I am pondering what to fill the new found L shaped 16' (31"w)x12' (24"w)space with. I have been searching yard plans to and so far the only haven't had much luck finding something that comes close to what I am envisioning in my head I found the "Great Northwestern Ry. Warm Springs District" in the MR track plan data base listed in the link below which would require a little bit of modification even though the overall lengths are the same. It seems to be different that what I was thinking as there are a lot of industries that can result in a lot of switching which I like but it's not the big freight yard set up I was looking for. My ulterior motive was/is staging of trains as well as yard operations. Down the road when more real estate is required hidden staging will be in another part of the basement, Any one know of any good sources for track plans specifically for freight yards. I probably have every book Kalmbach has published on the subject and more then one night has passed where my kitchen table looked like planning central for a major railroad,
Thanks
As always your input is greatly appreciated.
Are you looking for a double ended yard or stub track? Pyramid shaped or diamond shaped? Main line passing by or down the middle? Drill tracks at both ends or just one? Industry related storage yard or a centralized marshaling yard? Not all yards are created equal and every yard has a specific purpose for its existence.
The example link you gave is a complete layout designed for switching short trains for industries. Having yards on an L shaped layout is tricky when trying to couple and uncouple on the curved yard tracks. Maybe better to have 2 yards with pinwheel yard leads at the curve leading into say a west and east yards split by the main.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
you know two yards had been a thought, I would like a single double ended yard but I realize they usually take up a lot of room ad don't know if I can effectively pull it of fin the space I have. I know that example was not a yard plan but it was something to start off form and maybe modify the plan to add more trackage for staging. Definitely a main line passing most likely on the outside of the yard. I visited a friends layout who as his main running down the center with an east and west bound yard on either side so that may be a possibility. As far as the shape of the yard goes I guess what ever is going to work in the space and give me the most trackage. I know I'm not asking for too much now am I...........lol
Allegheny2-6-6-6so far the only haven't had much luck finding something that comes close to what I am envisioning in my head
Suggestion: how about if you actually tell us what you are envisioning in your mind?
Might make it a little bit easier to suggest something relevant for you.
So far we know that you want "a big freight yard" and that you need to use some of the tracks for visible staging.
I seem to recall from an earlier thread of yours in another forum that you were modeling in H0 scale. Big steam era.
Can't recall outright what kind of train lengths the rest of your layout is designed for, if you ever told us.
Can't recall if you have told us anything about expected traffic - number of trains etc?
What kind of "yard operations" are you envisioning ?
An yard which is used for block swaps or interchanges between railroads?
A yard used for classification - breaking down inbound trains/sorting cars by destination/building outbound trains?
A coal marshaling yard?
A place where you change engines and cabooses when your trains move from the plains to the mountains or the other way around?
Something else?
Smile, Stein
With 28 linear feet 2 to 2.5 feet wide, the OP has space for a lot of yard and should be sufficient to fit cuts of cars of 15 feet long or more if the yard is double-ended. With cuts half that long, there is the opportunity to have two sequential yards with separate functions.
There are articles (such as in the present MR) as well as a Kalmbach book on yards. There was also a discussion of yard design in recent weeks on the Model Railroad Podcast Show. The OP should avail himself of same if he hasn't already.
Mark
Information Station (PDF-download) Freight Yards by John Armstrong (from the design side) is still on sale for $6.26, and is a nice compliment to Realistic Freight Operations by Frank Ellison (from the operations side) for $8.95.
Print them off on a black & white laser printer that greyscales all pictures nicely, then 3-hole punch into a notebook, and go back for the osmosis to seep in!
Conemaugh Road & Traction circa 1956
I gave the OP those book and PDF titles (and links directly to where they could be purchased) 10 week ago. He apparently do not want to learn how to design a yard - he just wants a yard.
Let's try another approach - here is a couple of links to track plans in the MR track plan database that has fairly large yards which the OP perhaps can use as the basis for a track plan of his own:
1) the 5th street yard on Chuck Hitchcock's Argentine Industrial District Railway layout from Model Railroader, february 2007. Track plan database link: http://www.trains.com/mrr/default.aspx?c=a&id=1179
2) David Barrow's yards from the incarnation of the Cat Mountain and Santa Fe that was featured in Model Railroader in September 1999. Track plan database link: http://www.trains.com/mrr/default.aspx?c=a&id=2046
2-6-6-6: What (if anything) do you like about these yards? What do you not like? Would these yards work for your layout? If not - what is missing?
locoi1sa Having yards on an L shaped layout is tricky when trying to couple and uncouple on the curved yard tracks. Pete
Having yards on an L shaped layout is tricky when trying to couple and uncouple on the curved yard tracks.
Ha! Tell me about it. Tricky or impossible? Next layout, straight track yard, no curves.
Rich
Alton Junction
steinjr2) David Barrow's yards from the incarnation of the Cat Mountain and Santa Fe that was featured in Model Railroader in September 1999.
The August, 2009, MRR issue features David Barrow's latest incarnation of the CM&SF with a plan that shows several examples of yards.
Dante
steinjr I gave the OP those book and PDF titles (and links directly to where they could be purchased) 10 week ago. He apparently do not want to learn how to design a yard - he just wants a yard. Let's try another approach - here is a couple of links to track plans in the MR track plan database that has fairly large yards which the OP perhaps can use as the basis for a track plan of his own: 1) the 5th street yard on Chuck Hitchcock's Argentine Industrial District Railway layout from Model Railroader, february 2007. Track plan database link: http://www.trains.com/mrr/default.aspx?c=a&id=1179 2) David Barrow's yards from the incarnation of the Cat Mountain and Santa Fe that was featured in Model Railroader in September 1999. Track plan database link: http://www.trains.com/mrr/default.aspx?c=a&id=2046 2-6-6-6: What (if anything) do you like about these yards? What do you not like? Would these yards work for your layout? If not - what is missing? Stein
Stein
I have all of those books and then some it's not hat I don't want to know how to or care to design my own yard but I am trying to get ideas from various yards and pick what I like from each one. What I am leaning towards and working on tonight is two yards east and west bounds with the two track main running down the center.
What I am incorporating so far is arrival/departure track(s); a yard lead, long enough to handle a cut equal to the longest yard track; enough yard tracks to sort cars into the various blocks needed for departing trains, I am figuring on 6 or 8 maybe more, average train lengths are about 40 to 60 cars,A "for now" track to leave cars for future trains that you are not being built right away.
Allegheny2-6-6-6I have all of those books and then some it's not that I don't want to know how to or care to design my own yard but I am trying to get ideas from various yards and pick what I like from each one. What I am leaning towards and working on tonight is two yards east and west bounds with the two track main running down the center.What I am incorporating so far is arrival/departure track(s); a yard lead, long enough to handle a cut equal to the longest yard track; enough yard tracks to sort cars into the various blocks needed for departing trains, I am figuring on 6 or 8 maybe more, average train lengths are about 40 to 60 cars, A "for now" track to leave cars for future trains that you are not being built right away. I am a little stuck on an easy way for the inbound road power to get off their trains and get to the engine terminal, and vice versa for outbound road power, but I think I have that solved with a run around track behind the engine facility which is 36"x 12' and a handy track for caboose storage, parallel to a service road so caboose supplies can be brought to the track. I have to also incorporated the necessary structures and roads that will be part of this yard such as a car shop,a back shop and an independent repair facility along with some bordering industrial structures that may or may not be serviced by rail. I am leaning to the not serviced by rail at present as I think one would be hard pressed to find such a prototypical operation. As far as the links to those yards posted I like Chuck's more so then the Cat Mountain, perhaps it's because I have always favored Chucks layout in all respects over David's. I just prefer his style of modeling.
I have all of those books and then some it's not that I don't want to know how to or care to design my own yard but I am trying to get ideas from various yards and pick what I like from each one.
What I am leaning towards and working on tonight is two yards east and west bounds with the two track main running down the center.
Sounds good. My apologies for prodding you a little there, but communication is a lot more efficient if the rest of us know more about what you are looking for and what you have already thought about, instead of everybody starting over again at the most basic level. So - you are looking for examples of split yards with the main running through the middle.
One fairly obvious example (which you no doubt have seen already) is Tony Koester's Frankfort yard on his Nickel Plate Road layout. You can see the track plan e.g. on page 56-57 in "Model Railroader's Guide to Freight Yards". Via google books I see several pictures of his yard from the book "Designing an Building Multi-Deck Model Railroads"
Couple of things that might be worth noting about the Frankfort yard:
Parts of the yard (which is 31 feet long from end to end - five feet longer than what you have, and has five eastbound and five westbound tracks) cannot really be operated without using the (single track) main for some operations.
Note that there aren't dedicated A/D tracks and yard leads for both yards. Also note that Tony accepted the trade-off of getting shorter yard tracks for getting yard ladders on both ends of both yards.
The yard ladders on the westbound yard slants way from operator, making it hard to see the clearance points for the body tracks - partly mitigated in operations (according to stuff I have read elsewhere) by pushing cars on some of the westbound yard tracks further down the track so it still was possible to see the yard ladder (again at the cost of getting less yard capacity).
Operators also had to step up on a little platform on the floor to be able to reach across the front tracks to the rearmost tracks in the westbound yard.
But it still no doubt was an interesting (and sometimes probably also aggravating) place to be running trains.
For example, east is right and west is left, on the plan (yard is in Indiana, towards Ohio is right, towards Illinois is left). So the eastbound yard switching lead is at what would be the "tail" end of the trains - there is no law that says trains has to be switched from the end where the the engine is tacked on.
Contrast that to a staging yard, since you also mentioned wanting to use your yard for staging, and you wanting to run 40-60 car H0 scale trains out of this yard.
A staging yard is not really designed for car or engine handling - it is in practice designed to have as many train length body tracks as possible, with all tracks being easy to get into and/or get out of.
Here is quite possibly is a good idea to have just one yard ladder (with a compound ladder) for the eastbound yard and one for the westbound yard, and to accept the cost of having to back out the trains from the eastbound tracks between sessions, run em forward, and have them back into the westbound tracks, so they are ready to appear from the west towards the east in your next operating session.
So what would be a good design for your layout depends on whether your main goal for the yard(s) is to (for the time being) to hold as many long trains as possible for staging purposes, or whether your main goal right off the bat is get a yard that can handle one or a few trains at a time, with the main emphasis being on engine, car and caboose handling: coaling and watering engines, maybe swapping engines and/or cabooses on trains, swapping blocks of cars, maybe sorting cars for set-outs at the next few local towns, setting out defect cars at a RIP tracks and stuff like that.
Neither of those types of yards has to follow all of Craig Bisgeier's recommendations, which is really a list of recommendations for how to build efficient yards for fairly busy model railroads.
Anyways - got a rough sketch you could share with us? Doesn't need to be any fancier than a picture of a piece of paper with tracks drawn in.
July's MR has a excellent article on yard designs..I highly recommend reading it and planning from there.
A lot of those older layout books has dated information that's more suited for intermediate modelers since more and more advanced layouts designs is based on operations.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
John Armstrong's Track Planning for Realistic Operation is worth reading more than once. While it covers more than yards, it's important to deal with not just the yard itself but also how it will interact with the rest of your layout.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Stein,
Tony is a friend and I have seen the Nickle Plate first hand, he has been guiding me on this project, and meaning no disrespect to Tony but I always like to get as much input from as many sources as I can because you never know where that one little shred of pertinent information may come from. One piece of information that Tony shared with me that has stuck in my head was to always put the yard on your longest wall which unfortunately I can no longer do.So hence the L shaped yard. When the "Big" railroad gets underway in the out building I have planned for it I fully intend to have at least one 60' wall dedicated to a yard.
Another layout worth looking at for yard inspiration is Grampy'. Single track main into the yard on the right side, double track main continues from the yard on the left.
A regular pyramid shaped double ended yard between aisle and main. A small interchange yard with a couple of double ended tracks beyond the main. Engine service off the runaround.
Track schematic for entire layout:
Some pics grampy has posted:
train heading for right end of yard - you see some industries that are switched of the yard lead in the foreground, yard lead (which connects to the main) and then the main:
Passing right end of yard - engine service at bottom:
Passing reading interchange:
Passing left end of yard:
Here is a picture of his showing his yard from another angle:
Smile,Stein
BRAKIEJuly's MR has a excellent article on yard designs..I highly recommend reading it and planning from there. A lot of those older layout books has dated information that's more suited for intermediate modelers since more and more advanced layouts designs is based on operations.
Umm - the article in the June (not July) issue of MR is by Andy Sperandeo. Same person who wrote the book "The Model Railroader's Guide to Freight Yards", which the OP apparently has read :-)
Only about 25 times........lol and it's sitting right here on the bench work, Some times I think the prototypes had an easier time.......lol
steinjr BRAKIE July's MR has a excellent article on yard designs..I highly recommend reading it and planning from there. A lot of those older layout books has dated information that's more suited for intermediate modelers since more and more advanced layouts designs is based on operations. Umm - the article in the June (not July) issue of MR is by Andy Sperandeo. Same person who wrote the book "The Model Railroader's Guide to Freight Yards", which the OP apparently has read :-) Smile,Stein
BRAKIE July's MR has a excellent article on yard designs..I highly recommend reading it and planning from there. A lot of those older layout books has dated information that's more suited for intermediate modelers since more and more advanced layouts designs is based on operations.
OOPS!
Well,I' m not to sure how to help him plan his yard since that's a mighty good start..
Of course there's my loopsided ideas but....
BRAKIE I' m not to sure how to help him plan his yard
That makes at least two of us. It is a little difficult to provide a sensible and relevant answer or suggestion or comment when it is rather unclear what the OP wants people to do for him.
Oh well, whatever. Time to go do something somewhat useful instead :-)
My feelings toward classification yards (trains arrive, get broken up, and resorted into new trains) are they only belong on large layouts unless the yard is the layout. Other types of yards, bless 'em, are another matter.
markpierce My feelings toward classification yards (trains arrive, get broken up, and resorted into new trains) are they only belong on large layouts unless the yard is the layout. Other types of yards, bless 'em, are another matter. Mark
Mark,I prefer having a yard even some of my N Scale ISLs had a 3-4 track overflow yard where I can keep empties and cars that couldn't be spotted at their industries due to other cars being unloaded at that industry..This is especially true for covered hoppers and tank cars.
I agree fully functional classification yards eats up the real estate on the average size home layout.