Model Power used to make a line of "Old Style" passenger cars -- around 50 scale feet -- which will handle 18" curves with ease -- although they require a lot of extra weight to come up to NMRA standard. While I don't see these currently listed on the Walthers web site, you might be able to find them at a train show or in stock at your LHS.
Bachmann also has Spectrum heavyweight passenger coaches with pivoting body mounted couplers. While designed for 22" curves, these will handle an 18" curve if you take it slow and have good trackwork.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
I don't have my Walther's catalog with me right now, but it seems to me there are a number of prototypically short passenger cars of early 1900s vintage available that can be operated on 18" curves. I have a number of MDC varnish that seems to me have a prototype length of around 62'-68'. Should look OK behind an early F-7 or earlier, or an early Geep, better looking behind something like a 4-6-2, 4-6-0, 4-4-2, or 2-6-2 steamer. And added weight over the trucks can't hurt on shorter trains.
It might be nice to be able to run scale 85' cars on 34"+ radius curves, but I'm afraid that is not an option for most of us. I'd personally love to be able to put a string of 96' Tobacco Hogshead cars around a scale 20 degree curve (that's what, 38"R?), but I don't ever see myself having enough room to do more than run the old Ambroid Tobacco kit I built around a 26"R curve, and I had to notch the underframe to do that. And I bashed a three unit articulated diner from 3 Athearn Blue box kits, and the minimum it can operate on is maybe 24".
Life doesn't operate as smoothly as a reality or Soap Opera TV show.
I know I might get some flack for this, but "tweaking" cars to go around radius' they SHOULDN'T has been the thing I do best. And as for 18 inches with passenger cars, let me suggest the following:
Yes, the Athern Streamlines will work, however... You can try the following ideas and run with them if you so choose. I would try and find a set of the old "Blue Box" Athern Streamlines, the "kits" that come in the old blue box instead of "ready to run". Some assembly required, your kid can help you put them together. My suggestions:
-Go with 4. No more, no less.-Use an F series diesel (the 8 wheel rounded nose 1950's era Streamliner) for power.-run the following combination of cars: SHORT baggage car, coach, dome observation, streamline observation (with the rounded off tail).-add a few extra ounces of weight to each car, and keep the weight low and towards the ends.-the short baggage car should be fine, but the other cars will need slightly longer than stock coupler shanks. Check your local hobby store and get horn hooks with longer shafts. This will open the distance between cars and make the transition a little smoother.-swap over to metal wheels. This will add a little weight down low, and make for a smother roll. Start with the same diameter wheels as stock, and if you have issues, go down and up one size untill they run smooth.
People said I couldn't run 86 foot high cubes on an 18 inch curve. I did it just to prove them wrong, but I had 10 hours in each car tweaking them to oblivion. I found wheel size is the BIG difference. Don't go so small that the truck has no clearance, and don't go so big as the wheels interphere with the underside of the car when the truck is turned at max left/right. On my 86 footers, I went with a 28 inch wheel (in scale size) and a 3 mm longer coupler shank.
Pretty much any passenger car with talgo trucks (ones that have the couplers mounted to the truck rather then the body of the car) will work. May not look exactly right but if all you care about is not having the cars derail then you'll be fine.
What I mean by not looking right or correct is that if you look at pictures of a "real passenger car" you will notice diaphragms between each car. These looked like bellows and were made of various materials over the years. There purpose was to seal the connection from car to car therefore making it safer for passengers to move from one car to another. If you run a long car or what is referred to as a Heavy weight car, long with six axles you will notice that the cars will swing out around the curves expanding the distance between the tow cars to what would be impossible wiht a real lassenger train. Hence the reason those types of trucks were created by model companies. To date I have never known of a prototype "real railroad" who ever had any such truck on a passenger car. So they were created for the exact reason why you posted your question so you could run their cars on pretty much any size curve with in reason.
One problem you will have with running long cars such as heavy weights if you don't address it is the number or size of your turnouts. Typically long cars do not run well on anything smaller then a #6 turnout. Yes you can run them across #4's but I think it safe to say it's a much better idea to run them across #6 and above turnouts.
Trust me this may all sound like a bunch of who ha to you right now but if not for nothing else this hobby will give you and education and expand your knowledge of model railroading as well as how and what real railroads did and do today.
Sorry but there is no hope for you know as you've posted your first of may question s to the board so now your officially one of us. Welcome aboard, enjoy the hobby your going to have a blast.
Thank you to everyone for the amazing feedback! I really appreciate all of the details and all of the thought that went into your answers. I think that I understand far more about this issue than I ever thought I possibly could.
I am thrilled to have joined this hobby!
First of all, Welcome to the Hobby!!!
Rivarossi & IHC 85 scale foot passenger cars will have no problems going around 18"radius curves. I know, I've done it! The couplers are attached to the trucks & swing with the trucks going around curves.
The Walthers Budd 85 scale foot cars right out of the box, will go around 22" radius curves, I know, I've done that too!
Just to let you know, I used Atlas 22" radius sectional track for this to make sure the curve was as close to 22" as possible
The Athearn BlueBox passenger cars, piece of cake!. Not to sure of the newer ones, haven't bought any of those yet.
Yes, it is true, longer cars will work better on larger radius curves, but they will work on the smaller ones as well.
On my current layout, I went as large a curve as possible to make sure my autoracks will transverse them. These required 24" as advertised on the Walthers box.
Hope this helps
Gordon
Brought to you by the letters C.P.R. as well as D&H!
K1a - all the way
I'd say those little Model die casting Overton 34" cars are great for tight radii.Somebody also used to make a short set of smooth side cars too if you like deisel over steam. BILL
Actually in my experience, the length of the car has less to do with it than whether the couplers are body mounted or truck mounted. For example my old Rivarossi 80' cars have no problem on 22" radius curves, but the newer Walthers/Rivarossi 60' cars with body mounted couplers won't.
Athearn heavyweight or streamline cars have "talgo" truck mounted couplers and in several cases are about 10' shorter than the real cars they're based on. They are designed to run with no problems down to 18" radius curves. Con-cor makes streamlined 72' cars that would look OK on 22" radius curves, but even their full length 85' cars should take 22"R or even 18"R curves. You won't be able to add working diaphragms or switch to body-mounted couplers however.
I wouldn't move up to 24"R expecting you to be able to run Walthers cars even though they say that's the minimum radius, many folks have reported trouble on 24"R or even larger curves. Generally if you want body-mounted couplers and diaphragms you'll need around 30"R or larger.
Good info-stuff guys!
Conemaugh Road & Traction circa 1956
I have a set of these Rivarossi cars:
They are a "medium" length car, but they go around my 18-inch radius curves just fine. These cars come with specially mounted "swing" couplers which let them make these tight turns.
The cars go for about $30 each. I've added lights and passengers to mine, but they do come with an interior. There isn't a lot of choice in road name, but they do come in "undecorated" so you can get decals for your home road.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
So, I re-measured the radius and it turns out I was incorrect. It is actually a 22" radius track that we have. Not 18". Based on what has been written above, this seems to change the game quite significantly, but is it enough (up above 24" is mentioned a lot). I will do some calculations based on above but is the 22" forgiving enough to at least run some of the passenger coaches such as the Athearn Streamline series (for example)?
fwrightshift to models of 19th Century passenger cars. Most of these are significantly shorter, averaging about 7" actual length. These will do just fine on 18" radius curves. This is the path I have taken.
Early cars as fwright mentioned;
http://www.roundhousetrains.com/Search/Default.aspx?SearchTerm=Overton&CatID=THRP
http://www.roundhousetrains.com/Search/Default.aspx?SearchTerm=50'+Overland&CatID=THRP
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
jfmooreHello, Can anybody recommend any passenger coaches that would work with 18" radius tracks? I have read lots of posts talking about how minimums should be 22-24" radius but for now I am kind of stuck with 18" and my son has a lot of interest in passenger coaches. At first I thought the Athearn Streamline coaches (ATH79085) might work, but I am told no way.
Hello,
Can anybody recommend any passenger coaches that would work with 18" radius tracks? I have read lots of posts talking about how minimums should be 22-24" radius but for now I am kind of stuck with 18" and my son has a lot of interest in passenger coaches. At first I thought the Athearn Streamline coaches (ATH79085) might work, but I am told no way.
Others can provide more accurate information on particular brands than I. The older manufacturers of passenger cars generally made a line of "shorties", which were shorter than scale length, specifically to allow them to go around 18" radius curves. I thought (could be wrong) Athearn passenger cars - both heavyweight and streamline - fell into this group. IIRC, Con-Cor also made a line of shorties that may still be available.
You are up against a couple of hard realities.
A couple of solutions:
1) buy some 22" radius track to replace what came in the train set. The oval will still fit in a 4ft table width.
2) shift to models of 19th Century passenger cars. Most of these are significantly shorter, averaging about 7" actual length. These will do just fine on 18" radius curves. This is the path I have taken.
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
Chief Engineer, Wiper, Bottle Washer, and jack of all trades for
Picture Gorge & Western Railway
Port Orford & Elk River Railway & Navigation Co
....modeling foggy coastal Oregon, where it's always 1900....
hi,
we work with ratio's. A 1:3 ratio means you have to multiply the length of your longest car by 3 to get the appropriate radius.
A 1:5 ratio is needed for hands off (un)coupling.
A 1:4 ratio is needed for good looking
A 1: 2.5 or 1:3 ratio is the compromise most of us have to live with.
A 1:2 ratio is pushy against the technical limits.
So multiply by 2.5 and by 3 and see if you can fit those radii in.
When your son has 10 inch long coach (HO) the radius you can use is in the 25 to 30 inch range. (give and take an inch, a 24" radius is considered the minimum for coaches)
Full length modern auto racks and coaches are 1 feet long, so they will do well on a 30" to 36"radius.
But you will have to consider switches as well. Longer cars need longer switches. And even longer when crossovers and S-curves are used.
As a rule of thumb: I devide the prototypical length by 10 for a switch in a crossover ( and go one or two number(s) down for a single switch).
A 50 feet car needs a 18 radius and #5 switch in a crossover and a #4 single switch.
A 70 feet car needs a 24"radius and #7 switch in a crossover and a #6 single switch.
A 90 feet car needs a 30" radius and a #9 or # 7switch.
Pulling a train usually is no problem, once they start pushing a cut of cars you will be glad you have set some standards.
Paul
I am very new to model railroading courtesy of "santa" delivering my son's first train set this past Christmas. In a few short days I am finding myself drawn more and more into this hobby. This site and forum are great! During my brief introduction to this hobby I have stumbled across an issue that I can't seem to find good answers to via Google and even some basic searches of this forum. I am wondering if somebody can help me. Here is my issue:
Can anybody help?