From the point of view of someone with 60+ years in the hobby: Your basic benchwork should be lower than your lowest track level. Use as few cross-pieces as possible consistent with keeping the wall-side lateral frame and the aisle-side frame at the chosen distance at any particular point. Support should be 2x4" legs.
Use vertical risers at each cross-piece to support the sub-roadbed; 2-3" for the lowest level of track. This will allow scenery below track level, such as canyons, streambeds, culverts, and basic ground contours. Allow 3" minimum width for sub-roadbed so scenery can be supported or fastened to it on either side of the track roadbed. This can be increased where double track is to be used. Use broader sub-roadbed only where there is a yard of multiple trackage at the same level.
Keep the underside of your benchwork as open as possible; numerous cross-pieces will get in your way after the scenery is in place, and everything must be reachable from beneath. This is particularly true for switch-machines. Leave as much open space around each one as possible; they will fail after a time, no matter what brand you use. Plan on easy access from below to all machines and wiring.
I made the mistake of cluttering my basic benchwork with numerous cross-pieces that get in the way of maintenance-from-underneath. I would spare newcomers from that problem; if you live, you will grow old, and less able to perform contortionist tricks in reaching items needing repair or maintenance. I learned this the hard way, so I intend to start my next layout at a younger age.
richhotrain JTG: dante: JTG: You don't have to worry about warping. A word of caution: hollow core doors are actually notorious for warping unless they are well-sealed on all sides and edges, and/or in your application, well-braced with other framing/stiffener members. Dante Huh. That's a new one on me. (I'm not saying it ain't so, just that I never heard of anyone having that problem.) I'm new to using doors (about 5 months), but one of the reasons I chose this approach was that I had read repeatedly that doors were more or less warp-resistant. According to the pros, hollow core doors are less subject to warping and twisting than solid wood doors. http://www.homeconstructionimprovement.com/hollow-core-solid-core-door-debate/ Rich
JTG: dante: JTG: You don't have to worry about warping. A word of caution: hollow core doors are actually notorious for warping unless they are well-sealed on all sides and edges, and/or in your application, well-braced with other framing/stiffener members. Dante Huh. That's a new one on me. (I'm not saying it ain't so, just that I never heard of anyone having that problem.) I'm new to using doors (about 5 months), but one of the reasons I chose this approach was that I had read repeatedly that doors were more or less warp-resistant.
dante: JTG: You don't have to worry about warping. A word of caution: hollow core doors are actually notorious for warping unless they are well-sealed on all sides and edges, and/or in your application, well-braced with other framing/stiffener members. Dante
JTG: You don't have to worry about warping.
You don't have to worry about warping.
A word of caution: hollow core doors are actually notorious for warping unless they are well-sealed on all sides and edges, and/or in your application, well-braced with other framing/stiffener members.
Dante
Huh. That's a new one on me. (I'm not saying it ain't so, just that I never heard of anyone having that problem.) I'm new to using doors (about 5 months), but one of the reasons I chose this approach was that I had read repeatedly that doors were more or less warp-resistant.
According to the pros, hollow core doors are less subject to warping and twisting than solid wood doors.
http://www.homeconstructionimprovement.com/hollow-core-solid-core-door-debate/
Rich
As a "pro" with over 50 years' experience, I disagree with that aspect of the advice on that web site; also, the notion that the hollow core doors take paint better (paintability is affected by the surface, not the core).
In any case, if you use hollow core doors, I stand by my advice to seal them all over to mitigate any chance of warping.
NILE Can you do that? Put the foam right on top of the benchwork?
Can you do that? Put the foam right on top of the benchwork?
One thing to keep in mind about foam-on-benchwork is that trains running across it will be louder due to the "drumhead" effect. This may or may not be an issue, since what is "too noisy" will vary from person to person. Some people can't tolerate it, others aren't bothered at all. Your call.
On my layout, I have track running from an existing set of shelves with foam-over-plywood to a new section of shelves with foam-on-benchwork. Before gluing everything down, I ran a test to see what the noise was really like. What was annoying to me was the change in volume of a train going from one case to the other the case, and not the volume of one case or the other alone. So I took a step back and put 1/4" lauan over the benchwork in the new section to dampen the sound.
NILE I have been thinking/planning how I am going to build a model train layout with rolling hills. No mountains in Michigan, but there is some contour to the earth.
I have been thinking/planning how I am going to build a model train layout with rolling hills. No mountains in Michigan, but there is some contour to the earth.
This is the approach I'm taking modeling the Saginaw Valley, which is dead flat except near the rivers. A sureform tool does a nice job putting those subtle elevation changes into the foam. Just make sure you have a shop vac handy for those pinkalicious shavings!
Instead of heavy 2x4's and crooked 2x2's, you can make legs like L girders. I use a 1x2 and a 1x3 glued on edge to make an L. I use a small chunk of 2x2 at the bottom to take a levelling foot. It doesn't matter if the 8 foot length of 2x2 is twisted up - every one I find around here is - since you cut off 4-6" lengths at a time. The result is an extremely sturdy yet lightweight leg with a place to attach cross braces in both directions.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I built my small HO layout of foam over an open grid of 1x3's set on 12 inch centers. I wanted a light weight easy to carry/move {in the future}layout. It's not like I'm going to climb on top my layout.
I used 2x4s for legs and mounted wheels on the bottom so I can roll it out from the wall if need be.
If I had to do it over again I might put 1/4" luan on the frame then mount the foam on top the luan.
I say that only because I may in the future wnat undermount switch controllers and would need something to mount them to that is sturdy.
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
Don Z Here's my take on it...2x2 legs? Spindly and crooked before you know it...2x4 legs? Clunky, but functional....my solution? Glue up some hard maple, chuck it into the lathe and make some real legs...capable of holding up whatever you throw on top of them. Add cherry stringers for contrast... Don Z.
Here's my take on it...2x2 legs? Spindly and crooked before you know it...2x4 legs? Clunky, but functional....my solution? Glue up some hard maple, chuck it into the lathe and make some real legs...capable of holding up whatever you throw on top of them. Add cherry stringers for contrast...
Don Z.
Congratulations, Don Z:
That may be the most elegant layout base that I have ever laid my eyes on !
Alton Junction
JTG dante: JTG: You don't have to worry about warping. A word of caution: hollow core doors are actually notorious for warping unless they are well-sealed on all sides and edges, and/or in your application, well-braced with other framing/stiffener members. Dante Huh. That's a new one on me. (I'm not saying it ain't so, just that I never heard of anyone having that problem.) I'm new to using doors (about 5 months), but one of the reasons I chose this approach was that I had read repeatedly that doors were more or less warp-resistant.
Research; it's not just for geeks.
dante JTG: You don't have to worry about warping. A word of caution: hollow core doors are actually notorious for warping unless they are well-sealed on all sides and edges, and/or in your application, well-braced with other framing/stiffener members. Dante
I don't doubt that was your experience. Mine has been quite different. I've had the door/foam laminate described in place problem free for about five years.
Lance Mindheim
Visit Miami's Downtown Spur at www.lancemindheim.com
JTG You don't have to worry about warping.
First basic rule of good bench work in my o/p you can never make it too strong. When you compromise strength for weight your asking for trouble.so I use nothing but 2x4 legs. I used to use dimensional 1x4 lumber but have since given way to using 3/4" birch plywood ripped into 3/4"x4" lengths. Plywood is stronger and straighter then dimensional wood at least around here it is and when you break it down it's no more expensive to use either. All bench work should be screwed and glued together. Depending on how large of a layout your planning on building you can use the cookie cutter or plywood subroadbed method. I have now also started using that on the new section being built and top it with Homasote.
Glad to see comments from some of the folks using foam. I'm working on my third layout. The first two were classic L-girder construction with Homasote sub-roadbed; this time around I'm using 2" foam on hollow core doors ... and I'm lovin' it.
It takes a matter of minutes to turn a door into a train table (or benchwork, as we like to say around these parts). You don't have to worry about warping. And most importantly, you're pretty much forced to build a sectional layout that can be relatively easily disassembled, moved and reassembled. After tearing apart two perfectly good railroads because of moving, that's darn important in my book.
About the only drawback to foam that I'm aware of is the relative difficulty of attaching switch machines. That's not a factor for me, because I'm building a walkaround and I don't mind using groundthrows. But if your heart is set on switch machines, I know many folks are successfully using them with foam.
If you have the time, tools and skills, you can create a base that's perhaps even more lightweight than a hollow-core door. But then you have to be wary of warping. Personally, I wish I had started with doors for benchwork 25 years ago.
I put 2" foam over 1"x 4" grid style benchwork, it is very strong. I have climbed up on it by kneeling on a 1' x 2' piece of plywood and all was fine. The foam is easy to work through and plywood is easy to work through, but any time I have had to go through foam and plywood I had a tough time.
I like using foam for rugged mountains and plaster cloth over weaved cardboard for rolling hills. Here is a transition point from Rocky Mountains to rolling foothills I am working on.
There is a good tutorial on You-Tube on building foam moutains.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1D4KBB_GC4
Good luck.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
I did it the old fashioned way - - - 1/2" plywood on top of a frame built with 2x4's supported on 2x4 legs.
I use 2 1/2" drywall screws to hold the 2x4 framing and legs to one another and 3/4" drywall screws to secure the plywood to the frame.
Basic Model Railroad Benchwork: The Complete Photo Guide by Jeff Wilson
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
NILE Can you do that? Put the foam right on top of the benchwork? I have been thinking/planning how I am going to build a model train layout with rolling hills. No mountains in Michigan, but there is some contour to the earth.
Can you do that? Put the foam right on top of the benchwork? I have been thinking/planning how I am going to build a model train layout with rolling hills. No mountains in Michigan, but there is some contour to the earth.
Of course you can. The foam is remarkably sturdy, and if it were not for the tendency to lean over your layout as you work / operate, it is more than capable of supporting its own weight and the weight of the layout above it.
The other issue is that foam isn't very good at serving as an attachment point for switch machines, wiring, and anything else you may want to put under your layout.
As I said in a previous post, my kids' layout has a plywood base because I wasn't sure that they wouldn't be climbing on it (they don't, but better safe than sorry).
Once you get the foam up to track level, you can either layer hills up with pieces of foam "wedding cake" fashion, and sculpt them with a knife, foam cutter, rasp, whatever. Or you can use screen and plaster, gauze, plaster and balled up newspaper, cardboard strips and papier-mache, or one of the other scenery techniques. Unless you're using real bricks in your construction, the weight of your layout won't be an issue.
My own layout has a joist wherever two sheets of foam meet, as well as every 18-24" under the sheets themselves (and I have no problem gluing or nailing another piece of wood in place if I need to place a switch machine, for example).
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
Who needs plywood, I go straight to the foam!
Paul's method sounds like a great way to prepare to build the Plywood Prairie. OTOH, if your taste runs more to the Purple Mountain Majesties, up close and personal, box framing isn't the best way to fly and a solid plywood top is counterproductive.
My own benchwork fits MY requirements - and may or may not work for others. Basic structure is L-girder as described by Linn Westcott, except that I use steel stud material instead of wood. Except for a couple of 2x4 legs, everything below the bottom of the subgrade is steel. That includes the risers that hold the roadbed off the joists.
My plywood subgrade, cookie-cut to the size and shape of the right-of-way, is rather thin - but I don't hesitate to beat it into submission with steel angle iron (screwed to the underside) if it tries to warp, twist or sag.
Along the aisleway edges, joists can be cut off at whatever length is convenient. The fascia is Masonite(r) supported by steel cleats fastened to the joist ends, and can be straight or curved as the builder sees fit.
Why? For reasons which are unique to me:
The above is true of me. It probably doesn't describe more than a minute percentage of other layout builders.
I do emphatically agree that solid benchwork is the foundation of good trackwork, and bulletproof trackwork is essential to a satisfying model railroad. I don't claim that there is only one right way to achieve those goals.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Hi!
Like it's been said, there are lots of ways to do benchwork.
My current HO layout uses 1/2 inch ply for the base, 1x2s for lateral supports, and 54 2x2 legs. It is quite strong and very solid. But no matter what you use, make sure its solid and sturdy and there are no places for "bows" or the like. Don't skimp on the wood quality (although you certainly don't need the best) I think most of the folks here will agree - if you make solid benchwork, lay good track, and wire properly, you wil have the basics down for a good RR.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
What you can do really depends on the funds available, your carpentry skills, and the amount of vertical relief you wish to have on your layout, as well as how much weight it will have to bear.
My layout has 2x2 legs, and 1x2 cross members and framing, with a grid of 1x2's to support the layout and fasten wiring, switch machines, and the like to. On top of this is a 1" thick piece of extruded foam board (no plywood). This layer is "ground zero", and forms the lowest points -- riverbeds gullies, etc. Then I have layered up extruded foam in 1" layers, so that he roadbed sits on 2" of foam, and hills are progressively taller.
My boys' layout, on the other hand, has 2x4 legs, 1x3 cross braces and framing, and a deck of 3/4" plywood. This is more than sturdy enough for my kids to lean on, even climb on, if they want to.
I use the same method Iron Rooster outlined. One caution on plywood thickness though. Although 1/2" is more than strong enough I've found it to be more prone to warping and dimensional changes in climates with large humidity swings. For this reason I prefer 3/4" ply, not for strength but for a little more resistance to dimensional changes. If your layout will be relatively flat you can use Iron Roosters method but glue a sheet of 2" thick extruded foam on top instead of plywood.
Lance
I build a grid using 1x4's and screw 1/2" plywood to the top. For legs I use two 1x4's or 1x3's joined together in an L shape. Here's a site with pictures http://www.buildingmodeltrains.com/benchwork-tutorial-part-1/
Enjoy
Paul
Hi Phil.
There are many ways to skin a cat in this hobby and you will get a lot of great advice here. First off a few questions will really speed up the process as we all know you're itching to run some trains. We've all been there.
1. What scale will it be?
2. How much space do you have and what are your thoughts on how you would like to use it?
3. How are your woodworking skills and what tools do you own or have access to?
4. Would you like a flat layout or ups and downs, mountains, lakes or anything else that might be unique to your empire?
Standing by to help.
I was wondering if any modelers out there has any advice on atarting to build some benchwork? What has worked, what hasn't for them and esp what type of thickness I should use for plywood.