First Time Layout - Advice on magnetic uncouplers and remote switches??

[explorer626]

All, 

 Me and my sons (Age 10 and 8) are in the process of building the layout below (from www.layoutvision.com).  I wanted to see If I could get your wisdom on a few questions - I have searched other posts but had a hard time finding anything conclusive.

 1) How well do magnetic uncouplers really work, would you advise us to install them and if so where would should we place them on this layout?  Better just to go with manual uncoupling with kids? (reach was my only concern there).

2)  Remote turnout machines vs. manual - my first thought was manual switch machines are less expensive and it seems not that big of deal to reach over and move them...but just wanted to get the wisdom of you folks have been doing this a while to see if you would push us to use the remote turnouts (Using Atlas Code 100 turnouts and were planning on using the Atlas manual switch machines).   We will be starting out running two engines with from a Bachmann DCC Set my son got for Christmas.   Would be cool to have DCC-based turnout control but the options I have found there seem really $$.

 Thanks,

Phil

 

 

[Anonymous]

 Magnetic uncouplers work well, providing the couplers are properly installed and adjusted. As you  can use the permanent magnetic type, they are reasonable in terms of price. You should place an uncoupler in each siding, where you want to leave cars, but not necessarily on the main line.

Remote switch control is, IMHO, not necessary, unless you can´t reach  some of the switches. Actually, throwing switches by hand is prototypical and gives you a nice way of involving your sons. Caboose Industries has inexpensive ground throws which are easy to install. If you plan on using Atlas switches, you should select the spring-loaded type of ground throw.DCC control of turnouts is a fairly costly matter and should not really be an issue with a layout of the size you plan to have.

Hope this helps a little.

[Fazby]

I love Kadee delayed uncoupling.

Wherever you place them (experiment a bit and check out the Kadee suggestions) test the 'fit' so that when you have the car spotted you dont have another set of couplers over the uncoupler. With several car lengths, or train lengths, this can be a surprise.

Use the kadee jig for gluing the magnet down. I remove ties, and glue to the roadbed.

 

 

[TomDiehl]

Manual uncoupling with 8 and 10 year olds is probably a bad idea, especially in HO scale. Kadee sells both electomagnets and permanent magnets, and the permanent ones come in two types, surface and under the ties. For the young ones, I'd suggest getting the surface mounted permanent magnets, they'll be easier for them to see and learn to use the delayed uncoupling feature of the Kadee couplers. You can use the electomagnets any place you need to put them on a main line. Unfortunately, these take a bit of planning because you need to plan the location and cut a hole before laying the track. Looking at your plan, I'd suggest two electromagnets and 5 permanent magnets.

As far as manual switches, I wouldn't suggest using them for the same reason. You have to be careful of the buildings and scenery when reaching for a manual switch machine.

[Paulus Jas]

hi Phil,

so many men, so many opinions. Your sons are still young and (un)coupling and throwing switches works best when it's done close. The three switches in the yard are a bit of a problem.

You could use remote or DCC control for these three and ground throws for the others. (Or build the yard on an extension at the south-west or north-west corner.)

Paul

[Doc in CT]

I would think remote rather than DCC (you have to enter the address of the turnout before you can activate it).  With DPDT switches and LEDs you can make an "illustrated" control panel for the yard and any other turnouts.

[Texas Zepher]

explorer626

1) How well do magnetic uncouplers really work, would you advise us to install them and if so where would should we place them on this layout?  Better just to go with manual uncoupling with kids? (reach was my only concern there).

They work really well if the locomotives are really smooth running, trackwork is flawless, and every coupler is perfectly tuned (height, centering, springyness in both the knuckle and centering).  Performance goes geometrically down from there.  Most layouts I operate on have removed the magnets or at best we ignore them.   We use bamboo skewers and the like.   One layout I operate on has even cut off all the little curved wires that hang down from the knuckle to make maintenance easier and the cars look better.

2)  Remote turnout machines vs. manual - my first thought was manual switch machines are less expensive and it seems not that big of deal to reach over and move them...but just wanted to get the wisdom of you folks have been doing this a while to see if you would push us to use the remote turnouts (Using Atlas Code 100 turnouts and were planning on using the Atlas manual switch machines).   We will be starting out running two engines with from a Bachmann DCC Set my son got for Christmas.   Would be cool to have DCC-based turnout control but the options I have found there seem really.

I don't understand what some people find cool about DCC-based turnout control.  Personally, If I want to push a bunch of buttons "video game" style - I have a video game console that I can go an press lots of buttons on.   The only reason I can envision a real usefulness for DCC turnout control would be automatic route routing.  That is, on a large layout one could program in a trains route and then set all the turnouts for that route with one command.  With transponding from the locomotives the computer could set its route right in front of it allowing a single operator to control a complex system alone.    Most of the layouts that I operate on have remote control turnouts where one cannot easily reach them, or the scenery is so delicate they don't want people reaching into it to throw a turnout.   But in all of these situations the turnout control is a simple switch right there in the isle next to where the turnout is.  There is one exception and that is a club layout where there is a large control panel that an operator sits at and controls all the turnouts in the whole yard - like a prototypical yard tower operator.    In general I think it is great time waster to be standing right next to a turnout, have to remember it's number, push a bunch of buttons on the throttle to call it up, push the button to change it, then push the buttons to reacquire the locomotive.   Just reach over and flip the switch.

Having said that - on a really sophisticated system one can have all of the above.  Remote control, DCC control, and local control.  Of course it is pretty expensive.

[markpierce]

Sir Madog

 Remote switch control is, IMHO, not necessary, unless you can´t reach  some of the switches. Actually, throwing switches by hand is prototypical and gives you a nice way of involving your sons.

The same applies for hand/manual uncoupling.

Mark

[Tim the Stick]

My suggestion with an 8 and a 10 year old is go all manual untill they have a respect for "replacing" couplers and switches.  Once you have the switches knocked around once or twice and have at least 15 couplers broken or springs blown to the wind, they'll be ready to run slowly and treat the layout with care.  From there, you can now install remote switch machines, wire them in, and lay the magnetic uncouplers and tune the couplers to work smoothly.  I see no sence in setting coupler heights, bending wires, and setting magnets if the first time into the yard your sons smash the couplers into the bumpers and make the magnets useless untill the coupler is fixed or readjusted, or replaced. 

I've got a 10 year old on my layout right now.  (roommates son)  We're at about 9 couplers total, 2 switches, and a set of end rails on an Athern GP 38-2.  And that's in 3 weekends.

Now he knows how to throw a switch, how to stop before the bumpers, and how to pick up a loco without breaking it.  And that too, was 3 weekends.  I'll be laying the magnets on mine next weekend.  And as for where to put them?  Remember this:  If you use the "delay" uncouplers, once uncoupler at the entrace of the yard should serve the whole yard.  Pull up, open the delay, and push the car in. It'll stay loose till you move away.  BUT, you have to be "straight", or the magets won't pull the couplers away to the delay position.  And by straight, I mean loco AND car.  You can play and find out what I mean.

[BigG]

Hi,  Have you considered using something like an automotive choke cable with a knob or lever at the fascia end for controlling the switches? They're cheap, and can be adapted to do just about anything. Their length means the operator's end can be wherever you wish. Some can be used in twist mode as well as push/pull; making them so you cannot over-throw the switch and cause switch damage sounds like a decent idea where there are youngsters operating.  I find Atlas magnets can overheat quickly, so a CD unit may be in order if you run into the problem of slow fingers.

As for uncoupling, be aware that a permanent magnet placed in your mainline will try to uncouple anything that goes by, especially if the train is a bit jerky or slow. For that reason, I'd recommend permanent mags only on the sidings, with electromagnets on the mainline. 

   Good luck, and welcome to the hobby.

 Great to see fresh new faces.  Have fun,   George

 

[LooseClu]

Along the same line but with a step up in both cost and fun factor (for kids big & small) is the Humpyard lever switch control.  They cost half what the fancy electronic switch motors cost and even I could get them functioning without reading more than their web page www.humpyard.com . I've installed 6 of them on one side of my U- shaped layout and have enjoyed flawless operation ever since.  The levers maintain pressure and click when fully thrown so they will work well with Atlas turnouts.  I don't work for them (or anyone else!) and have no connection with them other than I am a happy customer.  I've been touting them a lot here of late and figured I'd better say that                                                                        Roy