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Transition era engine service area

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Transition era engine service area
Posted by tinman1 on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 8:47 AM

I'm kind of at a loss at the moment. I'm working on a engine service area which is loosely based on the big steam and early diesel years. I want to include all the staple items a medium sized service area would have, and I already have the following;

2-walthers roundhouses- the smaller version, already built

1-90' turntable

the large walthers concrete coaling tower

2- water plugs

1- oil crane

1- ash pit/ hoist

Walthers backshop- future home to the diesels 

Walthers machine shop

Walthers sand house and towers

 I still need to get a water tower and diesel fueling rack, but I'm at a loss at how to fit this in a reasonable space. I'm looking at 5 tracks right now, 2 outbound tracks under the coal tower with the large sand tower, water plug, and oil crane, 1-inbound track on the outside of the coal tower which will have the ash pit , water plug, and small sand tower. There will be a service track on both sides, one for the sandhouse and coal elevator, and on the opposite side to cover the cinder elevator and will continue around the edge of the turntable to hold MOW cars/crane and a maintenance building. I'm not sure how I want to try to fit in the machine shop and diesel shop, and I would like to also fit in another backshop if I can. The diesel fuel rack is another item I'm juggling with. I'm not sure if I should put it on one of the outbound tracks of the coal tower or have it on whatever trackage I have from the diesel house.

 Anyone willing to post pictures of their service area? I've searched the archives and DrWaynes is great and jecorbits is very impressive as well, but I can't seem to get a feel for distances with the low angle photos. Many of the other photos are only the red X.

Tom "dust is not weathering"
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Posted by Grampys Trains on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 9:22 AM

Here's a shot of mine, Tinman. DJ.

 

 

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Posted by doctorwayne on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 10:18 AM

I finally managed to add pictures to my previous post, so have re-posted it below.

Wayne

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Posted by markpierce on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 12:42 PM

tinman1

 I still need to get a water tower and ..., but I'm at a loss at how to fit this in a reasonable space

There's no need.  Imagine the water comes from a municipal pipeline or via a water tank at an off-layout location.  Model only the water plugs.

Mark

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Posted by odave on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 1:24 PM

Maybe this Bing Bird's Eye of the former GTW service area in Pontiac MI can help sort your buildings out.

  • The coaling tower and what's left of the loading shed can be seen in the lower-right.
  • I'm not sure where the ash pit was, but it was probably in the vicinity.
  • Also not sure about the water tower, but you can just model the plugs as mentioned above.
  • The turn table and the foundations of the roundhouse can be seen in the upper-left.  The turntable is still used to turn diesels today, and the roundhouse was actively used up until the late 1990s.  So there's nothing saying you need that Walther's diesel shop - the roundhouse can be used to stable all kinds of iron horses.
  • The shops could go where the brick building is still standing just to the right of the roundhouse foundations.
  • The long metal "shed" across the tracks between the coaling tower and the turntable is the diesel fueling pad.
  • The sanding tower can be seen poking up from the left-hand side of the fueling shed.

Not sure what kind of space you're looking at, but you might be able to compress that arrangement down some...

--O'Dave
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Posted by cuyama on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 3:12 PM

It can take quite a bit of room to get all those tracks connected at the proper spacings while leaving adequate clearances. Here's an example taken from a custom plan with many of the same Walthers components you are trying to fit.

For this view, I rotated the engine service area a bit from its orientation on the custom plan and did not reconnect all the leads -- but you can see it would take a bit more length. I used one track for both the ash pit gondola and the coaling tower coal supply and water cranes rather than a free-standing water tower The elevated water tank is the circle behind the roundhouse and shops. I probably should have added a pumphouse there, too.

The main tracks of the rest of the design are at the bottom of the image and the main visible yard was to down and to the right of this view.

That's a 1-foot grid and the 4X8 rectangle is just there for reference -- this definitely was not intended for a sacred sheet.

Byron

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Posted by doctorwayne on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 4:32 PM

Thanks for the kind words, Tom.

First off, a couple of comments. Unless you have a mix of coal- and oil-burning steamers, you don't need both an ash pit and an oil crane. Only coal burners require an ash pit, while the oil crane is for filling the oil bunker of the tender of an oil-burning loco.

Likewise, your coaling tower should already have an integral sandhouse, but, if not, it's easy to add a simple scratchbuilt one. Most coaling towers also had filler pipes for adding sand to a steamer's sand dome, and such a set-up will also work for diesels with their sand-fill hatches atop high hoods. For switchers and F-type-units, many railroads simply added a hose arrangement or two to the existing system.

If you're using water plugs/standpipes, it's not always necessary to also model the tank - in some locales, the tank might have it's own, attached, spout, and be located adjacent to the track, but also supply a standpipe farther down the track or on an adjacent track. In other instances, the tank could be located well away from the track (off-layout).

While a turntable is often a very useful element on a model railroad, it's a big space-eater. Add to that a roundhouse, engine shop, car shop, diesel shop, etc., etc. and you'll either soon run out of space or have to decide which elements are most important to your operational scheme. I couldn't fit a roundhouse and turntable into the area shown below, but, since my railroad is a point-to-point (-to-point) type, I felt that the turntable was the more important of these two elements. The already-built (40 years previously) roundhouse was dismantled and converted to the shop building shown.

This first view (all overhead views courtesy of Secord Air Services) shows the approach, from the west, to Lowbanks, the home-base for the Erie Northshore railroad. Visible at right, on the mainline, is a water tank with attached spout.  The edge of the associated pumphouse is just visible at extreme lower right, while the car shop is visible at upper right, beyond the derelict locomotive:

Here's another view from a little closer.  The car shop is at right, with the coaling tower next, and the turntable beyond and, finally, the loco shop.  You can see how crowded things are within the 30" depth of the layout:

Closer still, a view of the coaling tower.  With more linear space, the track for hoppers bringing coal for the tower and sand for the sandhouse (mostly hidden behind the tower) could have been extended and space provided for a gondola for cinder loading:

Here's a couple of views of the simple sandhouse which was added to the small Walthers coaling tower:

In this shot, you can also see the dry sand storage tank, also added to the Walthers kit:

This angle shows the original sand pipe for steam locos, silhouetted just beyond the coal chute, and the newer hose lines, one latched on each foreground leg of the tower, for servicing diesels.   While most of my diesels have been sold-off, the line does own a gas/electric, so I've left these hoses in place:


A look at the front of the loco shop.  Because of the limited space, I opted for a turnout beyond the turntable for shop access:  this makes the track on the right virtual useless for locomotives, so it's become a storage track for handcars.  (Looking at the photo, I'm wondering if it wouldn't be better to eliminate the turnout and that short fan track on which the inspection car is sitting - the track to the right-hand stall could then come directly off the turntable, perhaps rendering it more useful.)

Beyond the shop, I managed to squeeze-in this scratchbuilt overhead crane, which looks decent enough, although access to both tracks running through it is via the shop building. Whistling  Nestled beneath the far runway tracks of the crane is an oilhouse.  It's served by its own track, currently occupied by an empty Pennsy hopper:

Here's an example of standpipes serviced by a tower not immediately on the tracks (i.e. no spout). On the "High Line" (the as-yet-unballasted tracks at left), there are two standpipes, one just visible at the lower left-hand corner of the photo, the other between the tracks on the curve in the distance.  Both are supplied from the scratchbuilt water tank to the left of the distant standpipe:

I'll be adding another servicing area when I get around to building the second level of the layout.  That one will include a larger coaling tower, turntable, and roundhouse, along with an ashpit. There'll also be several standpipes, all served by a large water tower like this one, identical to that in the photo above:


 Wayne

 

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 4:45 PM

Wayne,

Those photos you posted are going to prove to be a conversation stopper. 

They are an absolutely wonderful example of a well thought out engine servicing facility.

Well done.  I sit in admiration of your work.

Rich

 

Alton Junction

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Posted by doctorwayne on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 6:27 PM
Thanks Rich, but I posted them more as examples of the compromises necessary due to the space limitations with which we're all faced. My servicing area is so cramped that my 90' turntable is only 87' long. Wayne
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Posted by tinman1 on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 7:55 PM

Great responses, this just made my otherwise rainy day (literally) bright.

DJ- some kind of error occured with your picture, but I guess I can say that mine is looking VERY similarLaugh

Mark-, I guess I didn't put that as clear as I could have. The water tank itself shouldn't pose much a problem since it doesn't have to be right on the tracks. I had figured that could go beyond the roundhouse somewhere. I was more talking about everything in general and that tower just got in there. ( I was getting ready for work and thinking of other things)  As for the plugs, I have 2, one to service both outbound tracks and one for the inbound. I figured I'd save a little room and split the oil crane between the inbound and 1 outbound track, but if it looked ok, I could put another oil crane with the water plug between the 2 outbounds. The thing I'm torn on is how far to space them from the coal tower.

O'Dave- I had not thought of putting the fueling rack before the coal tower. I hadn't planned on that much room between the turntable and coal tower either. I have moved these building around many times and thought the coaling tower being about a foot from the turntable looked good. I can't see what the fuel rack would look like until I get or make one. The roundhouse is pretty well spoken for with steam. Another issue I need to keep in mind is A-B diesel units with the 90' turntable, so I think I need to keep the fuel more towards their house.

 

Byron- That gives me a couple more options to look at. I keep trying to put the machine house on the turntable, but I don't think it looks right in the orientation I'm putting it in. I see the backshop and the trackage I'm somewhat needing to do and then I could place the machine shop there as well. The fuel rack could also be placed on these tracks. What is the block covering the two tracks just outside of the coaling tower? Most of this looks good, but I would have to get the yard tracks to the opposite side and keep the 48" width to a minimum.

doctorwayne- That is a nice looking area. I'll be placing a smaller area on "the other end" and hope I can capture that look. I really like that crane too. I have a much smaller version (Walthers 25ton) and was looking at using it on a teamtrack/ backshop since it's a little light for engines. As for the ashpit and oil, yes I'm aware of the difference. I drive an oil burning truck- it doesn't require an ashpit, it more needs a drip panSmile,Wink, & Grin. I'm planning on both coal and oil burners, with a sprinkle of early fuel squeezers as well. The coaling tower is the square one , and no, it does not come with any sanding capabilities as manufactured. I could put one on using what I have as a last resort, but I have some room to work with for this area but don't want to go too overboard either, since I need a yard attached that fits the service area. If you were not bound by your narrow width, would you have gone about yours a little differently? Approx how long is your area? I'm thinking it's 7' or so and 18-20" wide, judging from the pictures. Your's looks very proportionate in my view, which I hope I can achieve in the larger area.

Tom "dust is not weathering"
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Posted by cuyama on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 11:22 PM

tinman1

What is the block covering the two tracks just outside of the coaling tower?

That's the Walthers Cinder Conveyer and Ash Pit footprint -- you wouldn't need it for oil burning engines (but I guess you've got both coal and oil).

Even so, many (most?) of the oil burning engine facilities I'm familar with on the real thing did have an inspection pit on an inbound lead, a detail that is rarely modeled due to space constraints and/or lack of awareness.

 Byron

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Posted by doctorwayne on Tuesday, May 11, 2010 11:30 PM
tinman1
...If you were not bound by your narrow width, would you have gone about yours a little differently? Approx how long is your area? I'm thinking it's 7' or so and 18-20" wide, judging from the pictures.
The layout here is 30" wide, but, as I'm not home at the moment, I'd guess the length, from the water tower to the end of the crane runway to be about 12'. Actually, the width was less of a constriction than the length, as I had created the river (just east of the water tower and partially visible in the first photo) which then dictated how much room I had left to create a semblance of a town to the south of the main line and the servicing area to the north. With a little more length, I would have included an ashpit, and maybe spread things out a bit more. I had originally started with a track plan,of sorts, for a larger room, but family needs grabbed some of the available space, so I tossed the plan and simply started laying roadbed around the room. My main concern was how to get a partially-double-decked layout without making the grades too steep. Ideas for towns, industries, and scenery just sort of presented themselves, and the space constraints gave me no choice but to be creative or forego certain elements. I'm anxious to get working on the second level, the completion of which will finally allow operations, but I've still got a lot of car and locomotive work to get finished first. Wayne
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Posted by markpierce on Wednesday, May 12, 2010 12:04 AM

cuyama

Even so, many (most?) of the oil burning engine facilities I'm familar with on the real thing did have an inspection pit on an inbound lead, a detail that is rarely modeled due to space constraints and/or lack of awareness.

Inspection pits were usually within roundhouses and engine houses during the steam era.  Oh, what the heck... Why not abandone those ancient facilities and use a sugar beet dump pit for inspections like a California central coast shortline railroad does.

 

 

Mark

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Posted by tinman1 on Wednesday, May 12, 2010 8:57 AM

Doctorwayne, boy did I underestimate the size of yours. If I didn't have a fascinatation with the roundhouse this would be a lot easier. Still, 12' is enough room for what I've got, its just wider.

Byron, believe it or not, I have been using one of the inspection pits from the roundhouse out on the inbound lead, which adds another foot to the length of the lead. I moved my buildings around to resemble your plan. It seems a little tight in places and needs a bit more shuffling to get the trackwork in. I'm going to use some blue tape to represent the tracks later on today.

Mark, but I don't have any beets on my trains!!!

Tom "dust is not weathering"
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Posted by cuyama on Wednesday, May 12, 2010 8:59 AM

markpierce

Inspection pits were usually within roundhouses and engine houses during the steam era. 

That may be true generally, especially in colder climes. But in the west, I've found quite a few were outside, even when a roundhouse or enginehouse was present.

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Posted by tinman1 on Wednesday, May 12, 2010 9:46 AM

cuyama

markpierce

Inspection pits were usually within roundhouses and engine houses during the steam era. 

That may be true generally, especially in colder climes. But in the west, I've found quite a few were outside, even when a roundhouse or enginehouse was present.

It actually makes sense to me having a pit on the inbound lead as well as in the roundhouse, and as for the cold, I never thought the railroads were that concerned about worker comfort. The only advantage I see with NOT having a pit on the inbound is not tying up the track while the inspection is going on, but on the other hand, the roundhouse isn't guaranteed to have an open stall either (I have many engines that need workSmile,Wink, & Grin) I picked up a motor yesterday to re-motor a brass engine and decided to do it in DCC. Thats a first for me, and I'll try it out at the LHS to see if I like it. I just wish they sold plugs so I can 'unplug' the DCC and run on DC while I'm doing all my engines.

Tom "dust is not weathering"
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Posted by UncBob on Wednesday, May 12, 2010 10:57 AM

 I have the sand gondola and coal supply  hopper on the same track and the ash pit conveyor is across from the sand box so that after the sand is unloaded the ashes can be dumped into it

I am going to add a diesel fueling pump and tank after the Water tank 

 

 

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ME&O

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Posted by UncBob on Wednesday, May 12, 2010 11:05 AM

 Here is a pic of the inspection pit at Strasburg in the engine house

 

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ME&O

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Posted by tinman1 on Thursday, May 13, 2010 8:44 PM

After staring at the buildings setup similar to Byrons drawing for a couple days and pondering the length and width of doctorwaynes facilities, I think I might to better to stretch the service area out a little more to get the diesel and machine shop away from the roundhouse a little more. This is going on a perimeter wall with no access from the rear and that 48" depth was getting out of hand. The diesel house seemed to tower over the roundhouse and just looks out of place. Putting it to the rear creates problems with reach with  tracks that could create issues. I had thought about placing the yard at the end of the service area originally, but now am thinking of running them along parts of the service area and get some more switching there. That's going to let me pull down to 30/32 inches and a length of 16-18ft I think. Overall, I'm willing to go 24ft for a whole 'industrial/city' type scene. I might drop a river in at the end to somewhat explain why it couldn't be longer and maybe I can fit in that Walthers swing bridge.

I guess I'll have to set up another temporary sheet of plywood and start playing musical buildings and put down lots of blue tape as tracks.

Tom "dust is not weathering"

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