Building an L-girder layout

[Paulus Jas]

hi,

In general i understand your way of thinking. Which does not mean i have to agree with you.  Organising help, whether its a neighbour getting in larger pieces of plywood or asking questions on here is part of the job.

I doubt very much if the plan you have chosen is the best for the space you have; if you would study the questions of professional layout designers they always start with the available space.

Not only the plans are old in 101 trackplans,  it are often just plans. I think the plan has height problems.  If your running a train from the Wye over the mound house bridge with the switch on the grade the incline down towards the concealed crossover will be very steep indeed;  you'll need about 2 feet for the transition from going up to down witch leaves you with just 2 feet to drop 2 inches in elevation. The distance between the concealed crossover and the bridge is the shortest, so it may be an idea to have the mound house switch not on a grade. 

As Cuyama stated issues like staging and interchange are not included in the plan. the second turntable close to the why is not really needed and i do not see a lot of industrial switching opportunities.

I am not sure you have really explored different solutions for the space you have. I am pretty sure plan 67 from 102 realistic trackplans can be fitted into your space. The original plan is the San Jacinto District by Andy Sperandeo; much easier to build and maintain. If you want to impress the youth , it might be nice to have more then one train running at the very same time.

As said, if you have thought all things over, its your choice to go for the V&T RR. Wish you the best

Paul

 

 

[wdcrvr]

Thank you for taking the trouble to comment.  I am aware of the access problems but will not have any walls on any side of this layout.  It will be in a large area of a new basement.

Part of the reason I am using cut pieces of plywood is because I can get rather large pieces at no cost.  The other part is that I have back issues and don't want to deal with carrying 4x8 sheets of plywood thru the house and down the basement steps.

I don't quite understand your comment about the switch near Moundhouse.  The plan appears to indicate that it is on a grade.  Since I am an admitted "new guy" could you please elaborate on why the switch needs to be flat and explain what you mean by "easements at 3 sisdes".

I have to say I really appreciate this forum because I am new to the community I live in (Columbia, Illinois) and have not been able to find anybody who seems to be interested in talking about model railroads.

Thanks

Jim

[wdcrvr]

First, thanks to everyone who has replied to my post so far.

I realize that the book I used is quite old.  However, after looking at many plans in many sources I liked this one the best for my needs.  I liked the fact that I could have a pooint to point run from one yard to the other.  It also offers a continuous loop to let a train just run around on its own.  I probably would only install one of the turntables simply because they are expensive.  I also like that there are several locations for industry sidings and that the track runs at several levels.  I am not too concerned about the grades because I have no desire to run really long trains.  I am also not concerned about how protypical it is to some particular railroad. 

I understand the concern about access to some areas of the layout, however this layout is going up in my basement and there will be plenty of access room all the way around the layout.

I didn't like the narrow access lane that enters into the middle of the layout, so I added about another 16" to the original 9' side of the layout which makes the access lane quite large.

I have enough room around the layout that I could actually expand the layout in the future if I ever get bored with this setup.

The main purpose of this layout will be to keep me out of trouble and to entertain my four young grandsons.

Thanks again for all the input and I welcome any addition comments.

Jim

[cuyama]

Sounds like you are pretty far down the road with choosing this layout. But since you are new to building layouts for yourself, it may not be obvious from the way 101 Track Plans is marketed that the designs in this book are over 50 years old.

There has been a lot of progress in layout design thinking since then -- and some of those old track plans weren't that great, even in the '50s! In particular, many people find that newer ideas such as staging and interchange add a lot of interest to a layout once it is built.

This particular plan has the multiple routes and loops that were popular in the Eisenhower administration but that some folks find trite and tedious today (not everyone, though, it must be said). And its relationship to the real life Virginia & Truckee is pretty much in name only. About the only thing that really reflects the V&T in the trackage arrangement is the square "roundhouse" in Carson City. (And if you aren't interested in the V&T specifically, that's fairly unusual for other railroads.)

There are also a number of severe access challenges in this plan as drawn in 101 Track Plans which aren't addressed (if there are walls on three sides). One of these is the 2-foot aisle for access, which many folks would find uncomfortably tight.

In that space, other track plans might be a more engaging fit to your interests, whatever they might be. You might try looking in Kalmbach's much more current track plan book 102 Realistic Track Plans for ideas.

Best of luck with whatever you choose.

Byron

[HaroldA]

I learned this one the hard way - don't use 'Utility Grade' lumber for your girders or risers.  This lumber will, over time, twist and warp.  I used it on one of my first layouts and I ended up going underneath and replacing major portions of the structure which wasn't a fun job.  If you have used it, be sure it is securely screwed down which will help eliminate the problem. 

When I built my latest version, I left room for a turntable and a small yard which fits in with the era and place I am modeling.  When you do this, decide ahead of time the size of the turntable and the associated services which will go with it and put this into your plan. Turntables and yards tend to eat up valuable space so it's best to do this in the planning stages.  My entire area, which isn't that large, is completely flat and level and actually sat there for about two years before I finally started to build it.

Congrats on starting your first layout!!  I am on number three and every one of them has been a learning experience and a whole lot of fun.

[Paulus Jas]

wdcrvr

My question is:  Would it be better to put together the plywood roadbed for the mainline, allowing it to temporarily lie flat on the benchwork.  Then after establishing the roadbed and its location on the layout, go back and start raising the roadbed by installing the risers beneath it?

The strength of L-girder construction is using one sheet of plywood; definitely not a buch of pieces. Using a good grade of plywood is peanuts in comparison to all the other costs you will have to make.

The layout you have chosen has some design issues. You will encounter severe reach-in problems, both during the build and during operation and maintenance. The grades will be pretty steep, allow enough space for vertical easements.

I would build Flume and the loop first, adding the lap and VC later. The switch near Moundhouse is critical, it has to be flat, with easements at 3 sides.

It is a rather complicated design for a first layout, wish you good luck

paul

 

 

[tomikawaTT]

The benchwork of my double-garage filler is classic L girder design, so the principles I use should be helpful.

A few definitions.  I refer to that plywood base as, "Subgrade."  "Roadbed," cut to ballast slope contours , is the layer that separates subgrade from the flex track (or sectional track) ties.  Some track comes with roadbed built in (Kato Unitrak, etc) while other modelers prefer cork.  I use thin extruded foam (aka fan-fold underlayment) because it works for me.

First, I attach my risers temporarily to the joists (or flat sides of L girders, depending.)  After the subgrade is in place I adjust them for height and superelevation of curves.  I superelevate by twisting the entire subgrade.

Second, allow for the yards and turntables in initial construction.  You don't have to put in the subgrade for the entire area, but you should leave plenty of overhang on the original subgrade and/or pre-install splice plates.  This insures that the later additions will be properly mated to pre-existing structure with no vertical kinks or steps to raise problems with tracklaying.

The big advantage of L girder, joist and riser is that literally anything can be used for joists, as long as each piece has one straight, square edge.  (One past layout-building project made use of some 1 x 8 that had split down the approximate center.  It was installed splintered edge up.)  The second advantage is the ability to adjust riser heights 'after the fact' if some grade just isn't working out.  While it is theoretically possible to shift all the structure below the surface without disturbing the finished scenery I have never personally encountered a need to do so.

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - on steel stud 'C acts like L' girder benchwork)

[yankee flyer]

Yes!
I would layout the road bed and splice the joint with at least a 8" piece 1/2" plywood scrap. Also clamp and glue the joint even if you use screws. With clamps, a carpenter's glue joint will be straight and tight. As mentioned the joints can't be on a change of grade. Now you can put in the risers to create your grades. When doing a complete 180 degree turn the plywood will want to do a super, super, elevated curve, I was able to twist the plywood sub road bed to almost a level curve, which has worked fine.
always plan ahead for additions it sure saves redoing things.

Have fun. 

Lee

[fwright]

wdcrvr

....I have never built a layout before, just did work on a club layout over in Germany about 30 years ago.

....I have cut a bunch of 24" radius curve sections and straight sections.  I started trying to put these sections in place by setting them on the risers according to the elevations needed.  This does not seem to be going real well. 

 

Exactly what does not seem to be going well?

 

My question is:  Would it be better to put together the plywood roadbed for the mainline, allowing it to temporarily lie flat on the benchwork.  Then after establishing the roadbed and its location on the layout, go back and start raising the roadbed by installing the risers beneath it?

Also, I wanted to leave the two yards and the two turntable areas as later additions.  Will that cause me a lot of trouble if I don't set up levels for them right away?

I will greatly appreciate any and all advice.

thanks

There are really 2 ways to get to the same end result using 1/2" plywood subroadbed and L-grider construction (there are many others if both conditions are not present).

 

The first is to cut subroadbed sections out and mount them to the benchwork.  The subroadbed can be on risers from the get-go, or can be elevated later.  Most will probably install the risers right away.  This method (cutting the subroadbed out first) has the advantage of being more economical in materials.

 

The second common technique - more suited to smaller layouts due to cost - is to cover all benchwork with plywood sheets laid directly on the joists.  When the track and structure areas are defined, they are cut out from the plywood with a jig saw, and the left-overs used as scenery base or scrapped.  When ready to implement grades, the plywood subroadbed is elevated using the risers.  This method is commonly referred to as "cookie cutter".

 

Regardless of which method you use, you want to make the subroadbed as continuous as you can to avoid bumps and misalignments at the joints.  Use at least 12" long splice plates under the joints.  Make sure no joints occur where the grade is changing (the plywood is being bent into a vertical curve).  Adjust the joints so the splice plates are where the subroadbed is flat or on a steady grade.  When the plywood is properly adjusted and secured in place, sand the joint to make it smooth.  But the joint cannot have a vertical kink, nor can you sand a vertical kink out.

 

hope this helps

Fred

[wdcrvr]

I am attempting to build a 9 x 12 layout using the L-girder benchwork and plan #48 from "101 Track Plans For Model Railroaders".  I have never built a layout before, just did work on a club layout over in Germany about 30 years ago.

I have the L-girder benchwork up and looking pretty good.  I am using 1/2" plywood for the sub-roadbed (price is right - scarfed up from scrap piles from new home construction sites).  I have cut a bunch of 24" radius curve sections and straight sections.  I started trying to put these sections in place by setting them on the risers according to the elevations needed.  This does not seem to be going real well. 

My question is:  Would it be better to put together the plywood roadbed for the mainline, allowing it to temporarily lie flat on the benchwork.  Then after establishing the roadbed and its location on the layout, go back and start raising the roadbed by installing the risers beneath it?

Also, I wanted to leave the two yards and the two turntable areas as later additions.  Will that cause me a lot of trouble if I don't set up levels for them right away?

I will greatly appreciate any and all advice.

thanks