I am working on my design for a HO switching layout. I know that a #6 switch is best for a switching layout but wanted to know if a #4 "snap" switch could be used effectively instead since the trains will be moving at a low speed.
A #4 Customline turnout is NOT the same as a Snap-Switch. The Snap-Switch has a continuous 18" radius curve through it, and divirges at a 20 degree angle. The Atlas Customline #4 divirges at a 12.5 degree angle. With the Snap-Switch, you will get some nasty 'S' curves if you try to make a crossover. I would suggest using the Customline turnouts and stay away from the Snap-Switches - They were designed for sectional track layouts years ago.
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
If your running smaller engines like 0-4-0 or 0-6-0 steam engines or small four axle road switchers like an RS3 or switcher engines like SW1500 etc. #4 turnouts will work ok but if your running anything larger you will need #6 turnouts. And you may want to look into powering the frogs on all your turnouts. If you run at prototypical yard speeds of 5mph you may experience a lot of stalling when you cross over the non powered frog.
My plan is to run modern era layout using four axel locos (gp-38s or gp-15s).
hi team,
not only the engines count. The Atlas #4 snaptrack switches have a 18"radius. According to Byron Henderson even smaller at certain places.
With modern longer freightcars I would go for Lance Mindheim's standards for small switching layouts; a 24"radius and #6 switches. His latest book "Design a Small Switching Layout" is very good.
BTW because the snaps have a diverging curve they should not be used in a crossover.
Paul
I use a lot of Atlas Snap Switches and have very little trouble with them. But, I run mostly 4-axle diesels and 40-foot freight cars, and my mainlines also have 18-inch radius curves, so that's the acceptable standard on my layout anyway.
My big gripe with them, particularly in Code 100, is the large,ugly switch machines. I typically bury them under scenery.
The frogs on snap switches are plastic, so you can't power them. However, the turnouts themselves are all through-wired anyway, so you don't have to worry about electrical continuity. It generally doesn't depend on which way the points are set.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Just a side note. Yard speed normally is the same as restricted speed, maintain control being prepared to stop ect ect not to exceed 15mph. If it was the last cut of the day and we needed to kill time yard speed was 5 mph or less, if we were going to beans or home after a cut yard speed may have been what ever speed would stay on the rails. Thought you might like a little humor in the day.
Gee, d91. Sounds like what somebody I used to work with talking about being a brakeman on the local streel plant railway. At end of Shift, sometimes he'd be on a 1948 NW-2 racing a 1968 SW1001 for the house on parallel track for the turnout to their parking spots by the enginehouse. Otherwise, they were as strict on the rules and speed limits as schedules and the dispatcher would allow.
According to the current roster, both NW-2s bought in Feb 1948 and the SW-1001 bought in Sep 1968 are still active, as well as some other NW-2s, SW-8s, SW-9s, and SW-1001s and 3 1980s era slugs are still operational. Most of the locos are now RC.
Nothing better than a drag race between to old geeps. I guess we better get back on topic.
I now have 4 number 4 Atlas on my layout and have no real problems with my bigger engines. Guess I was lucky when it came to the turnouts. My GE AC 6000's, Eries, Dash 9 and my Hudson will take them with no problem. But, I do prefer the number 6's.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
cudaken I now have 4 number 4 Atlas on my layout and have no real problems with my bigger engines. Guess I was lucky when it came to the turnouts. My GE AC 6000's, Eries, Dash 9 and my Hudson will take them with no problem. But, I do prefer the number 6's.
The Snap-Switches are much tighter (more like a #3) and toy like. The Snap Switches do not have a continuous curve through them as a prior poster noted, but that means to be the equivalent of an 18" radius curve some parts of them have to be tighter (as yet another prior poster already noted). See photos near the end of this thread http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/163355/1802014.aspx#1802014.
Summary Atlas Custom Line #4 . Atlas Snap Switches .
Actually I have intentionally and successfully used Atlas Snap Switches, but I knew what they were when I did it. Using them by mistake as a substitution for a #4 or especially an Atlas #4 can be a big mess.
Both of my yards are all snap switches for the ladders, and my 40-50 foot quality rolling stock has no problems. This was done to maximize yard capacity.
However, the entraces to the yards, crossover tracks and A/D (arrival/departure) tracks and all tracks leading to engine service use #6 custom line.
This arrangement works very well, and allows larger road power locos such as 4-8-2 and six axle diesels to utilize only the straight leg of the snap switch to get where they need to go.
Incidently I have sucessfully backed many of those same locos through the diverging snap switch route with a carefull and slow speed approach.
So if I wanted to I could go with a #4 customline with no real problems with slow speeds? I don't plan on running any cars longer than a 56 footer and from the information I gathers that should be no problem. Correct?
I'm using all Custom-Line #4's, all my equipment is 4-axle diesels and my rolling stock is almost all under 50' in length - 40' boxcars and even shorter double hoppers. No problems. On my previous layout I had a mix of #6 and #4, everything I had could go through the 4's although usually not at ludicrous speed. The #6's I could fly through even with larger locos like a 4-8-4 or a GG1. Even full-length passenger cars with diaphragms went through the 4's, as long as I kept the speed down. As noted, the Atlas #4 is really a #4.5 if you measure the angle, so it is slightly less tight then a 'real' #4 from someone else. Even a 'real' #4 is not as tight as a Snap-Switch.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I use Atlas Snap-Switches on my Black River Valley layout. Except for a pair of crossovers that use Atlas #6 turnouts all of the other turnouts (11) are Snap-Switches.
I run a wide variety of motive power and rolling stock on the layout. My large diesels, FP-45s, PAs and SD-40-2s-2 pass through them without problems. Our large steam locos, an Athearn Challenger (4-6-6-4), NYC Niagara and numerous other 4-8-4s negotiate the Snap Switches easily.
Long rolling stock, as long as it is properly weighted passes through the SSs too. I have several scale Walthers passenger cars in several liveries that have no problems with the small switches either. I routinely back 8-10 car passenger trains through them.
While they are far from prototypical they have given me good service. A few have required 'tuning' to ensure reliable tracking, the problems I have had have always been traced to my track work or to improperly set up cars.
Someone mentioned the ugly switch machines that detract from the appearance of the track work. I solved that problem by converting the stock switch machines to under table machines. The methodology is on my website. Go to the How'd You Do that page and click on the thumbnail of the switch machine.
IMHO the Snap-Switch is reliable and effective, particularly on a small layout where space is at a premium. They can be used with confidence if you are willing to compromise looks for space.
Remember its your railroad
Allan
Track to the BRVRR Website: http://www.brvrr.com/
Hi team,
The #4's are ok, but not in crossovers when you are running longer modern cars. For anything longer then 50 feet I would go for a #6 in a crossover.
As said before many times immaculate trackwork, easements, a soft hand on the throttle and some (or a lot) tinkering with equipment can make all the difference.
John Armstrong called it: reliable operation through setting standards.
If you study Lance Mindheims books about designing a small switching layout, you can see that #6's are often quite possible.