One of the first things I thought of when reading the "If you knew then what you know now, what would you do different?" post is that I would listen to experience and NOT depend on track joiners for good electrical conductivity. Since a major redo is in the cards for this fall, it's time to get serious about soldering my track joints. Which leads to several newbie questions:
- Do most people solder track joints after the track is in place, or before it's spiked down? Flex track on curves is obviously done prior to spiking, but what about straight sections? Is soldering in place a problem?
- Does everyone solder their turnouts to adjacent track, or leave them unsoldered (with a power feeder) in case there is a repair / replace need?
- Is it possible or practical to unsolder track if you need to replace a turnout or want to change things, or is the answer to cut the section out?
- Is the best practice to fill the rail gap completely, or only on the outside of the rail, to avoid tracking issues?
- What about expansion gaps? What is best practice to avoid expansion & contraction issues? My environment is a finished, heated & cooled basement room in Michigan so there is not a huge amount of temp swing or humidity, but there is some.
Thanks, Bill
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Except on curves, I solder only every other flex track joint and leave a narrow gap for expansion in the unsoldered joints. I solder feeder wires to the joints that are soldered.
onebiglizard Do most people solder track joints after the track is in place, or before it's spiked down? Flex track on curves is obviously done prior to spiking, but what about straight sections? Is soldering in place a problem?
Do most people solder track joints after the track is in place, or before it's spiked down? Flex track on curves is obviously done prior to spiking, but what about straight sections? Is soldering in place a problem?
I never, ever solder rail joints. What I do is solder jumpers around each rail joint - little wire connectors. All jumper and rail drop soldering is done after the track is in place, as part of connecting it to the layout electricals.
Does everyone solder their turnouts to adjacent track, or leave them unsoldered (with a power feeder) in case there is a repair / replace need?
I build my turnouts in place, frequently by stripping (or sliding) flex track ties out of the way to clear a site along previously laid 'plain Jane' track. Short of tearing up all of the adjacent trackwork, lifting one out is the impossible dream. OTOH, they are electrically and mechanically bulletproof. I am currently operating an 'end of the railroad' module that I hand-laid 29+ years ago. The turnouts have never given me one iota of trouble - and my methods have improved since they were built.
Is it possible or practical to unsolder track if you need to replace a turnout or want to change things, or is the answer to cut the section out?
Soldered rail joints can be unsoldered, using a hot soldering tool, de-soldering wick and/or a 'sucker' designed to vacuum molten solder away. Wick and the 'sucker' should be available at any good electronic supply house. The unsoldered joiner can then be slid to the side to allow raising the rail - preferably the rail where the joiner ends up. Note that you will have some cleanup before you can install new rail - the de-soldering process is likely to be hard on plastic ties.
Is the best practice to fill the rail gap completely, or only on the outside of the rail, to avoid tracking issues? What about expansion gaps? What is best practice to avoid expansion & contraction issues? My environment is a finished, heated & cooled basement room in Michigan so there is not a huge amount of temp swing or humidity, but there is some. Thanks, Bill
What about expansion gaps? What is best practice to avoid expansion & contraction issues? My environment is a finished, heated & cooled basement room in Michigan so there is not a huge amount of temp swing or humidity, but there is some.
I combined these two issues, because they are really a single issue. If you have built your layout where the conditions are as stable as those in a NASA standard clean room, you can lay your track with solidly butted rail joints. For the usual kind of climate control, laying track with a gap the width of a credit card at each joint will probably be enough unless something extreme happens (flood, power failure, runaway global warming...) Since my layout is built in a non-climate-controlled space in the Dessicated Desert I need to leave WIDE gaps when I lay track in the cool of a January morning, but can butt my rails solid if I'm crazy enough to try to work in the sauna on an August afternoon. The temperature differential between those extremes approaches 100 degrees, and a 50 degree swing in 12 hours is altogether too common.
Most people claim that wood products reacting to changes in humidity are the major problem. Since my benchwork is steel, and my track is laid on sculpted foam roadbed over thin plywood, I find that my major problem is simple linear expansion of nickel silver rail. My 1.5mm January rail gap will be a butt joint in August - I've observed the phenomenon over almost 4 years now, so I know whereof I type.
To aid in tracking, I de-burr every rail end, even those on flex and stick rail fresh out of the box. Then I take a tiny, barely visible facet out of the top inside corner of the railhead on both sides of every rail joint. That allows for a tiny amount of horizontal misalignment, and is the best derailment preventer I have ever discovered.
Happy tracklaying.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - on Atlas flex track with hand-laid specialwork)
Solder curved track joiners and leave the straight ones loose. I solder feeders to the rails and leave a couple of expansion joints. Do not fill gaps unless it needs to be insulated. I do not solder the turnouts in. I do feed the rails of the turnouts with feeders. Expansion and contraction is a problem for me. All my track is on a modular railroad.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
I solder some of my joiners but prefer to add joiners to the rails directly. I had one incident of track buckling because there wasn't any slack between rails joints. Soldering the joiners will leave no room for expansion.
Springfield PA
I soldered all my rail joints, turnouts included. I cut insulating gaps where needed (the layout was originally built for DC use) and feed the rails through DPDT switches on the control panel and push button switches on the auxiliary panel for the shop tracks.
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
onebiglizard One of the first things I thought of when reading the "If you knew then what you know now, what would you do different?" post is that I would listen to experience and NOT depend on track joiners for good electrical conductivity. Since a major redo is in the cards for this fall, it's time to get serious about soldering my track joints. Which leads to several newbie questions: - Do most people solder track joints after the track is in place, or before it's spiked down? Flex track on curves is obviously done prior to spiking, but what about straight sections? Is soldering in place a problem? Yes to keep our flex track in-line on the curves solder the joints, but remember to leave room for the slid track to move when curved. - Does everyone solder their turnouts to adjacent track, or leave them unsoldered (with a power feeder) in case there is a repair / replace need? I learned the hard way not to solder my turnouts. use jumper wirers to bridge the joints. I scrapted five of em once will trying to unsolder the set. - Is it possible or practical to unsolder track if you need to replace a turnout or want to change things, or is the answer to cut the section out? - Is the best practice to fill the rail gap completely, or only on the outside of the rail, to avoid tracking issues? - What about expansion gaps? What is best practice to avoid expansion & contraction issues? My environment is a finished, heated & cooled basement room in Michigan so there is not a huge amount of temp swing or humidity, but there is some. Leave gaps in every other joint. Thanks, Bill -
Yes to keep our flex track in-line on the curves solder the joints, but remember to leave room for the slid track to move when curved.
I learned the hard way not to solder my turnouts. use jumper wirers to bridge the joints. I scrapted five of em once will trying to unsolder the set.
Leave gaps in every other joint.
Johnnny_reb Once a word is spoken it can not be unspoken!
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Looking back over the past two decades of owning various layouts, by far the most serious mechanical problem that used to crop up was that of rail buckling. The buckling was caused by either non-existent rail gaps or insufficient rail gaps.
I now put a 1/16" gap at every other joint. I do not solder any joints except those on curves. Oddly, there were a few places where I thought the gaps were too wide but I never really had any derailments there.
Everybody's experience is different but I haven't really found I need to go overboard with feeders and just put them in every other track or so (every six feet) and have not had problems.
Lance Mindheim
Visit Miami's Downtown Spur at www.lancemindheim.com
I might add that gaps in rails should NOT be on a curve. Cut them in a relatively straight piece of track. Less chance of a flange picking up an edge. By all means bevel the tops of the rail head at each joint.
73
Bruce in the Peg
onebiglizardOne of the first things I thought of when reading the "If you knew then what you know now, what would you do different?" post is that I would listen to experience and NOT depend on track joiners for good electrical conductivity. Since a major redo is in the cards for this fall, it's time to get serious about soldering my track joints. Which leads to several newbie questions:Check out Jim Hediger's article in this months MR about soldering wire and track feeders in the work shop section a good read with some helpful information - Do most people solder track joints after the track is in place, or before it's spiked down? Flex track on curves is obviously done prior to spiking, but what about straight sections? Is soldering in place a problem?I personally no longer solder track sections together but rather solder one side of the rail joiner alternating sides and rails allowing for expansion and contraction I have done both solder in place and on the work bench all depending on the accessibility of the section of track that I'm laying.but generally being as I now secure track using DAP 3.0 Latex adhesive caulking which sets up in less extremely fast I do not find the need to spike track to the roadbed. If it's a section where I am using Micro engineering flex track being as it holds it's shape there is not reason to spike it in place. I bend it to the curve and join the two pieces of track in place. Again if it's easier to solder two pieces of flex track for that particular section then I'll do it if not I solder in place - Does everyone solder their turnouts to adjacent track, or leave them unsoldered (with a power feeder) in case there is a repair / replace need?Personally I never solder turnouts to any of the three sections where they meet track, I made that mistake in the past and when I decided to make a change or swap out a turnout for a hand layed fast tracks one it was just more work to de-solders it. With wiring the frogs and the other sections of the turnout there is no need for a solder connection. - Is it possible or practical to unsolder track if you need to replace a turnout or want to change things, or is the answer to cut the section out? No cutting is totally unnecessary as far as soldered connections are concerned. Go to your local Radio Shack and get yourself a solder sucker or soldering braid. It's a copper braid that when you heat the solder up with the iron and touch the copper braid tot he melting solder it will actually wick up the piece of braid removing all the solder. You may how ever find it necessary to cut a section of the track on either side of the turnout if you have it glued in place. I noticed the turnouts on a rather noteworthy molders layout a small section of track at each of the tree track connections. I asked him why he did that and he told me for easy of removal if they ever had to come out. One could also not glue in the last tie so it could be removed and the rail joiners just slipped back enough allowing the turnout to be removed. - Is the best practice to fill the rail gap completely, or only on the outside of the rail, to avoid tracking issues?You shouldn't have any gaps to speak of other then maybe a few thousands of an inch and never solder the tops or inside of the rials as this will guaranteed cause derailments only solder the outside web or bottom of the rail. - What about expansion gaps? What is best practice to avoid expansion & contraction issues? My environment is a finished, heated & cooled basement room in Michigan so there is not a huge amount of temp swing or humidity, but there is some.I have not found the need to cut expansion gaps in my case but if I were I would cut them a scale 39' apart as this is the size of a prototype section of rail. Personally I wold take other measures to control or bring the R/H relative humidity in the train room down to an acceptable level. A good dehumidifier should take care of that. -
Check out Jim Hediger's article in this months MR about soldering wire and track feeders in the work shop section a good read with some helpful information
I personally no longer solder track sections together but rather solder one side of the rail joiner alternating sides and rails allowing for expansion and contraction I have done both solder in place and on the work bench all depending on the accessibility of the section of track that I'm laying.but generally being as I now secure track using DAP 3.0 Latex adhesive caulking which sets up in less extremely fast I do not find the need to spike track to the roadbed. If it's a section where I am using Micro engineering flex track being as it holds it's shape there is not reason to spike it in place. I bend it to the curve and join the two pieces of track in place. Again if it's easier to solder two pieces of flex track for that particular section then I'll do it if not I solder in place
Personally I never solder turnouts to any of the three sections where they meet track, I made that mistake in the past and when I decided to make a change or swap out a turnout for a hand layed fast tracks one it was just more work to de-solders it. With wiring the frogs and the other sections of the turnout there is no need for a solder connection.
No cutting is totally unnecessary as far as soldered connections are concerned. Go to your local Radio Shack and get yourself a solder sucker or soldering braid. It's a copper braid that when you heat the solder up with the iron and touch the copper braid tot he melting solder it will actually wick up the piece of braid removing all the solder. You may how ever find it necessary to cut a section of the track on either side of the turnout if you have it glued in place. I noticed the turnouts on a rather noteworthy molders layout a small section of track at each of the tree track connections. I asked him why he did that and he told me for easy of removal if they ever had to come out. One could also not glue in the last tie so it could be removed and the rail joiners just slipped back enough allowing the turnout to be removed.
You shouldn't have any gaps to speak of other then maybe a few thousands of an inch and never solder the tops or inside of the rials as this will guaranteed cause derailments only solder the outside web or bottom of the rail.
I have not found the need to cut expansion gaps in my case but if I were I would cut them a scale 39' apart as this is the size of a prototype section of rail. Personally I wold take other measures to control or bring the R/H relative humidity in the train room down to an acceptable level. A good dehumidifier should take care of that.
I solder every single joiner, without exception, including turnouts and crossings. There should be no need for expansion gaps if you use dimensionally stable materials to build your support structure.
John Timm
My layout room conditions are essentially the same as those of the OP, although it is neither heated nor cooled. I solder all rail joints, then cut insulating gaps where required - these have a piece a grey ABS plastic ca'ed in place to maintain the gap. There's a single pair of feeders from the power supply to the track. Zero problems with power distribution on 200' of mainline with DC control.
Wayne
desertdogI solder every single joiner, without exception, including turnouts and crossings. There should be no need for expansion gaps if you use dimensionally stable materials to build your support structure. John Timm
This is what I do. Never had any issues with expansion.
Michael
CEO- Mile-HI-RailroadPrototype: D&RGW Moffat Line 1989
I had non-ballasted Code 100 buckled sideways across a bridge on my first layout. I happened in the late spring, maybe three months after I had begun to run trains. The layout comprised three full sheets of 5/8" ply abutted against each other on the long side. I knew right away what the cause was, and promptly began to run a dehumidifier in the basement space where the layout was. The tracks returned to their original line within about 12 hours.
I do leave a few gaps here and there, but I do solder the joiners on curves. Between these practices, controlling humidity, soldering joiners on curves, and using spline roadbed on risers and tracks adhered with caulking, and ballasted, I have not had a hint of trouble in the now four years of use.
-Crandell
Hi,
I recently built a layout after tearing my old one down because I did not do an adequate job laying the track.
This time, I studied the info on this site:
http://www.wiringfordcc.com/index.htm
I didn't solder any rail joiners, and stuck to the concept of "every rail section should be soldered to something". I used Atlas flex track, with a feeder dropped from each piece. Feeders were also dropped from each turnout (Walthers "DCC friendly"). Left small expansion gaps between most sections (it's in a room above my garage; can get down to zero in the winter and 90 in the summer).
One thing I should mention is that the rail joiners I used were EXTREMELY tight. Atlas and Walthers had too much "slop" for me; sorry I will have to give you the brand tomorrow (it's late and I have to go up into the garage). I've heard some folks have used n scale joiners for a tight fit.
Keeping smooth joints on curved sections was a challenge without soldering, but the combination of tight joiners with careful spiking and ballasting seems to have done the trick. My fussiest steamers negotiate the layout nicely.
So far I'm very pleased. Please ask any more questions you might have.
Steve