Crest Train Engineer

[Anonymous]

Any input or experience with the Crest Train Engineer or other types of radio control? How does it compare to DCC? Please be nice, I am new!!![:D]
Tim

[cacole]

It's my understanding that the Crest is for outdoor G-scale trains. One system does nothing but control the voltage fed to the track by the power pack, and another requires on-board receivers in the locomotives. What scale are you modeling in? I think the Crest system would be too big for indoor HO or smaller.

[Anonymous]

I am modelling HO. the Crest CRE-55000 is called the HO Train Engineer. It is relatively new and built specifically for HO. I have not used DCC, and know very little about it, so I don't know how the two would compare. I will not be running my trains on someone else's track, and others won't be using mine, so compatibility with other layouts is not a concern. Ease of operation and simplicity of installation would be the key. Because the operation is built using R/F, I would think no special wiring or layout changes are required, but as with most things, I want to research it to death to be sure I make the right choice for me. If anyone is interested, the site is
http://www.aristocraft.com/catalog/crest/trainengineer/whitepaper/

[cacole]

I just looked at the Crest Train Engineer CRE-55000 manual on their Web site. Some things I would consider before purchasing it:

It is very similar to DCC -- you have to put a receiver in each locomotive that you want to control. The biggest difference seems to be that the Crest is a proprietary system that is not NMRA DCC compliant so only Crest receivers will work with it.

Over the long haul, it may cost more for Crest receivers than NMRA-compliant decoders, which are available from several manufacturers and dropping in price to around $15 each, depending on brand and number of functions that can be controlled.

You also run the risk of this system not selling well enough to continue in business, leaving you with an orphaned system that you can't get receivers or parts for, like the people who use CTC, the forerunner of DCC.

Crest was developed by Polk's Hobby Shop for G-scale is is being downsized to fit O and HO.

I looked at the Crest system for my G-scale equipment, but settled on the AirWire 900 from CVP Products, which is NMRA compliant, so decoders will be easy to acquire.

[dragenrider]

I use Aristo Craft radio control on my HO layout. This is the exact same system Crest now markets, possibly bought from Aristo Craft. I have had the system for almost five years and I'm thrilled with it! [:D] It's one big reason I'm not switching to DCC. The emergency switch at the bottom is a life saver, too! Not to mention the very fine speed control changes you can't do with other systems. (I just tried this month-Infrared sucks!)

I placed a radio receiver between each of my two power packs. The hand held control unit can be switched back and forth between the two. Using block wiring, I can run two trains simultaneously, switching quickly back and forth for speed adjustments as needed. All the plugs are in a power strip so I can shut everything off with one switch after play time.

I'd highly recommend this system to anyone! Feel free to email with specific questions: [e-mail]

[dragenrider]

May I also add that the joy of walking along beside your freight train and controlling it's actions without being tied to a control panel is something straight from heaven! [angel][:D]

Just picture switching at eye level with hand thrown turnouts and a slow speed engine!

[jwar]

I too am looking very closley at Crest. What looks great is that it doesent have the problems that DCC has, dirty track and loss of signal, or other short circuit problems with frogs and wheelsets. Also looking at a 10 amp filtered dc trasformer, approx 57 bucks. Over all it sounds great to me but wondering why its not used more....by hobbyist. MR needs to do an article on it...I'm presently using three transformers on 120 feet of track and do not want to invest in a lot of boosters and other add ons as on a tight budget. I too would love to hear about the pros and cons.

[robengland]

I go along with "cacole". I work in the software business. One of the things technical people are prone to is choosing technology because of the neat features. There is more to it. Does it have momemntum? no not that kind: how many people use it? is the number growing? how many forums and other sources of info are there on it? if I take my train down to a club to run, can I? etc etc You can be a rugged loner if you want but you will find answers harder to come by and one day you may find th emnaufacturer gone and parts and new components non existent.

In response to some of the points made:
I got a hint from one comment that maybe Crest only works with one train and you still need block control to run multiple trains? If so it sounds to me like combining the worst features of DC and DCC: more complex gear, on-board componetns required in the loco, and still need miles of complex wiring and switches and can't get the locos up close to each other....
As to DCC being finnicky about cleanliness and frogs etc.... yes it is but really it just requires the standards we should work to anyway and doesn't forgive sloppiness. Once you get track to DCC standard you will experience levels of reliability that allow us to enjoy what MR is really all about: running trains.

[nfmisso]

Functionally, the Crest system for HO is like DCC in all but one aspect. With the Crest HO system the signal is radio to each locomotive (several real models can be wired together to form one locomotive for control purposes). Power can come from the track or batteries. A Crest equipped locomotive can run on a DCC layout - no issues.

DCC, the signal gets to the locomotive through the rails.

Currently, DCC supports more locomotive addresses.

The Large Scale Crest system is somewhat different, in that it is radio control of the power pack, rather than r/c of the train.

The biggest issue with the Crest system, as mentioned several times above, is that it is sole sourced.

[dragenrider]

nfmisso, are you sure that's not backwards? My system for my HO railroad controls two power pack's current to the rails via block wiring. I thought the larger scales were loco direct via engine mounted radio receivers.

Let me say again how much I enjoy my radio control system. It's wire free, very accurate in its control, and transmits from anywhere in my house. I've tried other forms of direct current control including infrared, but this one beats them all. Cheaper than DCC, too. I can only keep up with two trains at a time, anyway.

[Anonymous]

My N-scale Plainfield Lines layout was wired for cab control. It has with about 60 feet of linear bench work to walk along. One cab was fixed, and the other tethered. Plugging and unplugging the tethered cab as you walked with your train took the fun out of operating. I bought the basic Crest controller. It took 5 minutes to wire between my existing power pack and track. It works fantastically!! The amount of control it provides for slow starts and stops is great. The throttle works from anywhere in my house. This allows a "ghost" train to operate late at night when guests are trying to sleep in the family room next to the train room.

[Anonymous]

I purchased the Aristo radio control unit about six years ago. For the size of my layout (modest) and my style of operation (myself, alone), it was perfect. I'm in the midst of building a new, larger layout and will wire it for DCC just-in-case.
Nonetheless, I will no doubt start out with the Aristo and perhaps will never convert.


John Timm

[nfmisso]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dragenrider

nfmisso, are you sure that's not backwards? My system for my HO railroad controls two power pack's current to the rails via block wiring. ......

From:
http://www.aristocraft.com/catalog/crest/trainengineer/whitepaper/index.html#HO%20TRAIN%20ENGINEER%20CRE-55000

"CREST has developed a on-board Train Engineer System specifically for HO trains. The Radio Command Control (RCC) HO Train Engineer is based on the NMRA (National Model Railroad Association) standards for and compatible with Digital Command Control (DCC) systems. However, where DCC sends a coded signal through the tracks to control locomotives, RCC sends its signal via R/F. This ends the signal loss problem associated with dirt on the track and wheels of the locomotives. Like the On-Board Train Engineer for large scale the track is used as a source of electrical power only.
The RCC HO Train Engineer is designed for the individuals who wi***o "run their trains, not their track". Instead of varying the voltage to the track in conventional DC operations RCC directly controls the locomotives. Track voltage remains constant ending the need for a complicated blocking system or separate tracks for separate trains. With RCC all trains operate independently on the same track at the same time using a single power supply.

The RCC system gives you the benefits of DCC systems without the complication and costly components. There is no centralized control system or signal boosters. There is no additional wiring that needs to be installed or re-wiring of your railroad. The RCC system simply requires a linear power supply providing clean 12 volts DC, the HO Train Engineer Transmitter and the HO Train Engineer Receivers.

There is often a "Learning Curve" associated with DCC systems. DCC systems can take a significant amount of time and effort to learn. RCC is much easier to learn than DCC systems. Instead of many hours of reading manuals and weeks to learn how to operate your layout with DCC, RCC can be learned in minutes. There is little or no learning curve with RCC.

There are additional advantages that the RCC system has over DCC. With RCC there are 256 steps. Typically, there are 128 steps with DCC systems. Each step represents a small change in voltage being sent to the motor of the locomotive. More steps translate to more control over the locomotives. Because of the greater amount of steps, RCC provides smoother speed control for trains then DCC systems.

The HO Train Engineer Transmitter CRE-55003 is capable of controlling up to ten trains from 60 to 100 feet away. Typically, HO layouts are smaller and more compact than large scale so the 300 foot range of the Train Engineer was not needed. The R/F signal was designed to operate on a 75 MHz FM band to allow for a shorter antenna on the receiver. Finally, we added Post Code Modulation (PCM) to the FM signal. A coded signal is sent along the FM carrier preventing most interference from spurious signals. The receiver is designed to respond only to the coded information it receives from the transmitter.

Furthermore, the RCC HO Train Engineer has many of the same features as the Train Engineer system. There is a ten frequency and ten track channel capability allowing one transmitter to control up to one hundred receivers. The transmitter allows you to choose the momentum ratios from several different settings. Another feature causes the locomotive to pause before changing direction. This feature helps prevent damage of the locomotive's motor and gearing caused by forces involved with sudden electrical direction change.

In addition to these and other functions of the Train Engineer, The RCC HO Train Engineer adds additional functions including a memory function and an "All Stop" feature. The memory function allows for the ability of the locomotive to automatically return to its previous speed and direction in the event power to the locomotive is lost and restored. The "All Stop" feature allows for the operator to stop all trains being controlled by the transmitter. These features add a flexibility that is unheard of in other HO Scale control systems including DCC.

The HO Train Engineer Receivers CRE-55001 are compact and fit into most HO Scale locomotives. They come equipped with the NMRA standard 8 pin plug for connection to DCC sockets provided in many locomotives. Functionally, they are very similar to the On-Board Receivers for large scale locomotives.

Linking between the receiver and transmitter is done in a simple and unique fashion. The often complicated decoder acquiring process associated with DCC systems does not exist. There are no unique two to four digit addresses that need to be remembered and assigned to each locomotive. Instead, linking of the RCC HO Train Engineer transmitter and receiver is done with the swipe of a magnet and the pushing of a button."

[Anonymous]

I think there is some confusion here about the two modes supported by the Aristocraft / Crest Electronics systems. In one system (I think the original system but I'm not sure), there is a largish receiver for each block; in the other system (I think introduced fairly recently), there is a small receiver inside each locomotive.

Although I see why some would think that the former system (receiver for each block) is "the worst of both worlds", in fact this does have a couple of advantages. (1) It allows folks with traditionally block-wired DC systems to obtain some of the advantages of DCC without re-wiring their layouts. (2) There is a clear trade-off: how many blocks do you have, versus how many locomotives?

For example, my previous layout (dismantled for a house move; now planning the new one) had two large dogbones connected by a shared terminal / staging yard at one end, and a small terminal and reversing track between them in the middle. I chose to operate the whole system treating each dogbone as a single block. The terminals had multipe blocks but only one train was active in each one at a time. I used an "analog" Crest system very effectively, because I cycled my (ridiculously large) collection of locomotives through the layout in sets (i.e. this week we are doing mainline N&W steam, next week N&W branchline, etc.) and thus had the advantages of wireless control without the cost and hassle of installing a decoder or receiver in every engine.

If you have a large number of blocks the system quickly becomes costly and cumbersome, especially because of the potential power consumption.

On the other hand, personally, I'd be wary of using the Crest "DCC" system because you are talking about a large investment of time and money for a system that has qeustionable commercial staying power.

[Anonymous]

I perhaps should also just echo what Archie2 had to say: I think this is a great system for a modest layout that is often operated solo and is never operated by more than two people. Go beyond that, and both DC-block and DCC are more appropriate.

[PRIO]

I read your reply and statements regarding your useage of an Aristocraft radio control system for your HO layout.  I was told by some that the Train enginner 5470 can be used on my DC Ho layout.  I have two main lines with two seperate power sources.  It is an old dual DC power pack one for each main.  Can I use the Aristocraft Train Engineer with an additonal receiver without purchasing any more power.  When I called Aristorcrat they were not much help.  They said I had to buy two 24v power sources, one  for each of my main lines.  I was hoping to use my old dual 12v power pack.  My layout is big, and I want to be able to walk around it with not a lot of hassle.  I still do things the old fashion way.   Thanks, Jim

[Doughless]

You need to ask yourself what type of operation you will have, multiple locomotives at a time or one at a time, or somewhere in between.

Crest systems work with HO and are wireless.  You can walk along with your train.  If your layout is spread out, you will want wireless.  When you talk about DCC, you need to talk about wireless systems to be comparable.  Up goes the price.  DCC systems can also use a tethered throttle, but then more wiring is needed (sort of like blocks in DC) and a tethered system is not as convenient as wireless.  Infrared wireless requires you to point the throttle in a certain direction I believe, which limits your movement, as opposed to Crest's RF wireless system.

If you are running multiple trains with multiple loco consists, like a club would, DCC is almost a necessity.  If you are a lone wolf operator running one or two trains at a time and have a layout large enough to walk along with the train, I think the Crest system is a better product than DCC and a whole lot cheaper.

Now, if you want sound and lighting control, there are some DC products that work, but DCC is probably what you want.  Again, wireless DCC systems, coupled with sound and decoder equipped locos, puts you up into a way different price point than DC and Crest.

There is/was a Crest HO system where you could put tiny receivers into each locomotive, plugged right into the decoder socket, where you could then get the multiple locomotive similarities of DCC.  Only needed two wires to the layout and you could control more locomotives independent of each other than you could mentally keep track of.  All done by simple RF frequencies and existing technology, instead of programmed pulses through the track like DCC.

Why in the world this system never took off I'll never know.  Perhaps Crest had the radio control train patent and the other manufactures couldn't get around it.  Don't know if that system does sound and lighting control either.  If that is the system you want, check about sound and lighting, if you care about that stuff.

[ATLANTIC CENTRAL]

I too use the Aristo Craft/Crest Train Engineer wireless throttles on my HO layout.

There are actually four different but related products:

The orginal Train Engineer, 27 mhz, 10 amp, now available as the #55470, 10 channel version is a track side wireless throttle with 10 channels on ten frequencies. In is usual application it powers the track and requires a seperate power supply. To correct some miss-information, this Train Engineer can not be used by putting a "reciever" on each track block and then moving trains from block to block. It simply does not work.

Aristo offers an onboard version of the 10 channel reciever for use in large scale. These recievers are too large for smaller scales.

There is 3 amp version known as the Basic Train Engineer with fewer frequencies.

There is the HO Train Engineer which uses onboard recievers.

There is the NEW Train Engineer Revolution which is 2.4Ghz and is designed for either onboard or trackside use in large scale. I believe Aristo is planning to offer HO recievers for the Revolution as well.

 I use the 10, 10 channel model for HO and have developed my own walk around cab selection system to assign the cab to the blocks while walking around the layout.

A great power supply to use with the Train Engineer are simple regulated 13.8 volt supplies sold to power CB radios in your home. 4 amp models can be bought in the Pyramid brand for $25 and work well for using the TE with HO or N scale.

As others mentioned, these systems do not support DCC sound control. So, if you want sound, go DCC.

BUT, if you want good reliable wireless control without sound, you may want to understand your options with the TE.

Let me conclude by saying a few things, being short on time right now, and knowing this response would be long, I only skimmed over the posts in this thread. Nigel has provided correct info, a lot of the other posters seem only partly informed. Please understand I have done extensive developement work with DC wiring for use with the Train Engineer in HO and have installed my system on one other layout beyond my own.

I will be happy to answer specific questions but at this moment cannot disect all of the posts, answer all the questions posed or correct all the mis information.

A search of this board will find some of my earlier posts about the use of the TE in small scales, and, both the Aristo forum and the Bachmann forum contain extensive posts on my work in using the TE in HO scale.

Properly intergrated into a well designed cab control system the Aristo Train Engineer can provide excelent control of your trains. Signaling, automatic route selection, automatic territory protection and more can all be wired into your layout. Walk around and dispatcher operation can be used on the same layout. 

The TE provides excelent speed control because its output is pulse width modulated full voltage DC, just like the output of a DCC decoder. Because of this constant lighting circuits work very well.

Feel free to post questions here or to send me a PM. Again you are incouraged to look up this topic on the Bachmann or Aristo forums and you can read about the complete developement of my control system using the TE.

Sheldon

[ATLANTIC CENTRAL]

PRIO

I read your reply and statements regarding your useage of an Aristocraft radio control system for your HO layout.  I was told by some that the Train enginner 5470 can be used on my DC Ho layout.  I have two main lines with two seperate power sources.  It is an old dual DC power pack one for each main.  Can I use the Aristocraft Train Engineer with an additonal receiver without purchasing any more power.  When I called Aristorcrat they were not much help.  They said I had to buy two 24v power sources, one  for each of my main lines.  I was hoping to use my old dual 12v power pack.  My layout is big, and I want to be able to walk around it with not a lot of hassle.  I still do things the old fashion way.   Thanks, Jim

Jim, please understand that Aristo is a large scale company. They do not really understand HO operation. what they where telling you is based on what garden railroaders do in large scale. Your dual pack will not work to power two TE recievers. You need to have seperate power supplies for each TE reciever, BUT you do not need their 24V ones for use with HO.

I use Pyramid 13.8v regulated suplies that sell for about $25 each. These work fine with the TE and provide the perfect voltage for HO.

You cannot put a reciever on each loop and run from loop to loop, it simply does not work. You need to have some sort of cab control like you use with your dual pack. I have developed a walk around cab control system for larger layouts. Its a little complex to explain in words, but not hard to do.

Send me a PM if your interested and I will send you some schematics.

Sheldon

[ATLANTIC CENTRAL]

Another point to clarify - CREST and Aristo Craft are and have always been the same product and company. Like Chevrolet is a division of GM, CREST is a division of Aristo Craft.

Sheldon

[ATLANTIC CENTRAL]

To all, keep in mind,

There are two completely different concepts being discussed here:

One is a wireless throttle that simply replaces your power pack, and still requires DC layout wiring. It does not require any modifications to DC locomotives. That is the orginal Train Engineer. That is what I use.

The other, the HO Train Engineer, is a onboard reciever based system similar to DCC, but with a direct radio link to the loco for the control information. There is currently only one version of this for HO, but a more advanced version of this is said to be in the works for the new REVOLUTION system. This is what a large percentage of large scale modelers use. Like DCC this only requires two wires to the track for power, and like DCC requires recievers in each loco.

Again your additional questions are welcome.

Sheldon

[EM-1]

I'm not sure how much the Aristo/Crest system costs, or anything about the size of the package, but for anohther approach, as far back as about 1975, RMC, and I think MR carried articles on adapting standard general useage or surface RC units for mounting in locos, using NiCad batteries for power.  Definitely doable down to HO, maybe not practical for N.  Today's radios and electronic speed controls are are much smaller than they were then.  In the US, and possibly Canada and Mexico, these radios are available in the 27 MHz, 49 MHz, and 75 MHz, and possibly 2.4 GHz bands.  The electronics, matching reciever and reversible model car ESC (Electronic Speed Control)  could be fairly easily mounted in a dummy A or B unit, a larger tender on a steam loco, or a freight or passenger car that would be a permanent front end car.  The system might even be mountable in a larger dummy of a modern diesel, such as a GE 8-40C, AC6000 type, FM H24-66 Trainmaster, or EMD SD70 types, although the original articles showed F-7s.  Main mod to the powered unit would be to insulate the motor from the frame and other power connections and wire it direct to the speed controller output.  Battery recharging and/or full voltage power application could be handled either through normal wheeled pick-up through a bridge rectifier or an external plug-in.

Suitable units could probably be obtained from low priced RC cars and boats, or purchased piecemeal from hobby shops.  I'd stay away from the newer brushless motors and their specific ESCs,.

If you try this method, remember to use one of the frequencies specified for surface control.  Do not use anything on one of the 72 MHz frequencies.  The FCC has reserved the 72 MHz band for aircraft use only, while 75 MHz is for surface applications, and the other two are for either.

[rrebell]

If they finish coming up with the new batteries (they are working on them) DCC will be dead as you will not need track voltage at all!!!!!!!!!!!

[pastorbob]

rrebell

If they finish coming up with the new batteries (they are working on them) DCC will be dead as you will not need track voltage at all!!!!!!!!!!!

Sounds good, but may not be so good in practice.  I own a large HO layout in my basement using DCC.

I also have a large scale garden railroad which uses battery power/radio control from a company in Australia I believe called RCS.  I really enjoy the freedom of movement on my garden railroad, not being tied to any type of control system, just turn on the loco(s) with a toggle switch concealed underneath, then aquiring the loco by radio and walk with it or sit and watch it.  All my diesels are USA brand.

But, the downside is the batteries don't give me more than two hours running time before its recharge time which also takes some time.  The battery packs are generally inside the diesel carbody, but I have a few box cars with battery packs behind the loco that plug in and provide another set of batteries and extended running time by a flip of a toggle.  But again, the downside is the time taken to charge the batteries and having them run down during an operating time.  I am sure in time improved batteries will come along but at what cost?

You pays you money and you takes your choice.

Bob

[ATLANTIC CENTRAL]

EM-1

I'm not sure how much the Aristo/Crest system costs, or anything about the size of the package,

EM-1, there is little reason to go to all that work, Aristo Craft has done it and the prices are reasonable.

The 10 channel, 10 amp Train Engineer, designed for trackside use retails for $240. The receiver is about the size of a small power pack. Onboard G scale receivers are about 4"x4".

The HO Train Engineer uses a transmitter that looks the same but is on 75 Mhz. It sells for $250 retail with one onboard receiver. 6 packs of receivers retail for $210.00 and are ready to wire up like a DCC decoder and are similar in size.

The NEW 2.4 Ghz Revolution sells for $300 and comes with a G scale onboard receiver that can also be used as a trackside receiver in any scale. I understand that smaller HO receivers are in developement.

All the onboard systems will allow the use of track power or battery power.

All of thes products are available and discounted the usual industry amounts at places like TrainWorld, etc.

I purchased my 8 Track Side 10 channel models before the recent price increase from Train World paying only about $130 each. And purchased suitable regulated power supplies for only $25.00 each.

Direct radio definately has a future in all scales, batteries may take a while, and my trackside control system also works well for those who do not want to modifiy their locos.

I have a developed a system of cab selection and turnout control that provides complete walk around operation using the Train Engineer.

Sheldon

[rrebell]

I don't know about that but Radioisotope batteries can last 10-20 years, and there is research bringing them to the home right now but they will be pricey, air powered (not a typo) last about 8 times currant batteries and will be with us in home size in 5 or less years, commercial versions of both already in production.

[Doughless]

enduringexp

I am modelling HO. the Crest CRE-55000 is called the HO Train Engineer. It is relatively new and built specifically for HO. I have not used DCC, and know very little about it, so I don't know how the two would compare. I will not be running my trains on someone else's track, and others won't be using mine, so compatibility with other layouts is not a concern. Ease of operation and simplicity of installation would be the key. Because the operation is built using R/F, I would think no special wiring or layout changes are required, but as with most things, I want to research it to death to be sure I make the right choice for me. If anyone is interested, the site is
http://www.aristocraft.com/catalog/crest/trainengineer/whitepaper/

I do not own a DCC system or a Crest system, so I am one of us who is only partially informed.  After reading this forum and other info about DCC, after a while, I tend to see patterns:  Comments focus on problems modelers have had with their systems, primarily caused not knowing enough about the system they were buying before they bought it.  With DCC, that's easy to do. Issues include: the need for boosters, or discovering the locomotives they own are power hogs, or their turnouts are incompatible, or they maybe now need a separate programming track or all locomotives will be programmed the same if on the mainline, programming CV's to really get the loco to behave the way they want, or discovering an annoying electronic buzzing noise after the decoder is installed, etc...  For somebody like you and me, there are many unknowns to DCC, and it seems like the only way to really know what you need is to first buy a system, then figure out solutions to issues as you go; issues you never conceived would be issues. I'm sure its wonderful, but for what I want, all of the features it offers is probably overkill. 

Judge for yourself how you plan to operate your layout.

If you are looking to independently control the speed of several locomotives, whether mu'd or not, over a distance that requires you to walk with the train, the Crest system with the little receivers sounds like it fits the bill better than DCC.  And if you only want to control a couple of locos, in separate blocked locations, like maybe having a dedicated industry or yard switcher, the more basic system seems like it would work well. And Sheldon mentioned that lighting is not an issue like I thought it would be, so that's another plus.

I'm sure there are unknowns with the system you are considering, but I tend to agree with what I think you are thinking.  The RF technology seems like a less complicated way to achieve independent throttle control, hence, the unknown issues should be fewer.

I wish more modelers would use Crest systems so the products would achieve the critical mass they need to be sustained and supported by Aristo-Craft.

 

 

[pastorbob]

I would not switch from DCC to Crest for a couple of reasons.  One, I don't want to see control systems fall into the hands of one company, like we have with MTH who wants to control all the shots, and second, also having a garden railroad, I felt the owner of the company has had a reputation in the G scale area of wanting to control all the marbles in his corner, something I would not be willing to contribute too.  They drug their feet too long in the large scale as far as standards, couplers (I use Kadee G gauge couplers and converting the cars and diesels was a royal pain) being a good example.

Bob

[rrebell]

Kadee was proprietary but their patent ran out.

[PRIO]

The question I had is simple, I apologize for not knowing a lot of the terminology.  I built a large detailed HO layout, and just finished wiring it with simple DC with two mains and I have an old dual 12v power pack.  I was going to use that, until it got difficult to only watch the train movement from one location.

I still want to keep it simple.  I want to be able to walk around the layout with remote control.  I will be the only one using the layout, and I want to run two main lines at once.

I am not into sound, but I want to put constant lighting in all my engines.  I have quite a few engines, none with sound.

Can I use the 12v DC dual power pack and get the Crest Train engineer containing one receiver and one transmitter, then get another receiver for my other main line.  Thanks, Jim