I'm pretty set with my space and size of layout, season, era, equipment and concept, and main industry, and what I would like to see in the way of scenery. Have some hand drawn sketches.
Getting all this into the track planning program is the challenge. Time to hunker down and do it.
Thanks.
cuyama But I recognize I'm often in the minority on this view in this forum.
But I recognize I'm often in the minority on this view in this forum.
Byron, I find myself agreeing with you 98% of the time. But on the other hand, I usually find myself in the minority (particularly in my native state of California) except for my pant size (often sold out) and when in a group of Southern Pacific RR. enthusiasts.
Mark
rcato Sounds like I need to get the CadRail fired up and learn how to use it.
Sounds like I need to get the CadRail fired up and learn how to use it.
Actually, the first step of most successful layouts is determining concept, purpose, era, locale, etc., etc., etc. CAD too soon is as big of a potential trap as building benchwork first, in my view.
Byron
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
Sound advice. Thank you.
-RC
dknelsonBuilding the benchwork first is the essence of David Barrow's "domino" method of construction, although the above reference to Sievers modules follows a similar approach. That is, the layout is built up of building blocks - in my case 2x4' dominos - that can be constructed before the first pencil hits paper (or the first CadRail keystroke) because the dominos are independent pieces that can be moved around the room like chess pieces, seeing what fits the room and its obstacles, what works in other words. The benchwork influences, but does not control, the ultimate plan although of course the domino system tends to favor linear style layouts. But larger pieces can be fitted together with dominos if that suits what you want better. There is no layout that cannot be built with dominos to my way of thinking. I have even built some that do not involve 90 degree angles. I got a pad of very large graph paper in one inch grids down to 1/4 inch within the grids, replicated my basement in graph paper, and built a bunch of paper dominos 2" x 4" to represent my full size dominos. I then used one of those green plastic commerical track plan templates that is also fitted to 1" = 1 ft in HO. In my case I was in the midst of a major change of prototype, and era, but while I was pondering those issues I was also able to start building the dominos. Actually having 5 or 6 dominos completed and able to be moved around in various configurations was a great inspiration to track planning in my opinion. Dave Nelson
Building the benchwork first is the essence of David Barrow's "domino" method of construction, although the above reference to Sievers modules follows a similar approach. That is, the layout is built up of building blocks - in my case 2x4' dominos - that can be constructed before the first pencil hits paper (or the first CadRail keystroke) because the dominos are independent pieces that can be moved around the room like chess pieces, seeing what fits the room and its obstacles, what works in other words. The benchwork influences, but does not control, the ultimate plan although of course the domino system tends to favor linear style layouts. But larger pieces can be fitted together with dominos if that suits what you want better. There is no layout that cannot be built with dominos to my way of thinking. I have even built some that do not involve 90 degree angles.
I got a pad of very large graph paper in one inch grids down to 1/4 inch within the grids, replicated my basement in graph paper, and built a bunch of paper dominos 2" x 4" to represent my full size dominos. I then used one of those green plastic commerical track plan templates that is also fitted to 1" = 1 ft in HO.
In my case I was in the midst of a major change of prototype, and era, but while I was pondering those issues I was also able to start building the dominos.
Actually having 5 or 6 dominos completed and able to be moved around in various configurations was a great inspiration to track planning in my opinion.
Dave Nelson
Kind of like this. Graph paper with 1 inch squares. 1 inch = 1 foot. Drew in the benches and then the track work. Although the track work in this photo does not represent what I settled with.
The benches will come apart if I ever have to move. They are held together with 10/32 machine screws and "T" nuts. They unscrew in seconds with the drill.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
I thin the tow go hand in hand, no sense building bench work you don't need or not building what you do need I had a general idea of what my maximum width would be and I wanted to cram as much track work into the space I had, but I can now see the value of having a plan and going by the numbers. I am not saying you need to find a track plan and adhere to every turnout and curve of course modify as you wish to suit your needs and to make it your own,as there are very few people out there with the artistic ability and vision and of course talent to build right out of a picture in their head. So working off of some basic plan is a very good idea, try not to get ahead of yourself and rush to building before your ready. As far as a what method of attaching sections together I now use 3/4" oak or birch plywood ripped into 4" wide strips glued and screwed together to make bench work and then bolt the sections together using 3/8" carriage bolts with flat washers and nylon lock nuts. Along with using deck screws not drywall screws a big misconception the two are not the same even though we refer to them usually as drywall screws.
rcato Was wondering if anyone has any idea on building the benchwork first then coming up with a track plan or laying out the track plan on the benchwork after built.
Was wondering if anyone has any idea on building the benchwork first then coming up with a track plan or laying out the track plan on the benchwork after built.
Folks do this all the time, and probably nine times out of ten it's a mistake. "Benchwork first" limits what you can accomplish in a given space. It's usually much better to start with a concept first, then develop a track plan, then build benchowrk to fit.
rcato Does anyone have any experience with prefab benchwork like Sievers?
Does anyone have any experience with prefab benchwork like Sievers?
A couple of my clients have used Sievers and are happy with it. It does limit the flexibility of the benchwork shape somewhat, but both of them filled in corners or otherwise slightly modified the pre-fab benchwork.
rcato Some track plans I see, I can't tell if it is a gradual grade down and up or if a one loop helix.
Some track plans I see, I can't tell if it is a gradual grade down and up or if a one loop helix.
Usually, there will be elevations printed on either side of the area in question. Comparing those elvations should tell you what's happening with the grade.
But honestly, I can't exactly figure out to what you are referring. Maybe you can give an example from the MR track plan database (or a recent issue) of a track plan you find difficult to decipher.
rcatoDoes a helix need to be used to get to a lower shelf staging area?
No. A long visible or secluded grade can work just as well, for example. And staging can be at roughly the same elevation as visible track, but concelaed behind low or removable backdrops. Lots of alternatives, staging needn't always be below the visible benchwork.
It would be better to draw up the the track plan first. However I had four doors, a large window and a fireplace to deal with and was having no success at making any track plan I drew up work. So I thought I would try it backwards and fill my dedicated room with benchwork (on paper). Keeping in mind my minimum radius requirements.
I had the benchwork all drawn up and proceeded to pencil in the track layout. I guess I got lucky because with a minimum amount of tweaking it worked out really well. I maximized my room real estate and found little corners perfect to stick a small siding or industry in. Also I can move easily about the room with no duckunders or other annoyances. Sometimes it pays to think outside the box.
That's a lousy idea unless you're bound and determined, with a totally closed mind, to build a 4-by-8 table layout or some other arbitrarily sized/shaped layout. Come up with a track plan first. The track plan should dictate the shape of the benchwork and provide for access and freedom of movement for construction and operation.
My first layouts I had a trackplan drawn out first. The last one I had a general idea of what I wanted to do and where I wanted the benchwork to go. So I built the benchwork and then put turnouts and track on it and arranged/rearranged them until I had something I liked. My current under construction layout is a temporary layout on wheels until I get the basement finished. I built a 5'4" x 12' tabletop and am now in the process of laying turnouts and track on it to see what I like best.
My experience has been that either way can work.
Enjoy
Paul.
Mine is sort of half-and-half. The general configuration of the benchwork, but not exact dimensions, drove the 'drawn in Armstrong squares on the back of an envelope' rough plan. That then determined the exact location and dimensions of the benchwork. Detailed track planning was then done, full size, in place over the already-erected benchwork - about 100 scale meters in front of the tracklaying crew.
What is the best nut and bolt system to put together sections?
I personally use 1/4" - 20 hex head bolts with standard and lock washers and hex nuts. If frequent disassembly was anticipated, I would substitute wing nuts and omit the lock washers. This is driven by my being an aircraft mechanic and my benchwork being all steel.
Several forum members do. I hope they will offer their expertise.
Some track plans I see, I can't tell if it is a gradual grade down and up or if a one loop helix. Does a helix need to be used to get to a lower shelf staging area?
Does a helix need to be used to get to a lower shelf staging area?
Depends on the height separation between staging and the visible world. Possibilities:
In my own modeling I have all three, but the helices are on (mostly) visible track (both ends in the same scene.) Most of my staging isn't far below the visible surface, and is accessed by simple grades - but the hard-to-reach yard is actually on an elevator-like structure that can be dropped to floor level in case of some really severe problem. There is also a simple elevator that provides the essential link in a 'loads out, empties in' arrangement at a hilltop colliery.
In any event, it's wise to have a general idea of what kind of track plan you want before assembling benchwork. Helices and return loops are hard to fit onto a minimum-width shelf suitable for a narrow switching scheme, and add-on afterthoughts are seldom as structurally sound as a single solidly-designed structure.
Just my , and hardly the only word(s) on the subject.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Thanks,
-Ron Catoire