that space only when running the layout?
If so, have the cassette come off the left hand side, where the turn table is now, so it sticks into the middle of the room. You'll have to do a mirror reverse flip of the plan and interchange, but that would give you a longer cassette. The alcove where the feed store is now would be ideal for the turntable and possible engine house.
Kind of a major redesign using your software, but since were playing around anyway.......
Sir Madog jmbjmb - do you know where I could find the track plan of it? I am always looking for well designed layouts as a source of inspiration. I did some more tweaking on the track plan - it is now coming close to what I had envisioned it to be. Open questions are still: Engine house Cassette staging - I am not really with the lead to it and the length of it More tweaking to come!
jmbjmb - do you know where I could find the track plan of it? I am always looking for well designed layouts as a source of inspiration.
I did some more tweaking on the track plan - it is now coming close to what I had envisioned it to be.
Open questions are still:
More tweaking to come!
From your drawing, it looks like you could quite nicely fit a 2-stall engine house under the livestock pens facing the turntable.
I haven't done any sketching, but perhapsOlson's Jerome & Southwestern could be unfolded to fit the space. The "port" could be made the fit in the little 24x75 alcove on the lower right, and then perhaps both the main and mining branch could be unfolded to fit along the other two walls.
as usual, your ideas are really smashing! I like the idea of the added board very much, but I don´t think he could go for it. The future train room also sees other uses and that board would block any access.
I have put your plan into my idea box!
i've drawn a plan with some ideas
All are indicated in the drawing.
I like both your design and Stein's very much.
... there ain´t nothin´ sweeter than a good taste of moonshine
I am still working on the plan to incorporate some changes, but I have already added a place called "Saguaro Liquors" .
Btw, the plan is drawn in WinRail/RTS, and I have "abused" the draw function to add the buildings and structures, as well as to enhance the layout a little. The only "drawback" is, that it takes some time to draw the individual elements.
Thanks Ulrich, glad I can help
More specifically for the left side: I would put a large industry in the far SW corner of the benchwork. Shift the cattle pens and spur towards the edge and maybe angle the siding so the turntable is in the SE corner. Having the industry that generates the most traffic in the SW corner would maximize the run for those cars.
Since your friend thinks of the SW as the wild, wild, west; how about a distillery as that industry? :-)
VERY good ideas! I am not happy with the road overpass myself, I will change it to a dry creek with a wooden trestle over it. I also agree with removing the building on the top right of the layout. I need to make that section a little narrower, as this parts needs to be removable. There are windows behind this part, which may require an occasional cleaning
The cassette staging is meant to be put on any of those three tracks at the lower right end, so that should not be a big issue.
Thanks for your comments!
Hope I can help with some thoughts:
If the cassette is to represent interchange/staging, I would have more switches in the left side town in order to require most of the cars to travel the length of the layout to reach the busier town. Maybe just add one larger industry there at the expense of some of the general town structures.
Also, the track that the cassette feeds into could merge with the runaround a lot earlier than it does. As it stands, it looks like you'll have to run the train almost around the curve at the top in order to clear the switch to access the runaround, what you'll need to do to swich the elevator if the locomotive is pulling the train out of staging. (Or you could just shift the cassette one or two tracks to the right, which will give you a longer switch lead too if the cassette is included.)
There's a chance the building at the top section may clutter the scene. Someone suggested keeping that section scenery-only in order to separate the towns better. I agree. With a building there, the layout might start to look like one big town and you may lose the sense of distance, if that's what you're going for. To keep operations interesting, maybe you could leave the switch and model an industry that goes beyond the layout. There's plenty of room there for a hillside to hide the end of the spur.
I think a geographic barrier, like valley and dry river bed crossing, in the left corner would separate the towns a bit better than a road overpass. Or, maybe you could make the entire top side of the layout a large deep valley with a high trestle, which would give your friend (or even you) a scratchbuilding project.
Just some ideas.
After a lengthy conversation with my friend, I was able to pin down some more druthers about his planned layout.
He definitively wants to have a certain "Western" flavor to his layout (as much as people in the US think of "Lederhosen and Beer" when Germany is mentioned, Germans think of gunslingers, desperadoes and Western movies, when the think of the US ).
This pretty much determines the setting and the era of the layout.
This is what I have come up with this morning:
Still needs a lot of tweaking, so comments are highly welcomed!
Sir Madog Stein - I very much like your idea, because it could mean a "slow start" for him, building a diorama/module (the right part) and expand it later on - will talk to him about that. Is it Peco code 75 track?
Stein - I very much like your idea, because it could mean a "slow start" for him, building a diorama/module (the right part) and expand it later on - will talk to him about that. Is it Peco code 75 track?
Yup.
Smile, Stein