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Need advise on ballast adhesion

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  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Sebring FL
  • 842 posts
Need advise on ballast adhesion
Posted by floridaflyer on Thursday, November 12, 2009 5:52 PM

Getting ready to ballast some of my layout. I will be using Smith & Sons stone, but I'm up in the air about whether to use white glue or matte medium to adhere the stone. What are the advantages and disdavantages of each. thanks for the help.

  • Member since
    January 2001
  • From: SE Minnesota
  • 6,847 posts
Posted by jrbernier on Thursday, November 12, 2009 6:33 PM

Diluted White Glue

  • Pro - Cost is inexpensive
  • Con - Dries hard, and transmits 'noise'

Matte Medium

  • Pro - Does not transmit noise(dries to a rubber consistancy)
  • Con - Higher cost(Woodland Scenics 'Scenic Cement is diluted matte medium)

  Apply your ballast 'dry', then mist it with cheap 71% isopropyl alcohol(I get mine at Walmart).  I use a cheap perfume mister available at Walmart or Target.  I then use an eye dropper to dribble the matte medium(dilute it with water at about a 1 to 1 ratio) on the ballast.  Even a 1:2 mix will work fine.  You will have the best results with 'real' rock ballast(like Smith & Sons/Highball/Arizonal Rock & Mineral).  The Woodland Scenics stuff many times is just ground up walnut shell material and 'floats' when you mist or apply the matte medum/glue. 

Jim

Modeling BNSF  and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin

  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Vancouver Island, BC
  • 23,330 posts
Posted by selector on Thursday, November 12, 2009 8:25 PM

I won't claim a ton of experience, but I have ballasted two different layouts.  I used rinsed beach sand for my ballast.  I used yellow carpenter's glue, but diluted to a ratio, in favour of the water, of about 5/1.  Also, I did not soak the ballast until the solution was running in lakes out the bottom edges of the groomed ballast as some seem to say is the way to do it.  Instead, after an inital dribble of about 50/50 isopropyl alcohol and water, to put the ballast to sleep, I dribble just enough of the glue solution to make a hardened shell maybe 1/4" thick.  This is not to say that the solution doesn't also penetrate deeper, but I desire a less monolithic ballast for two reasons: as explained above, I don't want it to resonate with the passage of rolling items over it, and I also want, at times, to have an easy go of wetting it to lift the track for any reason.  I don't know how long it takes to soften up a deeply penetrated and hardened ballast of any depth, but I can soften up mine in minutes and pry up rails that are giving newly introduced engines and tenders some trouble....as I have had to do a number of times.

-Crandell

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • 16 posts
Posted by PRIO on Friday, November 13, 2009 8:29 PM

I am going to start to ballast a large layout.  I had heard of a powdered glue in a crystal like form that you can mix with the ballast stone.  Once the stone is spread out (with crystalized glue), you use an alcohol, detergent and water mix than mist it.  Has anybody heard of that method.  It seems its less messy than some of the others.  ex:  white glue,  matte medium.   

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • 1,168 posts
Posted by dgwinup on Saturday, November 14, 2009 2:45 AM

Yes, I use that method.  I use Weldwood Resin Glue.  It's a powdered resin meant for use with wood.

 I mix the resin glue and ballast, 20-30% glue to 70-80% ballast.  Spread the ballast taking time to get it properly in place.  Use a very fine sprayer to spray wet water and thoroughly soak the ballast/glue.  Water activates the resin glue.  It will dry hard overnight.  Once dry, it is unaffected by water.  If you have any clumps of glue, grind them up.  Even used dried glue can be ground up and re-used!

The ballast/glue mixture is what holds my track to the cork roadbed.  The track is pinned in place with straight pins or track nails, then ballasted.  When dry, the pins or nails are removed.  Don't know if this will work with other than cork roadbed.

My track has been down for over 4 years (maybe 5!  I don't remember!).  Never had a section come loose.  Had to replace some track and had no difficulty pulling up the old track, but it was messy!  No real damage to the roadbed, but there were particles of ballast that had to be sanded off the roadbed to get it smooth again.

I thought I had sort of 'invented' the process back in the 1970's, but in reading some older issues of Model Railroader of Railroad Model Craftsman from the 1950's or 1960's, I ran across an article about using resin glue on ballast.  So much for 'invention'!  LOL

Darrell, quiet...for now

Darrell, quiet...for now

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