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Looking for track finishing tips to ensure smooth operation...

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  • Member since
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  • From: Newmarket, ON Canada
  • 334 posts
Looking for track finishing tips to ensure smooth operation...
Posted by Aralai on Tuesday, March 23, 2010 12:34 PM

 My track is laid, and I have run my trains forward and reverse at various speeds. I have made some adjustments at places that have caused problems - one where a transition to a trestle had a slight difference in track height, and other where a joined section needed to be smoother.

I'm looking for tips to finish the track to ensure smooth operation. Should I file down places where the track joins if it is a little rough? Should I fill any larger gaps or leave them? If so, how do you file them, or fill? It does not seem like any gaps cause any trouble - more if the track height is slightly different or the horizontal alignment is slightly off.

Comments?

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Posted by Gary UK on Tuesday, March 23, 2010 1:00 PM

Il give you some sound advice from my experiance from 2 big layouts. I cut some corners on my first layout and lived to regret it for a long time, I learnt alot of harsh lessons from the first and now my second is 100% derailment free all the time. Only time i get derailments is from user error and collisions from user error.Whistling

My best advice would be "flat and perfectly level". The biggest derailment risk is track "twist", that is where one rail is higher than the other over to short a distance. Think of it as having a coin under one end of the ties for just an example or maybe a poorly alligned benchwork join. Twist is also especially bad in real life railroads for causing derailments. Its worse for our models as they do not have any springing or compensation to dampen out this twist. Sure, you have built in twist in the real thing but its very gradual and 'designed' into the track, such as 'super elevation' in curves from straight to curved track.

The upshot is, make sure your track is perfectly flat and level, especially over benchwork joins, dont under estimated it on a long rigid freight car, it will derail on less than flat track! Been there, done that!

Check with a steel rule across the joins, if it rocks its not good and if the track crosses it at an angle, you'l have a derailment prone twist there, i garrantee it!

If you got grades, make sure the transition from level to rising is a gradual one.

The second thing i done wrong on my first layout was to put all the joints tight. Fine in the winter but when the summer came and it got hot, i had buckles and kinks where the expanding rail had no where to go! Ofcourse its not such an issue IF you can control the temperature better in your train room, for me it was more difficult as my train room is outside in an out building more suseptible to changes in temperature and humidity.

My advice in this instance is to leave a small gap, every 2 yards if using flex track, it dosnt need to be much, maybe thickness of the card on a ciggerete packet. Dont put them all tight.

As regards to filling joins, if you used the right rail in the right joiners, you shouldnt realy have to! Ive sometimes seen (or felt) a little roughness at joins, i'l just use a few pases with an abrasive track rubber or very fine emery paper. I dont like to use files on any rails surface as it leaves behind scorring which attracts dirt after a few hours of wheels passing over.

Thats my two cents worth, hope it helps.

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Posted by MisterBeasley on Tuesday, March 23, 2010 2:46 PM

Get a big steam engine with lots of wheels.  Get the longest passenger and freight cars that will run on your curves.  If you model Late Transition or Modern, borrow a steamer from someone who has seen the light.

Steamers will find every little kink in your trackwork.  If you can get a big steam loco to run around your tracks over and over, in both directions, in forward and reverse, without derailing then chances are you'll be able to run anything else that's not defective.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Posted by HHPATH56 on Tuesday, March 23, 2010 8:00 PM
Many of us use code 83 track for the main line and code 100 for spurs. You can purchase, "Transition Joiners", which compensate for the difference in height of the two codes. Does the trestle have track installed on it ? Check the height of the track on the trestle, compared to the track, to which it is joined. I have a lot of transitions between code 100 and code 83 on my layout, which have transition joiners. NEVER use a file on track to change it's height. I only use a fine file to get rid of any burrs, (that are formed by using a track cutter). Bob Hahn
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Posted by selector on Tuesday, March 23, 2010 9:01 PM

Everything, pretty much, that I have learned in this hobby I learned here and on other fora.  Chuck Beckman posted quite a few years back that one of his cardinal rules is to dress the two most important surfaces on the rail heads, and they would be the flange face and the tire surface within 1/8" of the nip or cut.  Take a good metal file and, holding it at about a 10 degree angle to the end of the rail, file gentle cam surfaces on the flange face and the top surface of the rail.  This really helps the flanges to keep from snagging if the joins are a wee bit wide or sloppy for some reason. 

This is especially important if you are running six axle diesels or many coupled driver sets on steamers around radii that are near or at the stated minimums for the particular engine.

Ditto, too, on the even transverse height of the rails.  If your roadbed is a bit wobbly, and one rail dips, or if it rises, particularly near a turnout, don't be surprised if one engine gives you fits and derails there.  It can also be on a vertical transition, or on a curve.  Even superelevation can confound you if you don't get it right.  A dip at one truck levers the frame opposite end as much, and you can lift flanges that guide the engine around curves and through turnouts enough that they no longer contact the rail.  They'll allow the engine frame to move tangentially as a preference, and that means no longer following the curve.  Oops.

Generally, find ways to widen the curves on your layout, and do dress all rail ends...including on the commercial or handlaid turnouts you use!  Make sure your roadbed doesn't have dips that will make one rail even a half millimeter higher than the other near curves, on curves, near turnouts, on turnouts.  I can't tell you how much track I have shimmed when a new engine refuses to go over tracks that every other engine I own flies over.

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Posted by bogp40 on Tuesday, March 23, 2010 10:49 PM

Actually, the rail expands very little due to heat. The summer heat usually brings higher humidity. The moisture absorbed expands the benchwork, hence, the changing rail gaps.

Modeling B&O- Chessie  Bob K.  www.ssmrc.org

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  • From: Newmarket, ON Canada
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Posted by Aralai on Wednesday, March 24, 2010 8:58 AM

 I appreciate all the responses. The trestle does have Code 83 on it, and the rest of my track is Code 100. I did use the transition joiners, but they seemed a bit finicky and I still had to work to make sure the tops of the track were level. Maybe they are not the best transition joiners? I see what you mean about the track being level and only certain cars/engines derailing. I have a short cement car that seems to be the most trouble - particularly over turnouts - maybe it is too light. For the most part, the track seems pretty good, but I'm going to spend some time making sure it is great before I move on to any scenery.

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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, March 24, 2010 9:10 AM

 I may have over-read it, but I am missing a basic, but vital advice.

Get a NMRA track gauge and  check, whether your track and switches are in gauge!

Do the same with your wheel sets of your cars and locos. Check them, whether they are free rolling. Weigh your cars and add weight, if necessary.

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Posted by Hamltnblue on Wednesday, March 24, 2010 8:54 PM

 Agreed. At first you'll think everyone is crazy because your layout runs great with the one or 2 feeds you have. But over a couple of years the joiners will start showing their age and dead spots and other problems will arise. You'll be posting here asking what is wrong and in the end you'll be soldering away.

Springfield PA

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Posted by BATMAN on Thursday, March 25, 2010 12:16 PM

 Dress every rail end with a file ( I thank Crandell for that advice) It makes it much easier to get those joiners on and removes the bumps. Make sure every tie has support under it.Whistling And use a level and don't be lazy. Get it right the first time.

 

 

                                                                     Brent                                                               

Brent

"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."

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Posted by johnday on Friday, May 28, 2010 12:30 PM

Could you go into a little more detail on dressing track. I aocciate the flane with the rail adjacent to the Frog. Is that what yo file/ As for head , is the purpose of filing to make the edn  (1/8 inch) slope slightly? Sorry I'm so obtuse. Your patience appreciated.

JDAY 

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Posted by Allegheny2-6-6-6 on Saturday, May 29, 2010 12:11 AM

Aralai

 My track is laid, and I have run my trains forward and reverse at various speeds. I have made some adjustments at places that have caused problems - one where a transition to a trestle had a slight difference in track height, and other where a joined section needed to be smoother.

I myself am no fan of transition rail joiners, I would opt to either change the rails on the bridge to code 100 if possible if not then use Walthers transition tracks sections on either side

 

I'm looking for tips to finish the track to ensure smooth operation. Should I file down places where the track joins if it is a little rough?

Care always needs to be taken when filing track, you need to go very lightly with a file if you go too hard you can cause dips and irregularities that will do more harm then if you left them alone. Actually you should only need to file the ends of the rails after cutting them with a rail nipper such as when you cut sections of flex track, If your filing joints to make a smooth transition between tracks you need to go back a step and re-fit your track. Something is definitely not right if you need to do this

 

Should I fill any larger gaps or leave them? If so, how do you file them, or fill? It does not seem like any gaps cause any trouble - The short answer you should not have any gaps, you need to take the track back up and relay it so the rails nut tightly to each other a very minimal gap is some what acceptable. Don't be concerned with leaving gaps for the purpose of expansion and contraction. Yes tack does expand and contract but it's more a case of the bench work doing the expansion and contraction rather then the steel rails. I extreme case you can see the track lift off come off of the roadbed and occasionally separate from the ties,. but unless you have extreme changes in temperature and humility in your train room you not going to see this happen.

 

more if the track height is slightly different or the horizontal alignment is slightly off.

Your track height from section to section should not be different, even when the track is making the transition up a grade the rail heights should be the same. Sounds like you need to do some sanding perhaps on your roadbed If not you have a sure fire recipe for disaster on your hands.

Comments?

The bottom line is I seriously hope your track is not glued down or ballasted etc.The track is the spinal cord of your entire layout. It should be down and running flawlessly for quite some time before you even consider gluing it permanently into place or detailing, ballasting etc.I've been doing this a long long time and still leave nothing to chance. I have piece of rolling stock handy preferably a nice heavy weight passenger car handy when I putting track in place and  make sure it rolls nice and smooth before going on to the next section. As mentioned long pieces of rolling stock and locomotives with a lot of wheels such as large steam engines or big six axle road diesels  are typically the finickiest runners. So when they roll through nice and smooth you'll be confident that you'll have years of good operations.

I don't mean to sound like a wet blanket but from what I'm reading by your posting it sounds like you need to take up your track work and start over. Believe me when I say if you don't and try and put band-aid fixes on your track work the most you'll ever wind up with if your really good with scenery is a nice diorama with some trains in it.

Don't ask me how I know all these things

 
Just my 2 cents worth, I spent the rest on trains. If you choked a Smurf what color would he turn?
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Posted by selector on Saturday, May 29, 2010 1:28 AM

johnday

Could you go into a little more detail on dressing track. I aocciate the flane with the rail adjacent to the Frog. Is that what yo file/ As for head , is the purpose of filing to make the edn  (1/8 inch) slope slightly? Sorry I'm so obtuse. Your patience appreciated.

JDAY 

 

The flange is the sharp raised ring running around the inner circumference of the tire (or tread, you could call it) of the wheels of all kinds on items that ride on the rails.  The flanges will catch gaps, particularly larger ones, and particularly ones with sharp inner edges, and even more especially the tighter a curve is in radius.  It is best to widen curves first, secondly to dress the two edges at each rail segment end, and thirdly to reduce gaps to the extent they look good and don't impeded rail expansion if you have wooden framework for a layout and many soldered joints between the rail segments.

When we say dress, we mean hold a metal file at a shallow angle, just a bit off parallel to the surface with which the flat side of the file is aligned, and file a little bevel there.  Do this for the face of the rail, the inner vertical one on the head where the flanges might rub, and also for the top surface where the tires run.  Here is a diagram I drew up quickly.  The beveled faces are shaded:

 

I would say 1/8" with a slope would be the most you would want.  Really all you need is about 1/16" and the equivalent of a 3% grade.

-Crandell

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Posted by IRONROOSTER on Saturday, May 29, 2010 2:53 AM

In addition to the above

I use a suraform plane to smooth my cork roadbed before track laying

I put an eye down at track level to sight along the track to make sure there are no kinks.

I also run a finger over the joints to make sure the top and inside of the rail heads is smooth.   If not, I grind a little with my Dremel.

Enjoy

Paul

If you're having fun, you're doing it the right way.
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Posted by Allegheny2-6-6-6 on Saturday, May 29, 2010 9:38 AM

 Another very useful tip for checking to see if your track is straight and true is one I picked up from a video, the layout builder puts a flashlight on top of the rails and gets down at eye level and looks straight down both rails should be reflecting the light if you see one side thats not your track is out of gage. I've tried it and it does work.

Just my 2 cents worth, I spent the rest on trains. If you choked a Smurf what color would he turn?
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Posted by tomikawaTT on Sunday, May 30, 2010 5:01 PM

One thing that hasn't been mentioned, as a long-term investment in smooth operation, is to put the proper finish on the rails - a gleamed finish.

First, make sure there are no burrs or droplets of solder on either the top or the flange-side surface of all railheads.  If there are, smooth them out with a fine file and finer sandpaper.

After thoroughly wiping down with your favorite solvent cleaner, followed by a clean absorbant pad, apply a good quality metal polish (sparingly, please.  It doesn't take much) to the rails and buff them with something solid, but non-abrasive.  Pieces of cork roadbed have been suggested.  I get good results with dense extruded foam.  When finished, wipe the rails clean.

Finally, mount a large stainless steel washer (the kind used for auto body work) on a piece of dowel or other wood, and use it to rub the tops of the rails until they gleam.  The wood provides a useful handle.

You have now guaranteed that you can run for, literally, years without having to mount a major track cleaning campaign.  My oldest sections of gleamed Atlas Code 100 flex have been lifted and re-laid, and have been operated over regularly, for five years since they were 'gleamed.'  The most serious cleaning they have had during that time has been an occasional 'quick lick and a promise' with a dry paper towel.  My layout is in a garage with open vents to the outdoors in an area where airborne dust is a given.

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

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